I know I'm going to get into a lot of trouble for this here (especially from the two people posting above me) but I'm going to say it anyway. If I were them, I wouldn't make either Kakko or Laf absolutely untouchable -- I would LISTEN to offers. I'm certainly not saying get rid of them for nothing, but if another team made a great offer...

Don't bother, Jim.
They're all too busy trying to figure out why we signed so many busts and have the worst coach in hockey. Anything other than 56-0 is unacceptable and the other teams should roll over for us. Learning to play defense is a waste of time and no matter what the line up is, it's wrong. We should just let them play through their mistakes and learn on the fly, but somehow at the same time any mistake makes you a bust and your coach is a moron for putting you on the ice instead of the other guy.
- Tonybere

I never understood the "The coach doesn't have them ready" line. As I said before, these are grown men, not 10 year olds. If you need a coach to get to ready to play at the NHL level, then you shouldn't be in the NHL. But yea, Quinn only gets the blame for the bad things but never the good things like how the second period went yesterday.

Don't bother, Jim.
They're all too busy trying to figure out why we signed so many busts and have the worst coach in hockey. Anything other than 56-0 is unacceptable and the other teams should roll over for us. Learning to play defense is a waste of time and no matter what the line up is, it's wrong. We should just let them play through their mistakes and learn on the fly, but somehow at the same time any mistake makes you a bust and your coach is a moron for putting you on the ice instead of the other guy.
- Tonybere

So our 2nd year 2nd overall pick that’s on pace for 16 pts over an 82 game season isn’t cause for concern?

I never understood the "The coach doesn't have them ready" line. As I said before, these are grown men, not 10 year olds. If you need a coach to get to ready to play at the NHL level, then you shouldn't be in the NHL. But yea, Quinn only gets the blame for the bad things but never the good things like how the second period went yesterday.
- Rangers99

we didn't get two points last night because of special teams, it doesn't need to get more complicated than that

we didn't get two points last night because of special teams, it doesn't need to get more complicated than that
- jimbro83

This is true

since when has a first overall pick had to go 10 months between playing in any competitive game, had no training camp, no exhibition games, and then thrown into NHL games in an 8 team division that contained all the best defensive teams in the NHL?
- jimbro83

I’m more worried about Kakko than Laf. I think Laf will be a 55-60 pt guy next year. I just don’t see much in Kakko right now interms of goal scoring ability.

I’m more worried about Kakko than Laf. I think Laf will be a 55-60 pt guy next year. I just don’t see much in Kakko right now interms of goal scoring ability.
- nyrangers9479

when he scored that shootout winner vs Philly it really looked like he was about to explode, he had been playing really well

then he gets Covid and doesn't play a game from Feb 18th to March 6th

the whole thing is such a mess, it's really been the worst circumstances to try and develop two kids like this

it's really impossible to properly evaluate them

when he scored that shootout winner vs Philly it really looked like he was about to explode, he had been playing really well

then he gets Covid and doesn't play a game from Feb 18th to March 6th

the whole thing is such a mess, it's really been the worst circumstances to try and develop two kids like this

it's really impossible to properly evaluate them
- jimbro83

I get that, and for all me and u disagree on I think the one thing neither of us has done is crap on these kids. With that being said, I just haven’t seen much. I keep waiting for that shift to say wow, this kids guna be good and I just haven’t seen it. When we played jersey a month back I was watching Hughes passes and poise with the puck and said damn, he’s good. I don’t think I’ve ever had that thought with Kakko yet.

I’m more worried about Kakko than Laf. I think Laf will be a 55-60 pt guy next year. I just don’t see much in Kakko right now interms of goal scoring ability.
- nyrangers9479

I know this isn't the greatest comparison given draft capital, but just think about how long it took Buch to become the player he is today. Growth is not linear and there is no playbook for success in this league. Prior to his COVID absence, Kakko was dominant for stretches of games.

The whole team needs to score more points. It's not just Kakko.

I get that, and for all me and u disagree on I think the one thing neither of us has done is crap on these kids. With that being said, I just haven’t seen much. I keep waiting for that shift to say wow, this kids guna be good and I just haven’t seen it. When we played jersey a month back I was watching Hughes passes and poise with the puck and said damn, he’s good. I don’t think I’ve ever had that thought with Kakko yet.
- nyrangers9479

to me the difference with Kakko and Lafreniere in terms of an asset is Kravstov

if Kravstov comes here and looks better than Kakko, then I could start considering thoughts that maybe Kakko isn't an untouchable, because these two guys could very well be redundant

I do see a lot in Kakko though, he's huge, he handles the puck well, it's very difficult to get the puck from him, I worry about the finishing ability though

I’m more worried about Kakko than Laf. I think Laf will be a 55-60 pt guy next year. I just don’t see much in Kakko right now interms of goal scoring ability.
- nyrangers9479

You're right. He hasn't shown much finish to date.
But, last year he struggled almost everywhere on the ice, or at least didn't stand out positively. This year he is hard in on the forecheck and is one of the hardest people to get the puck away from night in night out. He skates with the presence of someone who is confident he is playing well and meshing with his teammates.
Is that not progress? How much progress is enough?
I would much rather these kids all learn the areas of the game that take the biggest leap at this level, ie. keeping up with the other best players in the world, early in their careers and then add back in their natural offensive instincts in the right spots than encourage them to just try to score points so their stats look good and never put together the kind of team effort that it takes to have real success.
You want flare and excitement? Take a look at Edmonton.

why are we even comparing the stats of past first overall picks to Lafreniere when none of them even approached the circumstances he's had to go through?

this first year is a wash for Laf, just getting an idea what the league is like and learning the pro game as best as he can

a regular summer of training, a real training camp, exhibition games, a normal schedule next season, then if Laf is still struggling I'd be worried
- jimbro83

I tried to make a point to the panic of dud/bust comment regarding Laf and Kakko that it's just not a statistically sound argument that our best picks in their 1st and 2nd season are already "duds"
Apparently that did not register that I was countering their emotional points.
Oh well.

I get that, and for all me and u disagree on I think the one thing neither of us has done is crap on these kids. With that being said, I just haven’t seen much. I keep waiting for that shift to say wow, this kids guna be good and I just haven’t seen it. When we played jersey a month back I was watching Hughes passes and poise with the puck and said damn, he’s good. I don’t think I’ve ever had that thought with Kakko yet.
- nyrangers9479

Come on, that's got to be recency bias. He was killing it pre covid stint. Basically our only player that was showing up...

I tried to make a point to the panic of dud/bust comment regarding Laf and Kakko that it's just not a statistically sound argument that our best picks in their 1st and 2nd season are already "duds"
Apparently that did not register that I was countering their emotional points.
Oh well.
- NYRCeph

Maybe we should keep that conversation alive for Laf. The second it became mainstream he went on a pt/gm stretch

I tried to make a point to the panic of dud/bust comment regarding Laf and Kakko that it's just not a statistically sound argument that our best picks in their 1st and 2nd season are already "duds"
Apparently that did not register that I was countering their emotional points.
Oh well.
- NYRCeph

does anyone have any doubt that if we were playing in that Canadian division where nobody plays any defense Lafreniere and Kakko would have more points?

I get that, and for all me and u disagree on I think the one thing neither of us has done is crap on these kids. With that being said, I just haven’t seen much. I keep waiting for that shift to say wow, this kids guna be good and I just haven’t seen it. When we played jersey a month back I was watching Hughes passes and poise with the puck and said damn, he’s good. I don’t think I’ve ever had that thought with Kakko yet.
- nyrangers9479

I will not say that I wouldn't like to see more scoring from Kakko, but everyone on this team this year is below what their point totals SHOULD be.
He's a puck-possession winger vs. Hughes top center role. And in the same number of games they have rather similar stat lines, despite Hughes playing 2.5 minutes more per night.

I honestly am not "worried" about the young stars.
As someone mentioned, development is not linear. Nor is circumstances always the same. Read 2020-2021 season.
Do you want to see consistent point production. Yes. Does it mean they are duds. That is a recipe for giving up too early, trading assets you intend to build around and regretting it when they are 60-70 point players in a couple years.

Maybe we should keep that conversation alive for Laf. The second it became mainstream he went on a pt/gm stretch
- Bean_Dip

Sold. I am up for a game of superstitious belief my forum posts motivate Laf. If it works, it works. We don't need logic here.

Today should be a big day, if more players go on the COVID list things may shut down

I honestly am not "worried" about the young stars.
As someone mentioned, development is not linear. Nor is circumstances always the same. Read 2020-2021 season.
Do you want to see consistent point production. Yes. Does it mean they are duds. That is a recipe for giving up too early, trading assets you intend to build around and regretting it when they are 60-70 point players in a couple years.
- NYRCeph

Yeah, this just isn't the year to get worked up over the young guys. Any of them. Nothing is clicking on a consistent basis except for the PK and occasionally team defense.

That's why I'm just going to hope for small little wins. Like last night. I thought Tarmo played well (nice assist) and Bread scored a goal. Maybe next game I'll focus in on Kakko

Today should be a big day, if more players go on the COVID list things may shut down
- TPC

man did they miss Adam Fox last night

the focus on the kids not producing is taking the heat off of Trouba, he just can't run a powerplay

man did they miss Adam Fox last night

the focus on the kids not producing is taking the heat off of Trouba, he just can't run a powerplay
- jimbro83

I feel like Miller was trying to do do much to replace Fox. He had a mess of a night as well.

I feel like Miller was trying to do do much to replace Fox. He had a mess of a night as well.
- TPC

I thought Miller had his worst game of his career

AV's a great coach, I am sure they've scouted him pretty heavily and seen some of Kandre's tendencies, now it's our coaching staff's time to work with K'Andre to tighten up some of his flaws

Yeah, this just isn't the year to get worked up over the young guys. Any of them. Nothing is clicking on a consistent basis except for the PK and occasionally team defense.

That's why I'm just going to hope for small little wins. Like last night. I thought Tarmo played well (nice assist) and Bread scored a goal. Maybe next game I'll focus in on Kakko
- Bean_Dip

I was quite happy with Tarmo. Gautier looked real good at times, but bottom line is you have to learn to control your stick. The coach simply can't risk giving up PP's, so he kinda shot himself in the foot there.
Miller had an off-night from the get go. First time, as far as I remember. His return to form will make a difference, as well.

I was quite happy with Tarmo. Gautier looked real good at times, but bottom line is you have to learn to control your stick. The coach simply can't risk giving up PP's, so he kinda shot himself in the foot there.
Miller had an off-night from the get go. First time, as far as I remember. His return to form will make a difference, as well.
- Tonybere

TJ was so happy after the goal, then disappeared after the awful penalties