What do you see in Dermott's game that you don't like - that we could reasonably replace for a similar cap hit ( ~ $1m)?

I ask because I find him relatively steady, not particularly flashy, but doing generally smart things with the puck. For a third pairing guy making $875k, who is 24 and I think has the hockey IQ to adapt and improve his positional play, I don't have a big problem with him.

Let's say with the cap room we've accrued, we have about $4m to fit under the cap, maybe $5m . . .I have seen Granlund floated as a target ($3.75m) and Iafallo suggested ($2.4m), so I'm not sure we have the wiggle room to really improve upon Dermott.

So while I recognize there are much better defensemen in the league, I'm not sure there are a lot of 3rd pairing cheap options that would be much better.
- Monkeypunk

Dermott is Leafs 3rd best d-man after Rielly and Muzzin. Brodie has been much better than I expected, but in my opinion he is worse defensively than Dermott. Brodie has been really good when in possession, he has great patience - I like that aspect of his game a lot.
All by all though -- I see more need to add on FW/in goal than on D at this point (with Holl being steady as well, and Liljegren, Sandin out there as well -- Bogo being a good 6/7 guy).

Exactly! And our phones have flashlights. We can find the liquor store in the dark.
- Monkeypunk

"Sir, you can't drink that in here..."

"I know my rights"

"Sir, you can't drink that in here..."

"I know my rights"
- PatC80

What do you see in Dermott's game that you don't like - that we could reasonably replace for a similar cap hit ( ~ $1m)?

I ask because I find him relatively steady, not particularly flashy, but doing generally smart things with the puck. For a third pairing guy making $875k, who is 24 and I think has the hockey IQ to adapt and improve his positional play, I don't have a big problem with him.

Let's say with the cap room we've accrued, we have about $4m to fit under the cap, maybe $5m . . .I have seen Granlund floated as a target ($3.75m) and Iafallo suggested ($2.4m), so I'm not sure we have the wiggle room to really improve upon Dermott.

So while I recognize there are much better defensemen in the league, I'm not sure there are a lot of 3rd pairing cheap options that would be much better.
- Monkeypunk

Dermott provides zero offensive creativity, isn't particularly "tough" to play against, and wears tight Speedos while sporting a cornrow hair style.

Let's be clear: I don't think he's terrible in the way that Marincin is wont to be, but there are other options the Leafs have (Lehtonen, Sandin) that would easily compensate for losing Dermott. At 24, he hasn't shown much improvement beyond being able to handle some protected, third pair minutes.

My suggestion to trade him is to clear some minor cap space that has, at least, some value for teams whose third unit could use a meager upgrade.

You don't get someone of value back in return for him but he could be an interesting piece as part of a package that could make the $$$ work while bringing back an upgrade needed in the lineup elsewhere (3rd line forward with truculence!).

Dermott is Leafs 3rd best d-man after Rielly and Muzzin. Brodie has been much better than I expected, but in my opinion he is worse defensively than Dermott. Brodie has been really good when in possession, he has great patience - I like that aspect of his game a lot.
All by all though -- I see more need to add on FW/in goal than on D at this point (with Holl being steady as well, and Liljegren, Sandin out there as well -- Bogo being a good 6/7 guy).
- MaximusAurelius

Negative

You will need to lineup one at a time
- mr.sir

hedge and offer him first 10 mins for 40

You had me until you had a Mikeyev scoring....lets be realistic. Unless you were talking about Campbell, then it makes more sense.
- Archaic

I admit, I did overplay my hand a bit there.

Dermott is Leafs 3rd best d-man after Rielly and Muzzin. Brodie has been much better than I expected, but in my opinion he is worse defensively than Dermott. Brodie has been really good when in possession, he has great patience - I like that aspect of his game a lot.
All by all though -- I see more need to add on FW/in goal than on D at this point (with Holl being steady as well, and Liljegren, Sandin out there as well -- Bogo being a good 6/7 guy).
- MaximusAurelius

I very much disagree with this take.

Brodie has been the most effective Leaf on managing zone entries against, and really to be more fair about it - puck management in general in the defensive zone. Just because you didn't like the idea of signing him in the off-season doesn't mean you can't adjust your thinking once the evidence proves it out. I didn't think he'd be as effective as he is.

Holl has been terrific save for a couple of games, and Bogosian has offered us everything we thought he would, including bringing some physical play and muscle in front of the net. Nothing flashy, but he's solid.

Dermott makes smart plays and does little things that aren't always distinctly noticeable - picks, slowing his pace, pulling a forechecker in, but his defensive game could still use work. He is outmuscled in places where he needs to be stronger and outworked in his zone when he should be working harder. I think he's getting better - and having played consistently in a few games, I think it's more noticeable. But if he's our 3rd best defenseman this year, our goalies must be stellar.

Dermott is Leafs 3rd best d-man after Rielly and Muzzin. Brodie has been much better than I expected, but in my opinion he is worse defensively than Dermott. Brodie has been really good when in possession, he has great patience - I like that aspect of his game a lot.
All by all though -- I see more need to add on FW/in goal than on D at this point (with Holl being steady as well, and Liljegren, Sandin out there as well -- Bogo being a good 6/7 guy).
- MaximusAurelius

Jesus.

(frank)ing.

Christ.

hedge and offer him first 10 mins for 40

- senstroll

too easy. Like finding $20

Dermott is Leafs 3rd best d-man after Rielly and Muzzin. Brodie has been much better than I expected, but in my opinion he is worse defensively than Dermott. Brodie has been really good when in possession, he has great patience - I like that aspect of his game a lot.
All by all though -- I see more need to add on FW/in goal than on D at this point (with Holl being steady as well, and Liljegren, Sandin out there as well -- Bogo being a good 6/7 guy).
- MaximusAurelius

Nahh... but it would be nice if the team were able to jettison a few pieces like Vesey and/or Cornrow Dermott to improve the club at the TDL, no?

The odds of Dubas standing pat are pretty much nil.

Having said that, as much as I lament Freddie, I wouldn't trade him -- I just wouldn't re-sign him. Likewise with Willie (who I actually really like), I think he has to go in the off-season.

Of course, my previous statement goes out the window if the Leafs win the Cup... then all bets are off and who cares at that point?
- mjones242

I think Dermott is a pretty damn good 6th/7th D to have come playoff time. If injuries hit he can move up a pair without completely disastrous consequences.

Unless we prefer Marincin step into that role anyways... 🤷🏻‍♂️

Buffalo is such a tire fire. NYR fans cheering "We want Eichel" while beating the Sabres

Dermott is Leafs 3rd best d-man after Rielly and Muzzin. Brodie has been much better than I expected, but in my opinion he is worse defensively than Dermott. Brodie has been really good when in possession, he has great patience - I like that aspect of his game a lot.
All by all though -- I see more need to add on FW/in goal than on D at this point (with Holl being steady as well, and Liljegren, Sandin out there as well -- Bogo being a good 6/7 guy).
- MaximusAurelius

Cheque, please.

Have you ever seen it? My wife really wanted to go. I had done some work for Marketing as a favour so they gifted me seats as compensation. They could have just stabbed me with a fork.

It was the first live show I ever fell asleep at. Not before either of my wife or I asked about 30 times, "What is going on? Does this represent something?"

A month later I also fell asleep at the Phantom, so perhaps I'm just uncultured swine.
- Monkeypunk

To me, "the ballet" means one of two things:

- going to see the little bear in the car
- something else.

Have you ever seen it? My wife really wanted to go. I had done some work for Marketing as a favour so they gifted me seats as compensation. They could have just stabbed me with a fork.

It was the first live show I ever fell asleep at. Not before either of my wife or I asked about 30 times, "What is going on? Does this represent something?"

A month later I also fell asleep at the Phantom, so perhaps I'm just uncultured swine.
- Monkeypunk

ditto for me as well

could not wait for it to finish

Dermott provides zero offensive creativity, isn't particularly "tough" to play against, and wears tight Speedos while sporting a cornrow hair style.

Let's be clear: I don't think he's terrible in the way that Marincin is wont to be, but there are other options the Leafs have (Lehtonen, Sandin) that would easily compensate for losing Dermott. At 24, he hasn't shown much improvement beyond being able to handle some protected, third pair minutes.

My suggestion to trade him is to clear some minor cap space that has, at least, some value for teams whose third unit could use a meager upgrade.

You don't get someone of value back in return for him but he could be an interesting piece as part of a package that could make the $$$ work while bringing back an upgrade needed in the lineup elsewhere (3rd line forward with truculence!).
- mjones242

I haven’t seen enough to be comfortable being one injury away from having Sandin being an everyday defenceman in the playoffs. If Dubas had any idea of moving Dermott, we’d be seeing a lot more of potential replacements. My guess is that he’s far happier having a defensive structure that finally works than the Leaf fan base.

I think we have enough bottom 6 forward parts to not need to worry about adding a third liner with truculence (is this still Bennett?). I’ll check with Max but I don’t think Simmons has died and our various third line combos have been really good.

If we want to add a forward, look for a rental that we pay from somewhere other than defence. I like leading the Division in lowest Goals Against.

Buffalo is such a tire fire. NYR fans cheering "We want Eichel" while beating the Sabres
- Archaic

Unreal what is going on with that team. Skinner has 1 pt and a 9 mill per yr deal, for 6 more years.

Kyle Okposo - 1 frankin point. 6 mill per for next 2 after this year.

Have you ever seen it? My wife really wanted to go. I had done some work for Marketing as a favour so they gifted me seats as compensation. They could have just stabbed me with a fork.

It was the first live show I ever fell asleep at. Not before either of my wife or I asked about 30 times, "What is going on? Does this represent something?"

A month later I also fell asleep at the Phantom, so perhaps I'm just uncultured swine.
- Monkeypunk

But to answer your question, my mother used to take all the women and girls of the family as a special treat.

I thought it was disgustingly sexist that I was always excluded.

Sitting in a bar or at home with my brothers, loudly complaining about our mother's anachronistic views, while we drank beer and watched sports.

Dermott provides zero offensive creativity, isn't particularly "tough" to play against, and wears tight Speedos while sporting a cornrow hair style.

Let's be clear: I don't think he's terrible in the way that Marincin is wont to be, but there are other options the Leafs have (Lehtonen, Sandin) that would easily compensate for losing Dermott. At 24, he hasn't shown much improvement beyond being able to handle some protected, third pair minutes.

My suggestion to trade him is to clear some minor cap space that has, at least, some value for teams whose third unit could use a meager upgrade.

You don't get someone of value back in return for him but he could be an interesting piece as part of a package that could make the $$$ work while bringing back an upgrade needed in the lineup elsewhere (3rd line forward with truculence!).
- mjones242

I don't think he's particularly tough to play against either. The offense thing . . .he was decent in Erie. He has offensive instincts - he even carried them to the Marlies, but on the Leafs he's pretty stifled. Some guys just get shuffled into roles they're not suited for, so this might be a square peg / round hole thing for him.

The $875k in capspace is negligible for what he brings, and at this point, he plays better than Lehtonen (and Sandin is injured). If he were hurt and Lehtonen were to get a number of games in sequentially, it might be nice to really compare them once they got the feel for the game. A comparison I'll make here is that I was ready to jettison Barabanov into low orbit, but having given him some more ice, he's not bad. Still not top-6 worthy, but not awful.

But the bottom line is that you feel he could and should be better by now; I know a number of people feel that way. Right _now_ he's probably #6 on our depth chart (or #3 depending on how you count, apparently), and it's probably good to have that insurance. In the offseason he's an RFA so that's a different ballgame.

hedge and offer him first 10 mins for 40

- senstroll

Note: I will need to PVR the game

(so your payment may be delayed)🤕

I mean.... how do you want to do this? Should I break your legs first?

https://media3.giphy.com/...fy8wjyjbq9k&rid=giphy.gif

Dermott provides zero offensive creativity, isn't particularly "tough" to play against, and wears tight Speedos while sporting a cornrow hair style.

Let's be clear: I don't think he's terrible in the way that Marincin is wont to be, but there are other options the Leafs have (Lehtonen, Sandin) that would easily compensate for losing Dermott. At 24, he hasn't shown much improvement beyond being able to handle some protected, third pair minutes.

My suggestion to trade him is to clear some minor cap space that has, at least, some value for teams whose third unit could use a meager upgrade.

You don't get someone of value back in return for him but he could be an interesting piece as part of a package that could make the $$$ work while bringing back an upgrade needed in the lineup elsewhere (3rd line forward with truculence!).
- mjones242

Hmmm. Don't like the idea of feeding Sandin and Liljegren to the wolves come playoff games, like it or not they both have huge steps to make before they're as game ready as Dermott.

Especially Sandin, he was bullied like a little kid in the regular season let alone having him jump into a playoff game. That's how you Luke Schenn kids.

If you can find someone reliable to step into the lineup who can move up and down pairings if needed for less than a million bucks then sure dump off Dermott, not sure who that would be. 🤷🏻‍♂️

My first of many random thoughts for today:

The Leafs should have outbid Scotiabank to sponsor the Division.

"The Toronto Maple Leafs have been playing very well lately, sitting atop the Toronto Maple Leafs' North Division."

"Montreal is currently mired in a slump, falling to 4th in the Toronto Maple Leafs' North Division."

It would have been glorious.

Unreal what is going on with that team. Skinner has 1 pt and a 9 mill per yr deal, for 6 more years.

Kyle Okposo - 1 frankin point. 6 mill per for next 2 after this year.
- bixll

I'm ok with it.

Unreal what is going on with that team. Skinner has 1 pt and a 9 mill per yr deal, for 6 more years.

Kyle Okposo - 1 frankin point. 6 mill per for next 2 after this year.
- bixll

Some reports that they are looking to waive Skinner now.. What a tire fire