That’s why i think we are limited to change of scenery types. I’d say a line of crouse-jank-Virtanen is a hell of a lot better than with O’Connor and sceviour/Laff. Virtanen was just scratched and van has a lot of bad contracts so I’m sure they wouldn’t mind freeing up 2.5m for minimal.
- 10inchTerror

Crouse sucks. Lmao why do you guys feel the need to get dog poop players?

I just hope we can stop equating size with energy or being hard to play against or whatever.

Jankowski, Bjugstad, etc... these guys get extra points for being "big" but it has no impact on their game.

Otherwise, I actually agree with Burke's comments if it means Pittsburgh needing more guys like Tanev or Miles Wood or the like. And you can't deny that losing Reaves and Cole in favor of vanilla players had a negative impact.

2009- Penguins trade Whitney (seen as a skill guy) for Chris Kunitz- hard forechecking, body-banging role player with speed (and a shot)

2016- Penguins trade Perron (seen as a skill guy) for Carl Hagelin- hard forechecking, body banging role player with speed

2017- Already had the two aforementioned players and shored up D depth.

GMRW just loves his numbers and needles to move, but the numbers are right in front of him. Hard forecheckers with some speed are what is needed. People that teams do not want to run into. There are countless times a game when instead of laying the body into someone the Pens opt for the poke check. More often than not, this totally backfires. Time to get back to work- chip it in, bang a body, win the puck and get a shot off. The small speedy skill guys will always get figured out. No substitute for beef. Not saying to go and get a knuckledragger...but we need some beef.
- TheBrownListerine

Funny you should mention "chip it in." As I was watching turnover after turnover trying to gain the zone or just inside in the zone, I kept thinking to myself, "How about at least some dump-and-chase?" If you have speed and puck (retrieving) skills (which this team has), I think that could be a viable strategy instead of forcing pass after pass through multiple defenders. But, this is Sully we're talking about, god forbid he ever changes up his strategy to match his team and/or the opponent. It's the Sully System or bust.

Virtanen - Yes
Bennett - Maybe
Crouse - No

I was kind of thinking the opposite. They don't have any assets so they need to take some cheap gambles ala Sprong for Petterson.
- MacPatty

They have the following:
-2nd in 2021
-Full boat of picks in 2022
-Poulin, Legare, the two goalie prospects

These may not be sexy assets and yes I know the 2021 draft is crap, but in the right package they could help the Pens make some solid moves.

Funny you should mention "chip it in." As I was watching turnover after turnover trying to gain the zone or just inside in the zone, I kept thinking to myself, "How about at least some dump-and-chase?" If you have speed and puck (retrieving) skills (which this team has), I think that could be a viable strategy instead of forcing pass after pass through multiple defenders. But, this is Sully we're talking about, god forbid he ever changes up his strategy to match his team and/or the opponent. It's the Sully System or bust.
- Hockey66

Zucker is really good at this.

Crouse sucks. Lmao why do you guys feel the need to get dog poop players?
- Feds91Stammer

Don’t have a whole lot to trade. 1 left D, dumo preferably or petts, hopefully at some point. McCann, who is also one of our best bottom 6 as it is. Players who play well and have value won’t be received for our assets.

Say dumo/petts and McCann for mantha who isn’t all that much better than Virtanen and now you literally have nothing to trade and mantha playing with jankowski and O’Connor. Mantha would help the pp more but I’d still prefer Virtanen for the cap hit, resources to acquire, and availability.

Zucker is really good at this.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I think we have a lot of guys who are at least pretty good and dump-and-chase board battles and puck retrieval: Crosby, Rust, Malkin, Kap, Tanev, ZAR, Blueger, Sceviour, and sometimes the occasional defenseman like Letang, Ceci, Marino and POJ (not that I necessarily want them doing that but if the play is there...). But that's at least 2 guys on every forward line who are more than capable.

EDIT: It also has other benefits like pinning the opposition deep in their own end and wearing them out. Even if they do win the battle it's better to have them starting at their goal line than a turnover at the blue line or in the neutral zone for a quick break the other way. Yeah, I know the fancy stats crowd likes "controlled entries" and there is some benefit to that, too, but I think good teams do both depending on the situation. We pretty much only do one unless it is a dump-in during a shift change.

Must have been looking at your phone for the Cizikas goal too. The best goal of the game.

I wish people would stop quoting JFresh. The guy makes beautiful visualizations, but his hockey analysis is terrible.

Crouse sucks. Lmao why do you guys feel the need to get dog poop players?
- Feds91Stammer

He’s an upgrade to the bottom six compared to we have now and he’s cheap. He adds some sandpaper and can contribute offensively.

I’m pretty sure Burke addressed that skill must go with size/grit. I don’t think size is necessarily the issue. It’s playing with size. I mean being big helps that but Burke is right. The crease needs to be cleared. The other crease needs to not be clear. Someone willing to take a beating needs to go there. Big or not. Just a little size makes it easier.
- 10inchTerror

This is true, good post. The problem is usually mistakes are made when trying to get guys who blend size and skill and you just get big and slow. But the right targets exist.

And like Vic said later, getting grit and getting size don't have to be the same thing.

More times than not this year I find myself looking at my phone during the game. This isn’t an active choice it is a subconscious one. The product is bland. It doesn’t mean the team can’t compete and register victories it just means I find them boring. Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are still must watch shifts because at any moment they can still do something awesome, but everything else is low end with the odds of seeing something cool or fun very low. This is an entertainment product first and foremost. I don’t need a Stanley Cup to be entertained. All of the low event defense first depth players are a chore to watch most nights

I guess the goal of the Penguins is to entertain Ryan Wilson? Explains why he hates certain players though. It's not that they aren't good enough, they're just not entertaining enough.

More times than not this year I find myself looking at my phone during the game. This isn’t an active choice it is a subconscious one. The product is bland. It doesn’t mean the team can’t compete and register victories it just means I find them boring. Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are still must watch shifts because at any moment they can still do something awesome, but everything else is low end with the odds of seeing something cool or fun very low. This is an entertainment product first and foremost. I don’t need a Stanley Cup to be entertained. All of the low event defense first depth players are a chore to watch most nights

I guess the goal of the Penguins is to entertain Ryan Wilson? Explains why he hates certain players though. It's not that they aren't good enough, they're just not entertaining enough.
- Tojo.

That rubbed me the wrong way, too. I actually find end to end scoring where the final score is 6-5 or something kind of boring and lacking suspense. Some of the best games I've ever seen have ended with 0, 1, or 2 goals for either side. As long as the refs are calling interference and the like, I enjoy defensive battles and great goaltending. It makes goals that much more important and special. There is also a build-up of suspense of who will finally break through and hold on rather than whoever has the puck last will likely win.

Burke working on how the money will shake out in a Crosby for Tavares swap.

He’s an upgrade to the bottom six compared to we have now and he’s cheap. He adds some sandpaper and can contribute offensively.
- Rinosaur

No he’s not. Dude can’t score to save his life. Cool he runs around and hits people.

Burke working on how the money will shake out in a Crosby for Tavares swap.
- Byfuglien Ate Me

The answer is no.

The new president will get it right
It is not either-or, but the right guys need to play to their strengths. EROD is not a top-six guy, nor is he as efficient as a 4th player like Reeves. THE NEW PRESIDENT AND HIS 65 YEARS OF HOCKEY BACKGROUND WILL USE THE EYE TEST BEFORE USING THE CORSI NONSENSE. We don’t need corsi data to see that JJ was the worst defensemen in the league or #6 is having a terrible year. HCMS has tried to convince us that ITS IMPORTANT to have guys that move up and down the lineup. That will cost him his job. Jank is another guy who has no role…..big body, soft, no skill. What does he do? Take space……when a trade gets made, unlike the last 3 years under GMJR, the fan base will know what the player was brought in to do.(like Kessel) HCMS will not get away with what he has done with such players that fit the REEVES or PEARSON role. Both have been very successful in the roles they are currently asked to do. HCMS is on thin ice, change or your history!

The new president will get it right
It is not either-or, but the right guys need to play to their strengths. EROD is not a top-six guy, nor is he as efficient as a 4th player like Reeves. THE NEW PRESIDENT AND HIS 65 YEARS OF HOCKEY BACKGROUND WILL USE THE EYE TEST BEFORE USING THE CORSI NONSENSE. We don’t need corsi data to see that JJ was the worst defensemen in the league or #6 is having a terrible year. HCMS has tried to convince us that ITS IMPORTANT to have guys that move up and down the lineup. That will cost him his job. Jank is another guy who has no role…..big body, soft, no skill. What does he do? Take space……when a trade gets made, unlike the last 3 years under GMJR, the fan base will know what the player was brought in to do.(like Kessel) HCMS will not get away with what he has done with such players that fit the REEVES or PEARSON role. Both have been very successful in the roles they are currently asked to do. HCMS is on thin ice, change or your history!
- Malkin

TL;DR

Pretty ironic Rutherford correctly diagnosed the Penguins lack of "net front" when he was hired, then leaves the team with the same problem when he quits. What f'n disaster that trade has become.

Like others are saying... Being a little bigger and tougher doesn't mean you can't play.

Not a huge fan of ZAR, but he actually played one of his best games last night. Sounds like he's had that shoulder problem for a few years. I'll be interested to see if he's able to raise his level of play after having the surgery.

The new president will get it right
It is not either-or, but the right guys need to play to their strengths. EROD is not a top-six guy, nor is he as efficient as a 4th player like Reeves. THE NEW PRESIDENT AND HIS 65 YEARS OF HOCKEY BACKGROUND WILL USE THE EYE TEST BEFORE USING THE CORSI NONSENSE. We don’t need corsi data to see that JJ was the worst defensemen in the league or #6 is having a terrible year. HCMS has tried to convince us that ITS IMPORTANT to have guys that move up and down the lineup. That will cost him his job. Jank is another guy who has no role…..big body, soft, no skill. What does he do? Take space……when a trade gets made, unlike the last 3 years under GMJR, the fan base will know what the player was brought in to do.(like Kessel) HCMS will not get away with what he has done with such players that fit the REEVES or PEARSON role. Both have been very successful in the roles they are currently asked to do. HCMS is on thin ice, change or your history!
- Malkin

I don’t see sulsma going anywhere anytime soon unfortunately.

More times than not this year I find myself looking at my phone during the game. This isn’t an active choice it is a subconscious one. The product is bland. It doesn’t mean the team can’t compete and register victories it just means I find them boring. Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin are still must watch shifts because at any moment they can still do something awesome, but everything else is low end with the odds of seeing something cool or fun very low. This is an entertainment product first and foremost. I don’t need a Stanley Cup to be entertained. All of the low event defense first depth players are a chore to watch most nights

I guess the goal of the Penguins is to entertain Ryan Wilson? Explains why he hates certain players though. It's not that they aren't good enough, they're just not entertaining enough.
- Tojo.

Not sure of the point of this rant. Barzell wasn't the only guy skating around our defense first players. If the point is to watch a team that doesn't play defense, there is always Edmonton or Vancouver.

Not a huge fan of ZAR, but he actually played one of his best games last night. Sounds like he's had that shoulder problem for a few years. I'll be interested to see if he's able to raise his level of play after having the surgery.
- madmike71

Maybe since Tom Wilson ran him? But yeah, big guys who hit BAD!

ZAR was definitely one of the best players along with Rust and...Ceci? That's not ideal, but still good to see from him. He's 26 so maybe we'll get "prime" ZAR for a couple years.

Not a huge fan of ZAR, but he actually played one of his best games last night. Sounds like he's had that shoulder problem for a few years. I'll be interested to see if he's able to raise his level of play after having the surgery.
- madmike71

He did play well ....he does play a heavy game. Time will tell