Had to check because with some the Fred hate is next level and the constant use of stats to proclaim how terrible he is was a constant until his #'s crept up above .900 for a SV%.

Then suddenly #'s didn't matter it was because of other, new and exciting reasons like not "winning a series deciding game" or "rebound control", "being on his chest too much" or whatever the soup de jour is.

I thought you were one of the folks who was in that boat.
- Cush29

I don't hate Fred by any stretch, I think he's good at times and others he needs to be better.

He was on a good stretch prior to the first Ottawa game, and that one was particularly disappointing as my biggest criticism against him would be consistency.

Despite how offended people get if you don't say he's perfect, I want him to succeed. I think the best path forward on that front is to give Campbell more starts. Andersen has never had to earn his starts, the challenge combined with added rest is good for him I think.

I do wonder what beyond this season looks like. I don't like the idea of having to pay a big number with significant term with what I've seen the last couple years, and that's a problem because quality replacements aren't on sale at Safeway.

But no... I'm not suggesting Hutchinson is better. Literally the only way you could think that is if you started watching the leafs (and hockey) on Monday.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!!!

Stats vs "The Eye Test"

Let's just admit it, some of you hate Gingers and you can't hide it.

There I said it.

Bunch of Anti-Ginger-ites
- Cush29

Someone posted that stupid Rick Astley 4K video yesterday and another guy commented, 'The 4k has washed this out. It has no soul.'

I was thinking, 'Rick Astley in 4k has stolen all your souls, you poor fools.'

Sign them both, move a forward.

( I say this without looking up DH’s age )
- Garnie

I think they already need to decide about losing one of Rielly, Freddie or Hyman. (I don’t think they move Willie unless he has a poop year)

It's why all roads lead back to Nylander. You can't trade Tavares. You'd never trade Matthews. Marner makes $10.9m and Nylander makes $6.9m, so the cap flexibility you get from moving Marner is appealing (you'd have $15.9 to work with, so you COULD sign both Hamilton and Rielly in that theoretical situation), but I think you get a lot more from Marner than you do from Willy. When Willy is at his best, he's a great player to have. He's a great skater, has a good shot, can be a game breaker and so on. When Marner is at his best, he's better. Over the past 3 years (ignoring the half year where Willy was here in name only), I would say that Marner is still more frequently at his best than Willy is.

So if you have to move a forward for cap space, all roads lead back to Nylander.
- Monkeypunk

Makes sense unless your dealing future forwards (and I'm not saying I would do this) but someone like Robertson I'm sure is intriguing and appealing to many teams.

Holy chit I just looked at the career #'s for Hamilton and Rielly - outside of the offensive stats (and I don't think you are giving up much and besides that the Leafs can afford less Offense from the Blue line. They just need guys who can hold the line and be very effective at breaking out of their own end and obviously being strong defensively.

One of these 2 players is a career -39
The other is a +58

Wow.

Probably right ....unless Dougie Hamilton goes to market and digs up his ol' jammies.

If DH's agent says "hey KD, my guy is keen to join up ..8 x 8 would do it"

Does KD move MR and lock into Dougie?

If DH isn't moving or wants too much then ya, I think it's Ride with Rielly.
- The Law

before you move rielly, you move brodie and/or muzzin.

I think they already need to decide about losing one of Rielly, Freddie or Hyman. (I don’t think they move Willie unless he has a poop year)
- Canada Cup

Fred’s probably gone or he’d be signed by now.

The Hamilton acquisition should have been done when the Canes grabbed him IMO

Someone posted that stupid Rick Astley 4K video yesterday and another guy commented, 'The 4k has washed this out. It has no soul.'

I was thinking, 'Rick Astley in 4k has stolen all your souls, you poor fools.'
- Monkeypunk

You think his last name would be Morningstar

Makes sense unless your dealing future forwards (and I'm not saying I would do this) but someone like Robertson I'm sure is intriguing and appealing to many teams.

Holy chit I just looked at the career #'s for Hamilton and Rielly - outside of the offensive stats (and I don't think you are giving up much and besides that the Leafs can afford less Offense from the Blue line. They just need guys who can hold the line and be very effective at breaking out of their own end and obviously being strong defensively.

One of these 2 players is a career -39
The other is a +58

Wow.
- Cush29

1’s had the best analytics in the league for a few years too

Someone posted that stupid Rick Astley 4K video yesterday and another guy commented, 'The 4k has washed this out. It has no soul.'

I was thinking, 'Rick Astley in 4k has stolen all your souls, you poor fools.'
- Monkeypunk

So (frank)in' weird, i just saw a tweet about this guy like 5 mins ago..

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!!!

Stats vs "The Eye Test"

Let's just admit it, some of you hate Gingers and you can't hide it.

There I said it.

Bunch of Anti-Ginger-ites
- Cush29

I'm a neutral. Goaltending is (frank)ed and unpredictable at the best of times.

For me there's maybe 3 or 4 guys in the league that you'd lock in at 7+ per year. Then there's a messy middle ground of about 20 guys that might be worth 4-6 per year. Then there's a handful of unproven/less proven cheap young guys making 3 or less.

Freddy's in that messy middle. He can range from bad to very good on any night ...like a lot of goalies.

Pick your poison.

For the Leafs are they better locking into Freddy if he's looking for 6 per year? Or, given their cap issues, should they be looking for some better value via a trade or a 1A/1B partnership with Campbell?

We have the rest of the year to let it play out.

I'm a neutral. Goaltending is (frank)ed and unpredictable at the best of times.

For me there's maybe 3 or 4 guys in the league that you'd lock in at 7+ per year. Then there's a messy middle ground of about 20 guys that might be worth 4-6 per year. Then there's a handful of unproven/less proven cheap young guys making 3 or less.

Freddy's in that messy middle. He can range from bad to very good on any night ...like a lot of goalies.

Pick your poison.

For the Leafs are they better locking into Freddy if he's looking for 6 per year? Or, given their cap issues, should they be looking for some better value via a trade or a 1A/1B partnership with Campbell?

We have the rest of the year to let it play out.
- The Law

Korpisalo or Merzlikins are probably the best bang for your buck

Imagine the marketing around Elvis in TO😳

It's why all roads lead back to Nylander. You can't trade Tavares. You'd never trade Matthews. Marner makes $10.9m and Nylander makes $6.9m, so the cap flexibility you get from moving Marner is appealing (you'd have $15.9 to work with, so you COULD sign both Hamilton and Rielly in that theoretical situation), but I think you get a lot more from Marner than you do from Willy. When Willy is at his best, he's a great player to have. He's a great skater, has a good shot, can be a game breaker and so on. When Marner is at his best, he's better. Over the past 3 years (ignoring the half year where Willy was here in name only), I would say that Marner is still more frequently at his best than Willy is.

So if you have to move a forward for cap space, all roads lead back to Nylander.
- Monkeypunk

Exactly same post from the summer except for Pietroangelo instead of Hamilton. I can resist going full Roger no longer so I’ll say, my view was get the guy we need (Brodie), not the guy we want.

The decision about moving Nylander plus to get Hamilton seems easy now when he’s not doing much and Matthews going beast mode is carrying the team. That won’t always be the case and having two elite scoring lines will be a key feature of the team.

Also, our defensive game has been really good this year. Up to the dumb Sens game, we were best Goals Against in the Division.

before you move rielly, you move brodie and/or muzzin.
- MaximusAurelius

You’re a min times wrong

Korpisalo or Merzlikins are probably the best bang for your buck

Imagine the marketing around Elvis in TO😳
- mr.sir

Korpisalo is a much much better goaltender than Elvis though.

In addition, Finnish goalies have worked out really well for the Leafs..

another variable - Krug signed in the heat of Covid and a unpredictable flat cap.

Rielly will come due in the summer of 22' with some greater financial optimism.

I'd say 8 x 7.5 is probably his ballpark extension if he puts up another good year.

That said ....I like Rielly but I'd be nervous giving it to him.
- The Law

No way he comes in under 8. I would even guess he is over 8.5.

before you move rielly, you move brodie and/or muzzin.
- MaximusAurelius

NTC/NMC ...

Although you could dangle them to Seattle in the expansion draft.

before you move rielly, you move brodie and/or muzzin.
- MaximusAurelius

Brodie and Muzzin have NMCs. They control whether that can happen or not.

NTC/NMC ...

Although you could dangle them to Seattle in the expansion draft.
- The Law

I'm pretty positive you're forced to protect anyone who has an NMC as a clause in the expansion draft rules.

I'm pretty positive you're forced to protect anyone who has an NMC as a clause in the expansion draft rules.
- Monkeypunk

this is correct

Had to check because with some the Fred hate is next level and the constant use of stats to proclaim how terrible he is was a constant until his #'s crept up above .900 for a SV%.

Then suddenly #'s didn't matter it was because of other, new and exciting reasons like not "winning a series deciding game" or "rebound control", "being on his chest too much" or whatever the soup de jour is.

I thought you were one of the folks who was in that boat.
- Cush29

Yeah, you forgot the part about whiffing on at least one goal in each series deciding game, throughout his career.

You also forgot sliding 3' wide of the net one simple saves... if he even manages to arrive on time.

I'm a neutral. Goaltending is (frank)ed and unpredictable at the best of times.

For me there's maybe 3 or 4 guys in the league that you'd lock in at 7+ per year. Then there's a messy middle ground of about 20 guys that might be worth 4-6 per year. Then there's a handful of unproven/less proven cheap young guys making 3 or less.

Freddy's in that messy middle. He can range from bad to very good on any night ...like a lot of goalies.

Pick your poison.

For the Leafs are they better locking into Freddy if he's looking for 6 per year? Or, given their cap issues, should they be looking for some better value via a trade or a 1A/1B partnership with Campbell?

We have the rest of the year to let it play out.
- The Law

I'm not a Freddy hater, but he's already making $5M a year, and to me that seems like an overpayment.

I know it's an incredibly limited sample size, but I prefer Campbell at less money than giving Freddie a new contract. Tough salary cap decisions are going to have to be made, I'm afraid.

Sorry, Freddie.

No way he comes in under 8. I would even guess he is over 8.5.
- Aetherial

If true then KD's decision is easy. Start the negotiations with DH's agent. Trade Rielly this summer for cool things.

I'm pretty positive you're forced to protect anyone who has an NMC as a clause in the expansion draft rules.
- Monkeypunk

Yes, but SN talked about this ....KD had made both contracts so that they could be exposed.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/...e-kraken-expansion-draft/

Yeah, you forgot the part about whiffing on at least one goal in each series deciding game, throughout his career.

You also forgot sliding 3' wide of the net one simple saves... if he even manages to arrive on time.
- Aetherial

Speaking of whiffs, the only part of the game I saw last night was the tail end of the third, Vesey carrying the puck into the oz, fanning on the shot, over to Kerfoot who completely fanned on the shot and the Sens broke the other way, with Kerplunk stumbling all over the place. I rechecked the score a couple times to make sure it was right.
For those 2 guys, I have some advice. It doesn’t matter how good you are, it’s about how good you look.

I'm not a Freddy hater, but he's already making $5M a year, and to me that seems like an overpayment.

I know it's an incredibly limited sample size, but I prefer Campbell at less money than giving Freddie a new contract. Tough salary cap decisions are going to have to be made, I'm afraid.

Sorry, Freddie.
- Atomic Wedgie

Agreed. I think the Cap is going to mean the only real choices are an inexpensive partner for Campbell or a trade for young affordable guy.

I have them with about 8 million to re-sign Hyman and Goalie. A goalie for 3 million or less gives you Hyman and maybe some more flexibility to tweak.