I know you just want to rebuild regardless so this doesn’t really matter to you, but what I was saying was a response to the what do you do with Rust if you want to keep Sid and Geno through retirement but want to wind down asset expenditure in preparation for the coming rebuild. The Feds camp. To maintain an acceptable level of competitiveness that won’t drive Sid and Geno to Cup chase elsewhere, you need top 6 scoring wingers. We currently only have two in G and Rust. If we trade Rust this offseason or let him walk after next, we’re down to one with no internal replacement, which probably ends the Sid/Geno Era for good one way or another unless we expend even more assets on a replacement. Again, we’re trying to avoid that and wind down expenditure.

Again, this doesn’t apply to you because you just want to rebuild, but if the plan is to try keep Sid and Geno here while cashing in on assets that you can cash in on and limiting what you’re trading away, I think Rust is one asset that we should actually hold on to die to our lack of depth at wing. If you can evaluate what you think a 34 year old Rust would be worth at the future TDL, you can double that number on a four year contract and have yourself an asset that you can recoup on after Sid and Malkin are gone by retaining the full 50% and eliminate the need to spend assets replacing Rust in the short term for a team that’s probably not going to win.
- Victoro311

Rebuilding seems like a crapshoot, so rebuild when Sid and Geno are gone.

Yeah I’m definitely not advocating giving him a contract that’s guaranteed to be a failure or let him walk for nothing. I also wouldn’t move him for less than say what Kapanen got.
- Feds91Stammer

Might not really have any of those options. I think the most likely is getting a good return for him this off-season.

I know you just want to rebuild regardless so this doesn’t really matter to you, but what I was saying was a response to the what do you do with Rust if you want to keep Sid and Geno through retirement but want to wind down asset expenditure in preparation for the coming rebuild. The Feds camp. To maintain an acceptable level of competitiveness that won’t drive Sid and Geno to Cup chase elsewhere, you need top 6 scoring wingers. We currently only have two in G and Rust. If we trade Rust this offseason or let him walk after next, we’re down to one with no internal replacement, which probably ends the Sid/Geno Era for good one way or another unless we expend even more assets on a replacement. Again, we’re trying to avoid that and wind down expenditure.

Again, this doesn’t apply to you because you just want to rebuild, but if the plan is to try keep Sid and Geno here while cashing in on assets that you can cash in on and limiting what you’re trading away, I think Rust is one asset that we should actually hold on to die to our lack of depth at wing. If you can evaluate what you think a 34 year old Rust would be worth at the future TDL, you can double that number on a four year contract and have yourself an asset that you can recoup on after Sid and Malkin are gone by retaining the full 50% and eliminate the need to spend assets replacing Rust in the short term for a team that’s probably not going to win.
- Victoro311

Agree we're on different pages and that's fine IMO.

To play the exercise out, if I sell this off-season, a guy like McCann gets a top 6 role and I start playing the asset gain game where I trade Rust for assets (expecting bidding starts with a 1st) and maybe add a vet in a lower tier I hope to flip later. Guentzel (unless I got an unreal offer), Kapanen, and McCann are still there and hopefully the latter 2 get their value pumped up. You give guys like Poulin and Legere more of a chance then you would contending for a title.

I don't think you're getting much for a 34 year old Rust down the road. If you keep him, I think you're just ok not getting useful assets for him later which fits in your plan.

Agree we're on different pages and that's fine IMO.

To play the exercise out, if I sell this off-season, a guy like McCann gets a top 6 role and I start playing the asset gain game where I trade Rust for assets (expecting bidding starts with a 1st) and maybe add a vet in a lower tier I hope to flip later. Guentzel (unless I got an unreal offer), Kapanen, and McCann are still there and hopefully the latter 2 get their value pumped up. You give guys like Poulin and Legere more of a chance then you would contending for a title.

I don't think you're getting much for a 34 year old Rust down the road. If you keep him, I think you're just ok not getting useful assets for him later which fits in your plan.
- Tojo.

Age doesn’t matter for rentals. If Rust is a 15 goal / 40 point through 82 games at age 34, that’s worth at least a 3rd. That’s not worthless. And I consider that a net gain in conjunction with all the assets we didn’t gas replacing Rust.

This is all a product of circumstance though. If we had more good wingers, trading Rust this offseason would be a good idea by my road map’s standards.

Agree we're on different pages and that's fine IMO.

To play the exercise out, if I sell this off-season, a guy like McCann gets a top 6 role and I start playing the asset gain game where I trade Rust for assets (expecting bidding starts with a 1st) and maybe add a vet in a lower tier I hope to flip later. Guentzel (unless I got an unreal offer), Kapanen, and McCann are still there and hopefully the latter 2 get their value pumped up. You give guys like Poulin and Legere more of a chance then you would contending for a title.

I don't think you're getting much for a 34 year old Rust down the road. If you keep him, I think you're just ok not getting useful assets for him later which fits in your plan.
- Tojo.

I disagree about Rust. Especially if he keeps that "clutch" tag much like Justin Williams. I'm sure you could get a second for him.

Age doesn’t matter for rentals. If Rust is a 15 goal / 40 point through 82 games at age 34, that’s worth at least a 3rd. That’s not worthless. And I consider that a net gain in conjunction with all the assets we didn’t gas replacing Rust.

This is all a product of circumstance though. If we had more good wingers, trading Rust this offseason would be a good idea by my road map’s standards.
- Victoro311

I agre here too, see my post above.

I disagree about Rust. Especially if he keeps that "clutch" tag much like Justin Williams. I'm sure you could get a second for him.
- 668710

Rust definitely ain't clutch like Justin Williams, that's for sure. I think he's over-rated as clutch in Pittsburgh, but Williams is known as clutch around the league.

I agre here too, see my post above.
- 668710

Yeah like if we were in a position where we could have retained on Hornqvist he would have been super valuable, 34 years of age be damned.

Age doesn’t matter for rentals. If Rust is a 15 goal / 40 point through 82 games at age 34, that’s worth at least a 3rd. That’s not worthless. And I consider that a net gain in conjunction with all the assets we didn’t gas replacing Rust.

This is all a product of circumstance though. If we had more good wingers, trading Rust this offseason would be a good idea by my road map’s standards.
- Victoro311

The asset management part is where we diverge too much to make a direct comparison. I'd be replacing Rust on the cheap so I'd be gaining assets.

A 34 year old Hornqvist didn't get a 3rd even though his numbers were better then that. He ended up getting dumped for a worse contract. Maybe that's all GMJR, but many would say at that production, age, and contract he had negative value, not a 3rd. (Or a 2nd I see you 66871). So in my mind I'm comparing negative value to a 1st and maybe more which a significantly bigger gap.

The asset management part is where we diverge too much to make a direct comparison. I'd be replacing Rust on the cheap so I'd be gaining assets.

A 34 year old Hornqvist didn't get a 3rd even though his numbers were better then that. He ended up getting dumped for a worse contract. Maybe that's all GMJR, but many would say at that production, age, and contract he had negative value, not a 3rd. (Or a 2nd I see you 66871). So in my mind I'm comparing negative value to a 1st and maybe more which a significantly bigger gap.
- Tojo.

We couldn’t retain on Hornqvist. If we had he would have been valuable

Might not really have any of those options. I think the most likely is getting a good return for him this off-season.
- Tojo.

What is a good return for Rust?

We couldn’t retain on Hornqvist. If we had he would have been valuable
- Victoro311

I'm not sure that's the case, but we'll never know.

The asset management part is where we diverge too much to make a direct comparison. I'd be replacing Rust on the cheap so I'd be gaining assets.

A 34 year old Hornqvist didn't get a 3rd even though his numbers were better then that. He ended up getting dumped for a worse contract. Maybe that's all GMJR, but many would say at that production, age, and contract he had negative value, not a 3rd. (Or a 2nd I see you 66871). So in my mind I'm comparing negative value to a 1st and maybe more which a significantly bigger gap.
- Tojo.

You can't compare Hornqvist with Rust. Hornqvist never had any speed and while he may be slowing down, nobody notices. Rust 's game is going to suffer when he starts to lose his speed. I do think he is talented enough to contribute at a top six level for a few more years.

I resign Rust and keep him as long as Crosby and Malkin are here.

What is a good return for Rust?
- Feds91Stammer

Should start with a 1st. 3.5M for a top 6 RW is pretty valuable right now when teams are adding for good cap numbers. It's possible they get back what they traded for Kapanen, but I'm not sure because it's 3 years of Kapanen v 1 year of Rust.

You'll probably say a late 1st as the main piece isn't worth it, but that's instantly at least their 2nd best pick/prospect asset. This system needs a lot more then to just hit a lottery pick in the future. If that's all it took, Buffalo would be good.

You can't compare Hornqvist with Rust. Hornqvist never had any speed and while he may be slowing down, nobody notices. Rust 's game is going to suffer when he starts to lose his speed. I do think he is talented enough to contribute at a top six level for a few more years.

I resign Rust and keep him as long as Crosby and Malkin are here.
- Thunderbolt

You're jumping in the middle of a much longer conversation.

You're jumping in the middle of a much longer conversation.
- Tojo.

I didn't realize things got very deep around here. I'll stay away, my wife just made me dinner anyway.

I didn't realize things got very deep around here. I'll stay away, my wife just made me dinner anyway.

- Thunderbolt

LOL. Sorry, just didn't want to make another long post explaining the context.

Pettersson
- 668710

Yeah, its Petterson that goes. Really Any of the fringe guys that have some value and a salary could.

Should start with a 1st. 3.5M for a top 6 RW is pretty valuable right now when teams are adding for good cap numbers. It's possible they get back what they traded for Kapanen, but I'm not sure because it's 3 years of Kapanen v 1 year of Rust.

You'll probably say a late 1st as the main piece isn't worth it, but that's instantly at least their 2nd best pick/prospect asset. This system needs a lot more then to just hit a lottery pick in the future. If that's all it took, Buffalo would be good.
- Tojo.

Yeah that’s where we disagree I think.

For just a late 1st I hang on to him and deal for a 2nd at the deadline if you’re out of it.

Now if you can move him for a 1st now and replace him with an UFA on say a 3yr deal that makes sense to me. Say a Saad, Schwartz, Tatar, Palmieri type guy. That way you still have a productive winger in his place but also added a pick for your future.

Should start with a 1st. 3.5M for a top 6 RW is pretty valuable right now when teams are adding for good cap numbers. It's possible they get back what they traded for Kapanen, but I'm not sure because it's 3 years of Kapanen v 1 year of Rust.

You'll probably say a late 1st as the main piece isn't worth it, but that's instantly at least their 2nd best pick/prospect asset. This system needs a lot more then to just hit a lottery pick in the future. If that's all it took, Buffalo would be good.
- Tojo.

So you're saying trade Rust this off-season?

LOL. Sorry, just didn't want to make another long post explaining the context.
- Tojo.

Not a big deal. I normally don't get involved in the business/GM side of things.

The problem with this team is we have too many of the same type of players. We need a little more size and grit next to Malkin. Malkin can still play at high level and likes to play a little on the edge...I would love to see us trade for Evander Kane, Pett’s a prospect, Rikola and few dollars in salary retention gets it done.

The problem with this team is we have too many of the same type of players. We need a little more size and grit next to Malkin. Malkin can still play at high level and likes to play a little on the edge...I would love to see us trade for Evander Kane, Pett’s a prospect, Rikola and few dollars in salary retention gets it done.
- Malkin

E Kane is a douchecanoe. Don’t know why anyone would want that piece of trash on their team.

The problem with this team is we have too many of the same type of players. We need a little more size and grit next to Malkin. Malkin can still play at high level and likes to play a little on the edge...I would love to see us trade for Evander Kane, Pett’s a prospect, Rikola and few dollars in salary retention gets it done.
- Malkin

Hahaha what? .... Who's retaining salary and on who?

E Kane is a douchecanoe. Don’t know why anyone would want that piece of trash on their team.
- Feds91Stammer

There's also this for sure... But there's no doubt he can be quite effective on the ice and probably would fit well on Geno's left... Though he seems more of Sid type wing haha like a bigger Kuntiz

kane geno kap wow