Team Canada says otherwise.
- Robert's Plant

When Giroux produces in the regular season, he is/(still is) a good/very good player.

When Giroux fails in the post-season, he needs better players around him.

Except the team he is on is the same in both statements!

Can't make it up.

Your first trade scenario has the Isles taking on future dead money on the cap. With a flat cap, teams don't want to do that. They also take on the risk there. Why is it so hard for you to understand that no matter what dream scenario you invent, players with high cap hits and future years are not good candidates for trade deadline deals?
- MJL

So, someone finally re-read.

But still not fully. Because my 2nd trade scenario uses the words "same incentives", which means that JVR would also be traded with 1 mil odd withheld.

And yeah, there are many things teams don't like to do, but do because the benefits outweigh the cost. 1-1.5 mil withheld at most for 1-3 year at most would likely not be a determining factor for a trade with contending aspirations.

It was coming? LOL. The Bolts won the Cup 11 years after drafting Stamkos. 10 years after drafting Hedman. The season before they got knocked out in the first round.
- MJL

They also made trades to get there and didn’t just hand out big contracts to ufa. But we’re selective in their needs. Once hedman was identified they made trades to acquire defenseman around him yes. They didn’t lie to themselves about what they needed. They had speed and skill added toughness to go over the top. We have skill. Lacking speed and toughness.

This is what provie needs. What nisky brought. So not everything is on his shoulders.

Word is Brent flahr was at the coyotes game.
- login

Goligoski

Goligoski
- corduroy

Oh my.

This is more evidence of how poorly you know defenseman on other teams.
- MJL

Oh, I know, you are right, he is such a better option than Ekholm, of course! LOL!

You can't even answer the question. Tell me why the Flyers want a 28 year old Larsson when they can get a much defenseman in Ekholm or even Ellis? Why is Larsson a better fit, because he is a RHD? He doesn't have much offensive upside. He has good size, but for what he brings and what he costs, I would pass. Prove me wrong instead of insulting me!

Is there any way to watch the fletcher presser live?

When Giroux produces in the regular season, he is/(still is) a good/very good player.

When Giroux fails in the post-season, he needs better players around him.

Except the team he is on is the same in both statements!

Can't make it up.


- PT21

I'll dummy this down for you. The playoffs and the regular season are very different. More intensity and a higher quality of difficulty against better teams. Producing in the regular season is far different from producing in the playoffs. Don't you often make that point?

Can't make it up.

Goligoski
- corduroy

That would be a pure rental .. no way!

Might as well give VdV another go as well...
- Glak18

VDV and Hak are a package deal, sorry.

Oh, I know, you are right, he is such a better option than Ekholm, of course! LOL!

You can't even answer the question. Tell me why the Flyers want a 28 year old Larsson when they can get a much defenseman in Ekholm or even Ellis? Why is Larsson a better fit, because he is a RHD? He doesn't have much offensive upside. He has good size, but for what he brings and what he costs, I would pass. Prove me wrong instead of insulting me!
- jd250

He's a better option than Ekholm for a variety of reasons. One, he won't cost you a 1st round pick and an elite level prospect. Two, he won't affect the expansion draft.
I like Ellis but don't want to take on that term and his durability gives me pause.

You insulted yourself with your post.

Might as well give VdV another go as well...
- Glak18

I wonder if Chris Stewart would come out of retirement?

So, someone finally re-read.

But still not fully. Because my 2nd trade scenario uses the words "same incentives", which means that JVR would also be traded with 1 mil odd withheld.

And yeah, there are many things teams don't like to do, but do because the benefits outweigh the cost. 1-1.5 mil withheld at most for 1-3 year at most would likely not be a determining factor for a trade with contending aspirations.
- PT21

You can manufacture whatever dream scenario's you want. You don't understand the cap. Starting with what kind of players teams are looking for at the deadline. Not to mention that a team has to have the cap space in future years to take on a player with future years on his contract.

The point is that you can have those top players but you still have to build around them to get there. It's not as easy as draft a top player and voila, as one poster consistently thinks. Many don't get there at all. So you can look at Giroux's playoff numbers but really when you're a one line team and not surrounded by much, teams can shut you down. You have to have patience. I understand fans are upset and frustrated. This season has sucked. You aren't going to trade your way or sign UFA"s to get there. You supplement with that, not build with it.
- MJL

But what you don't seem to want to admit is the Flyers top end talent that you rightly say you would typically build around, is NOT top end talent when you compare them to the rest of the league. So you have $30M in cap space tied up in 4 mediocre forwards in Giroux (who is declining, you cannot possible think otherwise), Hayes, JVR and Jake. If the Flyers were wiser with their cap space and signed true top end talent instead of JVR and Hayes, then they could afford to be more patient with their younger players. But right now its a dumpster fire because, other than Farabee, the younger players are not performing and the so-called top-end talented players are no where close to being legitimate top end players.

The Flyers in the off season need to find real top end talent to supplement the younger players on this roster, and the only way they can pay for this is to jettison at least 2 of their current veteran forwards. Its a given that Ghost should be gone in the off season if not sooner at the deadline.

I'll dummy this down for you. The playoffs and the regular season are very different. More intensity and a higher quality of difficulty against better teams. Producing in the regular season is far different from producing in the playoffs. Don't you often make that point?

Can't make it up.
- MJL

Excellent.

So, you need higher quality linemates for playoffs than those who make you successful in the regular season. And that higher quality line-mates are lacking in the Flyers.

Which means you have made my central point. If Giroux stays here, he would stay with the same linemates that are not good enough for the playoffs.

As such, he needs to go.

Thanks for supporting my central point.

He's a better option than Ekholm for a variety of reasons. One, he won't cost you a 1st round pick and an elite level prospect. Two, he won't affect the expansion draft.
I like Ellis but don't want to take on that term and his durability gives me pause.

You insulted yourself with your post.
- MJL

No, you just insulted yourself, because with all your fears about losing picks, prospects and the ED, you are forgetting the most important thing .. LARSSON IS NOT THAT GOOD! And he would not move the needle on this club one bit! Ekholm costs more because he IS THAT GOOD! The Flyers need to start accumulating really good players if they want to contend for something more than being just a bubble team!

With all the picks the Flyers have had since Hextall in 2014, what has it gotten them? Nothing but a mediocre prospect pool, nothing more. Picks and prospects represent potential and potential doesn't win you cups!

Someone make an argument as to why the Flyers shouldn’t make a trade. Not to get better but to move forward. I’m all for hanging on to the youth. This is what we’ve all been waiting for, right? JvR, Voracek, I don’t even know why Hayes is here. If we’re gonna build, why not rebuild?

But what you don't seem to want to admit is the Flyers top end talent that you rightly say you would typically build around, is NOT top end talent when you compare them to the rest of the league. So you have $30M in cap space tied up in 4 mediocre forwards in Giroux (who is declining, you cannot possible think otherwise), Hayes, JVR and Jake. If the Flyers were wiser with their cap space and signed true top end talent instead of JVR and Hayes, then they could afford to be more patient with their younger players. But right now its a dumpster fire because, other than Farabee, the younger players are not performing and the so-called top-end talented players are no where close to being legitimate top end players.

The Flyers in the off season need to find real top end talent to supplement the younger players on this roster, and the only way they can pay for this is to jettison at least 2 of their current veteran forwards. Its a given that Ghost should be gone in the off season if not sooner at the deadline.
- jd250

It is your imagination that I don't want to admit that. JVR is mediocre this year? While the Flyers young players are not what one would consider elite, they have a strong stable of very good players to build around. Also one player, Hart, has a chance to be an elite goaltender in the NHL. What top end talent do you suggest the Flyers taget?

No, you just insulted yourself, because with all your fears about losing picks, prospects and the ED, you are forgetting the most important thing .. LARSSON IS NOT THAT GOOD! And he would not move the needle on this club one bit! Ekholm costs more because he IS THAT GOOD! The Flyers need to start accumulating really good players if they want to contend for something more than being just a bubble team!
- jd250

Moving on from the as usual rapidly diminishing returns of arguing with MJL, are you sure Ekholm is THAT good to be a centerpiece? Especially since he is 30, and will likely have to wait at least 3 odd years more here before we reach contending status?

Someone make an argument as to why the Flyers shouldn’t make a trade. Not to get better but to move forward. I’m all for hanging on to the fourth. This is what we’ve all been waiting for, right? JvR, Voracek, I don’t even know why Hayes is here. If we’re gonna build, why not rebuild?
- SuperSchennBros

Absolutely agree with everything stated here.

No, you just insulted yourself, because with all your fears about losing picks, prospects and the ED, you are forgetting the most important thing .. LARSSON IS NOT THAT GOOD! And he would not move the needle on this club one bit! Ekholm costs more because he IS THAT GOOD! The Flyers need to start accumulating really good players if they want to contend for something more than being just a bubble team!
- jd250

Like I said previously, you are proving once again how poorly you know players on other teams. Larsson while not a true top pairing player, is a very good defenseman and an underrated player who also happens to be RH. He would help the Flyers no doubt and you wouldn't have to give up a single player asset to add him. Like you would with Ekholm or Ellis.

Excellent.

So, you need higher quality linemates for playoffs than those who make you successful in the regular season. And that higher quality line-mates are lacking in the Flyers.

Which means you have made my central point. If Giroux stays here, he would stay with the same linemates that are not good enough for the playoffs.

As such, he needs to go.

Thanks for supporting my central point.
- PT21

Disagree. You completely discount the potential for younger players to improve or other players are added through other means. The simplest of things escape you.

Moving on from the as usual rapidly diminishing returns of arguing with MJL, are you sure Ekholm is THAT good to be a centerpiece? Especially since he is 30, and will likely have to wait at least 3 odd years more here before we reach contending status?
- PT21

Ekholm is our lord and saviour. 🙏🙏🙏

Question: What's the hockey equivalent/comparable of baseball's WAR metric?

I know hockey has some advanced zone time/possession/chance creation data analysis, but is there any sort of omnibus equation that's been formulated? I know WAR is far from perfect, but it's been handy to cultivate my understanding of contributions by individual baseball players and consequentially learn other neat metrics like FIP and WRC+.

When Giroux produces in the regular season, he is/(still is) a good/very good player.

When Giroux fails in the post-season, he needs better players around him.

Except the team he is on is the same in both statements!

Can't make it up.


- PT21

So it's as easy to win in the playoffs as the regular season? Somebody should tell Connor McDavid.