It is your imagination that I don't want to admit that. JVR is mediocre this year? While the Flyers young players are not what one would consider elite, they have a strong stable of very good players to build around. Also one player, Hart, has a chance to be an elite goaltender in the NHL. What top end talent do you suggest the Flyers taget?
- MJL

Lets stick to the veteran forwards on this team because that is where the bulk on the cap money is going. Is Giroux elite? I would say at this stage no he is not. He is a good player but not a player you build around. JVR had a hot start to the season but you are now seeing the JVR we all know and love once again. He has rarely put together a consistent season yet, even in this shortened season. Hayes is nothing short of a disaster at this point in time. He is far from elite. Jake is Jake, he has some good moments but the bad far outweighs the good with him. Couturier is the closest thing to elite this team has.

In the offseason if I were Fletcher, I would sign Dougie Hamilton and trade for either Ellis or Ekholm. If that means I give up Patrick, Ghost, Myers, Haag or Sanheim so be it, because I would be fine going into next season with Hamilton, Provorov, Ekholm, York, and two younger players.

On offense, I would steer Seattle to pick up JVR, and I would trade Jake to whomever wants him and cover 2M-25M in salary for the remainder of this term. Then I would try to sign or trade for a top 6 winger, and let the kids fill in the remaining spots.

You see, I give you specifics, not insults!

Question: What's the hockey equivalent/comparable of baseball's WAR metric?

I know hockey has some advanced zone time/possession/chance creation data analysis, but is there any sort of omnibus equation that's been formulated? I know WAR is far from perfect, but it's been handy to cultivate my understanding of contributions by individual baseball players and consequentially learn other neat metrics like FIP and WRC+.
- countreeman28

https://hockey-graphs.com/category/war

https://www.pensionplanpu...-gar-dawson-sprigings-nhl

Ekholm is our lord and saviour. 🙏🙏🙏
- Tomahawk

Ekholm! Ekholm! Ekholm! Ekholm! Maybe Ellis! Ekholm! Ekholm! Ekholm!

These are good examples. I believe the real reason they are winning franchises is because they continued to draft and develop even after getting the top level players. You can't discount the rest of the talent on TBL. Almost all of the core came from the draft and very good trades by Yzerman.

The fact still remains that you have about 8 years of really bad teams, 7-10 years of mediocre teams and 1 championship. Sure both teams could win future Cups but that is not a guarantee. How many teams did not go that route and won at least one Championship? The Kings, Blues and Caps are valid examples.

If you are asking if it is easier to win with Crosby than with Alexander Daigle, the answer is of course it is. Just hoping you will land a Crosby simply by being bad for an extended period of time is bad business in my view. See the Oilers, Coyotes, Florida , Buffalo, etc.
- mickel25

I am sorry I did not see this till now.

Of course you have to draft well, develop well and so on. I take that as a given.

In the part you bolded, you would of course have to be willing to live with some sucky years without a guarantee. If you are not willing to pay the price, fair enough. That's consistent. But it seems to me that for a franchise like the Flyers, who are perpetual bridesmaids, and never brides for decades, there is some cause for paying the price to be the biggest star in the yearly show.

And don't look at the failure rate for comparing strategies. Look at success rates.

Lets say you have a disease. Two choices:

1. Do not undergo treatment. Disease will kill you with 100% probability.
2. Treat it. Disease will be cured, but with 50% probability, and the treatment is painful.

I look upon death as not winning a cup, the Flyers as following step 1, and the draft high teams following step 2. Probabilities are arbitrary to make the point.

Like I said previously, you are proving once again how poorly you know players on other teams. Larsson while not a true top pairing player, is a very good defenseman and an underrated player who also happens to be RH. He would help the Flyers no doubt and you wouldn't have to give up a single player asset to add him. Like you would with Ekholm or Ellis.
- MJL

yes, but I would be paying over $4M for a 3rd paring defenseman ... why on Earth would I want to do that?

https://hockey-graphs.com/category/war

https://www.pensionplanpu...-gar-dawson-sprigings-nhl
- Tomahawk

Thank you!

Like I said previously, you are proving once again how poorly you know players on other teams. Larsson while not a true top pairing player, is a very good defenseman and an underrated player who also happens to be RH. He would help the Flyers no doubt and you wouldn't have to give up a single player asset to add him. Like you would with Ekholm or Ellis.
- MJL

Larson also has to want to come here does he not? He has been losing in Edmonton, why on earth would he come here outside of a silly contract offer.

Ekholm! Ekholm! Ekholm! Ekholm! Maybe Ellis! Ekholm! Ekholm! Ekholm!
- jd250

Jones! Jones! Jones! Maybe Hamilton! Probably Savard/Larsson. Jones! Jones! Jones!

Larson also has to want to come here does he not? He has been losing in Edmonton, why on earth would he come here outside of a silly contract offer.
- login

For the same reasons that Hayes and JvR signed here?

Chuck says we’ve had a rough month but we still have a good hockey team. Lol

Looks like I’ll be rooting for another team next year. Sigh

I am sorry I did not see this till now.

Of course you have to draft well, develop well and so on. I take that as a given.

In the part you bolded, you would of course have to be willing to live with some sucky years without a guarantee. If you are not willing to pay the price, fair enough. That's consistent. But it seems to me that for a franchise like the Flyers, who are perpetual bridesmaids, and never brides for decades, there is some cause for paying the price to be the biggest star in the yearly show.

And don't look at the failure rate for comparing strategies. Look at success rates.

Lets say you have a disease. Two choices:

1. Do not undergo treatment. Disease will kill you with 100% probability.
2. Treat it. Disease will be cured, but with 50% probability, and the treatment is painful.

I look upon death as not winning a cup, the Flyers as following step 1, and the draft high teams following step 2. Probabilities are arbitrary to make the point.
- PT21

In your little scenario you fail to allow for the Flyers doing nothing this year and still eventually winning cup. No treatment but not death.

For the same reasons that Hayes and JvR signed here?
- Tomahawk

maybe maybe not. Maybe he wants to go to a winning team.

To you (frank)ers who are eager to trade Coots.... Jones + Laine for Coots + Provorov in the offseason, would you do it?

To you (frank)ers who are eager to trade Coots.... Jones + Laine for Coots + Provorov in the offseason, would you do it?
- Tomahawk

No. Laine is not the kind of player you win with. Jones is better than Provy right now. However, no GM in the league would trade Coots for Laine.

No. Laine is not the kind of player you win with. Jones is better than Provy right now. However, no GM in the league would trade Coots for Laine.
- mickel25

Think of it as Coots for Jones, Laine for Provorov

(I personally don't like Laine btw, just throwing this out there)

To you (frank)ers who are eager to trade Coots.... Jones + Laine for Coots + Provorov in the offseason, would you do it?
- Tomahawk

We aren’t going to trade the one good d man we have. Coots and prospects, I’d think about it.

Does Jones want out of Columbus, why would they move him? All it’s rumored that Liane only wants to go to LA so it’s a pipe dream either way

So it's as easy to win in the playoffs as the regular season? Somebody should tell Connor McDavid.
- mickel25

Who said anything about winning? We were talking about production. This little picture will clarify the difference between the 2 players we are discussing. I chose the window since McDavid came to the league (2016 through now)

yes, but I would be paying over $4M for a 3rd paring defenseman ... why on Earth would I want to do that?
- jd250

Larsson is having a good year. Probably looking for 5.5 to 6 mil a year...that being said ....this has Andrew Macdonald written all over it. Larsson not anywhere close to as good or as well rounded as Ekholm or Ellis. Hopefully Fletch doesn’t go down that rabbit hole. Having another over paid vet is not good for the future.

We aren’t going to trade the one good d man we have. Coots and prospects, I’d think about it.

Does Jones want out of Columbus, why would they move him? All it’s rumored that Liane only wants to go to LA so it’s a pipe dream either way
- hereticpride

'Prospects' doesn't get it done. Jackets are in the same situation as the Flyers. Looking for a shake up to win soon.

Doesn't seem like anybody wants to stay in Columbus. Word they're gonna axe Torts to try to rectify that. In the meantime, assuming Jones will go to UFA, so they'd better trade him before they lose him for nothing.

He's a better option than Ekholm for a variety of reasons. One, he won't cost you a 1st round pick and an elite level prospect. Two, he won't affect the expansion draft.
I like Ellis but don't want to take on that term and his durability gives me pause.

You insulted yourself with your post.
- MJL

While interesting. Who says he wants to sign here? Do you not think others may drive the price up. Are you willing to give him 6x7.

In your little scenario you fail to allow for the Flyers doing nothing this year and still eventually winning cup. No treatment but not death.
- mickel25

Look at point 1:

Again:

1. Do not undergo treatment. Disease will kill you with 100% probability.

For the same reasons that Hayes and JvR signed here?
- Tomahawk

We handing out another 7 mil dollar contract?

Chuck says we’ve had a rough month but we still have a good hockey team. Lol

Looks like I’ll be rooting for another team next year. Sigh
- hereticpride

Is this on vid anywhere or is it best to ignore it, like the rest of the season aside from when trades and firings happen?

To you (frank)ers who are eager to trade Coots.... Jones + Laine for Coots + Provorov in the offseason, would you do it?
- Tomahawk

For me, definitely no.

Who said anything about winning? We were talking about production. This little picture will clarify the difference between the 2 players we are discussing. I chose the window since McDavid came to the league (2016 through now)



- PT21

Ok now do Giroux's production from his first few trips to the playoffs. Giroux from Age 22-24 in the playoffs. 44 games 19 goals, 31 assist 50 points. Seems pretty good...no?

McDavid in the playoffs from age 20 thru 23 17 games 18 points. According to the stats Giroux was the better player in his early 20's.