I like the +/- stat, but it can be misapplied which you have clearly done here. Rielly's minus stats came in the seasons 2013-14 to 2016-17 which were seasons where he played for a team that was dreadful. He is a plus player since despite playing more PP minutes than any other d-man and not being on the PK. Hamilton hasn't played for a last place club ever.
- winsix

Rielly is 3rd on the Leafs last 3 seasons (+31) so yes, you're completely right.

spezz with the same points as hyman, thus hyman is a league min player

is this how it works
- daeth

$5m for everyone, leafs are meticulous with their cash.

Me neither ..but you can't hide from the Cap.

Unless you let Hyman walk, trade Willie, or expose Muzzin to the exp draft you're left with saving money in Net.

Trade some young assets/picks for a talented young goalie making less than 3.

And the hypo was to add a partner for Campbell not to make him the #1.
- The Law

I assume Kerfoot is gone but that doesn’t get you enough. I don’t buy that Hyman says no to what he believes he deserves which is at the very least $4.5M but probably more.

I think the season tells what they do. If Freddie continues to improve over the next month they see if they can get him at a number they can live with. That likely costs them one of Rielly, Hyman or Nylander depending on what other things they want to do. If Nylander returns to last year’s form and if Rielly doesn’t get too carried away with pinch-itis, I think Hyman is the odd man out. That’s unless he’s gives them an amazing deal.

I was a little nervous in the 1st when the only thing shiny on line 2 was Kerfoot.

I was a little nervous in the 1st when the only thing shiny on line 2 was Kerfoot.
- Garnie

I know what you mean. He was kind of driving the play

I assume Kerfoot is gone but that doesn’t get you enough. I don’t buy that Hyman says no to what he believes he deserves which is at the very least $4.5M but probably more.

I think the season tells what they do. If Freddie continues to improve over the next month they see if they can get him at a number they can live with. That likely costs them one of Rielly, Hyman or Nylander depending on what other things they want to do. If Nylander returns to last year’s form and if Rielly doesn’t get too carried away with pinch-itis, I think Hyman is the odd man out. That’s unless he’s gives them an amazing deal.
- Canada Cup

Kerfoot feels like a stop gap for both the 2LW spot and the 3C spot. He never feels like he has either position. The versatility is nice though.

over the last 3 seasons (regular games), Hyman only has 12 points less than Nylander.
He has 3 more goals as well than Nylander.
Nylander has 20 more PPP (29vs9).
Hyman has more TOI/G (1:20 per game), but most of that is surely linked to Hyman's PK time.
Shot percentage 15% vs 11%.

Hyman is a +38 (second on the team after Marner), while Willie is a -5.

Kerfoot's AAV is 3.5mln.


There are plenty of reasons why Hyman's agent should start with a 5y @6.5mln AAV contract demand.
Anything below 5.5mln AAV for Hyman is a bargain.
- MaximusAurelius

Nylander was a 23 yr old RFA. Hyman will be a 29 yr old UFA ...bad comparison.

Better comps are middle 6 UFA wingers over the past couple of years.

Toffoli 4 x 4.25
Dadanov 3x5
Donskoi 4 x 3.9
Nyquist 4 x 5.5
Brown 3 x 3.6

Look at signings on sportrac and sift through and find your favourite comp. He's 4 - 5 with term in my books for his age 29-33 years.

But, it doesn't matter bc the Leafs can't give him 5.5+ with term. If he wants 5.5+ he'll have to leave town to get it.

over the last 3 seasons (regular games), Hyman only has 12 points less than Nylander.
He has 3 more goals as well than Nylander.
Nylander has 20 more PPP (29vs9).
Hyman has more TOI/G (1:20 per game), but most of that is surely linked to Hyman's PK time.
Shot percentage 15% vs 11%.

Hyman is a +38 (second on the team after Marner), while Willie is a -5.

Kerfoot's AAV is 3.5mln.


There are plenty of reasons why Hyman's agent should start with a 5y @6.5mln AAV contract demand.
Anything below 5.5mln AAV for Hyman is a bargain.
- MaximusAurelius

Comparing Hyman to Nylander is unusual. Nylander is 24. Hyman is 28. When Hyman turned 25, he had a whopping 14 goals to his career credit.

Hyman, however, is at a 30 goal pace over his last 82 games averaged out (this season + last), and a 55 point pace. Aside from producing he brings lots of other valuable assets to the table that we all know about. The problem from a negotiation perspective is that optically he has 2 20 goal seasons under his belt. He has a career high 41 points. He plays with the best goal scorer in the league. He is by no means a floater, but he is very much a fortunate recipient of having played with Matthews and Marner. This year is prime evidence of that. In 5v5 play this year, he has 1 goal and 4 assists with Matthews and Marner. He has 0 points with Tavares and Nylander, and 1 assist with Mikheyev and Kerfoot.

He has an empty net goal and 2 power play goals.

Ultimately he's very effective, but he is the beneficiary of his placement in the lineup. He's not a $5.5m player.

New Ted Cruz pics

https://mobile.twitter.co.../1362617723759468546?s=12

Also , people getting hit with huge power bills ($2,500/day for two story house) and Jerry Jones natural gas company excited about “hitting the jackpot” because prices skyrocketed with deep freeze.

Comparing Hyman to Nylander is unusual. Nylander is 24. Hyman is 28. When Hyman turned 25, he had a whopping 14 goals to his career credit.

Hyman, however, is at a 30 goal pace over his last 82 games averaged out (this season + last), and a 55 point pace. Aside from producing he brings lots of other valuable assets to the table that we all know about. The problem from a negotiation perspective is that optically he has 2 20 goal seasons under his belt. He has a career high 41 points. He plays with the best goal scorer in the league. He is by no means a floater, but he is very much a fortunate recipient of having played with Matthews and Marner. This year is prime evidence of that. In 5v5 play this year, he has 1 goal and 4 assists with Matthews and Marner. He has 0 points with Tavares and Nylander, and 1 assist with Mikheyev and Kerfoot.

He has an empty net goal and 2 power play goals.

Ultimately he's very effective, but he is the beneficiary of his placement in the lineup. He's not a $5.5m player.
- Monkeypunk

I hope/think we can get Hyman at $4M per season

new blog everyone

Yeah, you forgot the part about whiffing on at least one goal in each series deciding game, throughout his career.

You also forgot sliding 3' wide of the net one simple saves... if he even manages to arrive on time.
- Aetherial[/quote]

Sure whiffing on a goal in his most recent series deciding game when his super offensively talented team couldn't score even one goal (for the second time in the series) is exactly why they lost the game/ series.

Sliding 3 feet wide even when he makes the save = he fails the every important eye test.

Thanks for proving my point(s).

I'm a neutral. Goaltending is (frank)ed and unpredictable at the best of times.

For me there's maybe 3 or 4 guys in the league that you'd lock in at 7+ per year. Then there's a messy middle ground of about 20 guys that might be worth 4-6 per year. Then there's a handful of unproven/less proven cheap young guys making 3 or less.

Freddy's in that messy middle. He can range from bad to very good on any night ...like a lot of goalies.

Pick your poison.

For the Leafs are they better locking into Freddy if he's looking for 6 per year? Or, given their cap issues, should they be looking for some better value via a trade or a 1A/1B partnership with Campbell?

We have the rest of the year to let it play out.
- The Law

I agree- at 5M I think you are going to get what you have now. You may luck into a guy who plays more like Freddy did or did more consistently but I also think you have the inevitable slide and then hopefully regaining of old form. To your point you have to be lucky even if your paying top $ for a goalie based on what he did - look at Price or Bob - both have been lights out in the past for extended periods and got big money contracts but are not playing anywhere near what they should be if you factor in cost. I mean is Price better than Andersen? Sure - is he TWICE as good - no shot.

I think both the Leafs and Andersen are waiting to see how this year plays out. If he catches fire and leads the Leafs deep in the playoffs he will want more than he is getting now and I think the Leafs let him walk to get it. If he can be resigned for essentially what he is getting now, they have to consider it and perhaps moving more games to Campbell to see what they have in him - really good backup guy or potential starter.

Should be interesting but I'm really not a fan of going big to get a guy who has had success and then may just fall back to the greasy middle when you sign him to a big old fat contract.

So we’re turning to a 29 year old with 66 NHL games? I like Campbell but I haven’t seen enough for that yet
- Canada Cup

THANK YOU!!!!

This is so typical of what Leaf fans want and what the organization did for so many years....new shiny toy syndrome - the one you have is never as good as the next one.

I really like Campbell and how he has played in Toronto and honestly hope he can become the starter one day but to take him from where he is and throw him into the starter role in a place where goalies are either cast in bronze outside the rink or burned at the stake is just asking for disaster in my eyes.

I like the +/- stat, but it can be misapplied which you have clearly done here. Rielly's minus stats came in the seasons 2013-14 to 2016-17 which were seasons where he played for a team that was dreadful. He is a plus player since despite playing more PP minutes than any other d-man and not being on the PK. Hamilton hasn't played for a last place club ever.
- winsix

I didn't clearly do anything, I quoted both players CAREER +/- stats when I took a quick look at them. I still think Hamilton is better suited for what the Leafs need on the blue like than Reilly brings but I love Mo as much as the next Leafs fan and don't want him to be traded because misguided loyalty and love is how we are.

[quote=Aetherial]Yeah, you forgot the part about whiffing on at least one goal in each series deciding game, throughout his career.

You also forgot sliding 3' wide of the net one simple saves... if he even manages to arrive on time.
- Cush29[/quote]

Sure whiffing on a goal in his most recent series deciding game when his super offensively talented team couldn't score even one goal (for the second time in the series) is exactly why they lost the game/ series.

Sliding 3 feet wide even when he makes the save = he fails the every important eye test.

Thanks for proving my point(s).

He does slide way out of the (frank)ing net, all the time and it clearly happened in the first Ottawa game.

That little incident about the bad goal that you brushed off occurred in the 3rd period of a 1-goal, deciding game. It also wasn't just bad, it was as bad a goal as you are likely to see from an NHL goalie. It also was not an isolated incident. You have a pretty (frank)ing bad memory.

So, let me get this straight, he doesn't slide way out of his crease, or flop around or give up horrible goals. He is not 0-for in deciding games. He hasn't given up horrible goals in those games. He didn't have numbers virtually identical to Hutchinson for the first couple months of 2020?

Is that your contention?

If you are going to come on here with a bumhole tone, then come prepared with some better arguments, or at least some facts.

He does slide way out of the (frank)ing net, all the time and it clearly happened in the first Ottawa game.

That little incident about the bad goal that you brushed off occurred in the 3rd period of a 1-goal, deciding game. It also wasn't just bad, it was as bad a goal as you are likely to see from an NHL goalie. It also was not an isolated incident. You have a pretty (frank)ing bad memory.

So, let me get this straight, he doesn't slide way out of his crease, or flop around or give up horrible goals. He is not 0-for in deciding games. He hasn't given up horrible goals in those games. He didn't have numbers virtually identical to Hutchinson for the first couple months of 2020?

Is that your contention?

If you are going to come on here with a bumhole tone, then come prepared with some better arguments, or at least some facts.
- Aetherial

Your true passionate dislike for him is showing - sorry you have become so flustered with this.

Keep taking what I say, try to twist it to say what you want to hear and then challenge me on it - that's for sure not you taking an bumhole tone at all.

I never said it was an isolated incident, what I said was his (frank)ing team scored zero goals champ - keep up. So how much of a flying (frank) does it actually matter if he gave up a goal, a soft goal even when his team scored ZERO? They lost the game 1 to nothing - is it really that hard for you to grasp that?

He makes mistakes - yes Einstein, just like every other NHL goalie - hence why goals get scored. Again I never said he was without fault.

He slides too much and flops too much is your / dislike / pet peeve or whatever you want to call it. Yes others share your opinion, I never said he didn't do any of these things that upset you so much. Infact I would agree he has done too much of it on some occasions this year, he has also bailed out this team this year but people like you don't want to see or admit it and that's fine.

Yes, brilliant comparison on his #s vs Hutch's #'s. One guy played 10 in a row, one guy has played one game all season and looked like dog poop doing it GTFO of here with that garbage.

Are those facts clear enough for you? Maybe it's you who needs to reexamine what facts, & arguments you are bringing to the table and be better.

because you don't have any valid arguments to back up your own opinion??
what a noob.
- MaximusAurelius

No because anyone who knows anything about the use of stats looks for outliers that artificially affect them. Nylanders holdout year would be just that.

Your true passionate dislike for him is showing - sorry you have become so flustered with this.

Keep taking what I say, try to twist it to say what you want to hear and then challenge me on it - that's for sure not you taking an bumhole tone at all.

I never said it was an isolated incident, what I said was his (frank)ing team scored zero goals champ - keep up. So how much of a flying (frank) does it actually matter if he gave up a goal, a soft goal even when his team scored ZERO? They lost the game 1 to nothing - is it really that hard for you to grasp that?

He makes mistakes - yes Einstein, just like every other NHL goalie - hence why goals get scored. Again I never said he was without fault.

He slides too much and flops too much is your / dislike / pet peeve or whatever you want to call it. Yes others share your opinion, I never said he didn't do any of these things that upset you so much. Infact I would agree he has done too much of it on some occasions this year, he has also bailed out this team this year but people like you don't want to see or admit it and that's fine.

Yes, brilliant comparison on his #s vs Hutch's #'s. One guy played 10 in a row, one guy has played one game all season and looked like dog poop doing it GTFO of here with that garbage.

Are those facts clear enough for you? Maybe it's you who needs to reexamine what facts, & arguments you are bringing to the table and be better.
- Cush29

LOL, you know, if you are going debate, you really should get your facts straight or at least learn to read what the other person wrote. The comparison vs Hutchinson involved far more than one game. Again, if you want to be an bumhole, at least try to keep up so you don't appear to be an idiot also.

Another thing you got wrong... I do, and have, given him credit when he has been their best player, this year even, on these boards. I certainly don't hate him. Maybe he is a great guy, who knows. I do think he is a below average NHL goalie who chokes in big games.

See, you showed up here a couple weeks ago, and immediately decided you were going to be a Richard and respond with a sarcastic and derisive tone. You thought you'd have fun with me first. I am sorry things haven't gone the way you thought they would and now your feelings are hurt.

I assume Kerfoot is gone but that doesn’t get you enough. I don’t buy that Hyman says no to what he believes he deserves which is at the very least $4.5M but probably more.

I think the season tells what they do. If Freddie continues to improve over the next month they see if they can get him at a number they can live with. That likely costs them one of Rielly, Hyman or Nylander depending on what other things they want to do. If Nylander returns to last year’s form and if Rielly doesn’t get too carried away with pinch-itis, I think Hyman is the odd man out. That’s unless he’s gives them an amazing deal.
- Canada Cup

I disagree, they have few other players that play the way hyman does, they'll want him to stick around

LOL, you know, if you are going debate, you really should get your facts straight or at least learn to read what the other person wrote. The comparison vs Hutchinson involved far more than one game. Again, if you want to be an bumhole, at least try to keep up so you don't appear to be an idiot also.

Another thing you got wrong... I do, and have, given him credit when he has been their best player, this year even, on these boards. I certainly don't hate him. Maybe he is a great guy, who knows. I do think he is a below average NHL goalie who chokes in big games.

See, you showed up here a couple weeks ago, and immediately decided you were going to be a Richard and respond with a sarcastic and derisive tone. You thought you'd have fun with me first. I am sorry things haven't gone the way you thought they would and now your feelings are hurt.
- Aetherial

Lol My feelings are hurt? Far from it but do carry on telling me how I feel.

Keep calling me an bumhole all you like, the irony in you doing so while claiming I have behaved poorly and acted like a Richard is pretty rich. It I guess anyone who disagrees with you is an bumhole who acts like a Richard. That’s a shame, I have lots of great debates with people who have differing opinions than mine without them calling me an bumhole or accusing me of acting like a Richard because I disagree with them but clearly that’s not something your able to do.

It is what it is.

Yes I showed up here a couple weeks ago. Uh nope but ok, I decided to wade into the conversation a bit more then sure but I’ve been here a long time and seen lots of what you post so I have a good sense of how you feel about Anderson from that.


See it’s people like you that discourage open dialogue. You think because you are on here non stop and spout your opinion as fact that makes everyone who disagrees with you have a worthless opinion.

It’s sad really.

I’ve only given you the pompous attitude that you exude here - it’s not very friendly nor pleasant is it?

But hey - I don’t want to get you any more flustered than you already seem to be so you do you and I’ll just glide past your comments that I disagree with moving forward and hope that you are mature enough to do the same.

I’m out.
Ciao.