Haha are you insinuating the owners setup for another team to hire Sullivan right after we fire him😉
- 668710

Haha, that would be funny. Maybe not right after to avoid suspicion. "Hey, we'll give you a X draft if you hire this guy. We'll just do a trade for scrubs in the offseason and throw in a X draft pick for your trouble."

As I recall, it has to be for the same position, so if he gets hired as an assistant it doesn't count. I could be totally wrong about this but for some reason it comes to mind.

Correct, but Sullivan won't need to take the first job offered. he may choose to take a year or two of paid vacation. I would.
- madmike71

Bylsma did that lol

Haha, that would be funny. Maybe not right after to avoid suspicion. "Hey, we'll give you a X draft if you hire this guy. We'll just do a trade for scrubs in the offseason and throw in a X draft pick for your trouble."

As I recall, it has to be for the same position, so if he gets hired as an assistant it doesn't count. I could be totally wrong about this but for some reason it comes to mind.
- Hockey66

I'm not sure on the position part either.

Correct, but Sullivan won't need to take the first job offered. he may choose to take a year or two of paid vacation. I would.
- madmike71

I would, too, but maybe they'll get lucky. I bet he would jump at the Bruins job right away if it opened up (which is unlikely that it would or that they would want him).

Who knows, maybe it's bad for coaches to be out of the game for a bit. Maybe teams start to forget about them. Just wishful thinking on a lot of different avenues here haha.

I would, too, but maybe they'll get lucky. I bet he would jump at the Bruins job right away if it opened up (which is unlikely that it would or that they would want him).

Who knows, maybe it's bad for coaches to be out of the game for a bit. Maybe teams start to forget about them. Just wishful thinking on a lot of different avenues here haha.
- Hockey66

I mean I personally could retire on 1 year of his salary, let alone a 3 year paid vacation still. I think being fired should terminate a contract personally. Blows me away that it doesn’t. Either way I hope his days are numbered. I don’t know anything about the business but if I were gm I’d imagine I would be telling the coach what type of team I’m going to be building so his coaching can reflect that. Hint hint. Guess we will see.

Unfortunately (I think) it looks like the big guns are starting to fire. And heaven forbid if Letang even remotely finds his game those 3 could keep sully around a lot longer than desired.

The more I think about it, the less I think a rebuild is the answer here. We have two generational players... to be honest, we may not get another one in our life times, that's just the reality of it. To me, we'd be crazy to rebuild and say it will only be 3 years. A best case scenario is 3 years. You need to finish really bad to get top draft picks or you need to get lucky like Chicago/Rangers did and get into the top 3 despite finishing outside the top 3.

What we need is to address our needs in free agency and in trades. Most of all, we need to play a game that is realistic of our lineup. I like Sullivan, he is easily a top 3 coach ever to coach the Penguins and accomplished back to back Cups, that isnt an easy accolade. However, he looks like he still is trying to play a style like its 2016 still.

I agree with Hextall/Burke that we should see where this team goes. They should still make a hockey trade if it makes sense, but i wouldnt trade our second round pick since its the only top pick we have in the first 3 rounds. This offseason, I'd work to clear the cap to go after one or two impactful free agents, similar to what we tried in 2012 with Suter and Parise (thank goodness we didnt get stuck with those contracts).

The more I think about it, the less I think a rebuild is the answer here. We have two generational players... to be honest, we may not get another one in our life times, that's just the reality of it. To me, we'd be crazy to rebuild and say it will only be 3 years. A best case scenario is 3 years. You need to finish really bad to get top draft picks or you need to get lucky like Chicago/Rangers did and get into the top 3 despite finishing outside the top 3.

What we need is to address our needs in free agency and in trades. Most of all, we need to play a game that is realistic of our lineup. I like Sullivan, he is easily a top 3 coach ever to coach the Penguins and accomplished back to back Cups, that isnt an easy accolade. However, he looks like he still is trying to play a style like its 2016 still.

I agree with Hextall/Burke that we should see where this team goes. They should still make a hockey trade if it makes sense, but i wouldnt trade our second round pick since its the only top pick we have in the first 3 rounds. This offseason, I'd work to clear the cap to go after one or two impactful free agents, similar to what we tried in 2012 with Suter and Parise (thank goodness we didnt get stuck with those contracts).
- SuperHenderson13

Well it sounds like hextall’s biggest knock is evaluating nhl talent so we will see what his trades look like. Either way I’m excited for something to happen. Like a damn game finally.

The more I think about it, the less I think a rebuild is the answer here. We have two generational players... to be honest, we may not get another one in our life times, that's just the reality of it. To me, we'd be crazy to rebuild and say it will only be 3 years. A best case scenario is 3 years. You need to finish really bad to get top draft picks or you need to get lucky like Chicago/Rangers did and get into the top 3 despite finishing outside the top 3.

What we need is to address our needs in free agency and in trades. Most of all, we need to play a game that is realistic of our lineup. I like Sullivan, he is easily a top 3 coach ever to coach the Penguins and accomplished back to back Cups, that isnt an easy accolade. However, he looks like he still is trying to play a style like its 2016 still.

I agree with Hextall/Burke that we should see where this team goes. They should still make a hockey trade if it makes sense, but i wouldnt trade our second round pick since its the only top pick we have in the first 3 rounds. This offseason, I'd work to clear the cap to go after one or two impactful free agents, similar to what we tried in 2012 with Suter and Parise (thank goodness we didnt get stuck with those contracts).
- SuperHenderson13

That's been my whole point this whole time. Crosby and Malkin are historical players. I don't want to tear it all down and see them in other sweaters just on the off chance we may expedite a rebuild that may or may not eventually yield a Cup one day. Most likely scenario is that our rebuild will still be super long and we'll need to get incredibly lucky to build another team with Cup potential. Not every draft yields a McDavid or Matthews. You can just as well end up with just a Jack Hughes, or an Aaron Ekblad, or heaven forbid a Nail Yakupov.

The more I think about it, the less I think a rebuild is the answer here. We have two generational players... to be honest, we may not get another one in our life times, that's just the reality of it. To me, we'd be crazy to rebuild and say it will only be 3 years. A best case scenario is 3 years. You need to finish really bad to get top draft picks or you need to get lucky like Chicago/Rangers did and get into the top 3 despite finishing outside the top 3.

What we need is to address our needs in free agency and in trades. Most of all, we need to play a game that is realistic of our lineup. I like Sullivan, he is easily a top 3 coach ever to coach the Penguins and accomplished back to back Cups, that isnt an easy accolade. However, he looks like he still is trying to play a style like its 2016 still.

I agree with Hextall/Burke that we should see where this team goes. They should still make a hockey trade if it makes sense, but i wouldnt trade our second round pick since its the only top pick we have in the first 3 rounds. This offseason, I'd work to clear the cap to go after one or two impactful free agents, similar to what we tried in 2012 with Suter and Parise (thank goodness we didnt get stuck with those contracts).
- SuperHenderson13

I've listened to some of the interviews. Both Hextall and Burke intimated a rebuild is coming. When that happens has yet to be determined.

I still like this roster....mostly. Hopefully we get healthy at some point. I'm very worried they've tuned out the coach. I don't blame Sully. Just seems like coaches have a shelf life. If a team is giving up 3 on 0's.....that's not a system thing or a coach thing. That's a bunch of players being mentally out to lunch.

In the short term, the Pens need to play much better team defense and the tender needs to be waaaay better.

Bob McKenzie saying the Penguins attempted to bring MAF back during the offseason with Rutherford and Allvin attempted it during the last few weeks.

I'm trying to understand a deal that would make sense, but I cant.

That's been my whole point this whole time. Crosby and Malkin are historical players. I don't want to tear it all down and see them in other sweaters just on the off chance we may expedite a rebuild that may or may not eventually yield a Cup one day. Most likely scenario is that our rebuild will still be super long and we'll need to get incredibly lucky to build another team with Cup potential. Not every draft yields a McDavid or Matthews. You can just as well end up with just a Jack Hughes, or an Aaron Ekblad, or heaven forbid a Nail Yakupov.
- Victoro311

I totally get this point of view and line of reasoning. In fact, I think there are compelling reasons for everything from staying to course to completely blowing it up and everything in between. However, I tend to favor the complete blow up end of the spectrum. Here's why:

* The Pens haven't been truly competitive in a LONG time. The chances of them being truly competitive this year or next are slim, IMO. Zero cap room next year already with no expendable players or movable contracts.

* The core (Crosby, Malkin, Letang and even Dumo) are only getting older, more injured, and less effective. The odds that they rebound to Cup level play are also slim, IMO.

* You almost have to put sentimentality aside and just view the players as assets. In this case, they are rapidly depreciating assets. We can get something for them now or wait and get much less or nothing for them. We will never get more for them than we will now.

* Rebuilds are all about getting as many good ping pong balls as possible to increase the odds of hitting the jackpot (or two), not only with the lottery but just draft picks in general.

I look at this team from a probability of being competitive from either staying the course or a re-tool / mini-rebuild. I don't see it, but I could be wrong. Then I look at from a cost / benefit analysis of getting the most for the assets or doing nothing with a time horizon always in the background.

Bob McKenzie saying the Penguins attempted to bring MAF back during the offseason with Rutherford and Allvin attempted it during the last few weeks.

I'm trying to understand a deal that would make sense, but I cant.
- SuperHenderson13

Well, they were obviously keen on moving Horny so I'm guessing that was attempted.

I totally get this point of view and line of reasoning. In fact, I think there are compelling reasons for everything from staying to course to completely blowing it up and everything in between. However, I tend to favor the complete blow up end of the spectrum. Here's why:

* The Pens haven't been truly competitive in a LONG time. The chances of them being truly competitive this year or next are slim, IMO. Zero cap room next year already with no expendable players or movable contracts.

* The core (Crosby, Malkin, Letang and even Dumo) are only getting older, more injured, and less effective. The odds that they rebound to Cup level play are also slim, IMO.

* You almost have to put sentimentality aside and just view the players as assets. In this case, they are rapidly depreciating assets. We can get something for them now or wait and get much less or nothing for them. We will never get more for them than we will now.

* Rebuilds are all about getting as many good ping pong balls as possible to increase the odds of hitting the jackpot (or two), not only with the lottery but just draft picks in general.

I look at this team from a probability of being competitive from either staying the course or a re-tool / mini-rebuild. I don't see it, but I could be wrong. Then I look at from a cost / benefit analysis of getting the most for the assets or doing nothing with a time horizon always in the background.
- Hockey66

Completely different situation from Jagr

Well, they were obviously keen on moving Horny so I'm guessing that was attempted.
- Hockey66

If they really wanted MAF they should have not moved Horny for worse crap lol

Bob McKenzie saying the Penguins attempted to bring MAF back during the offseason with Rutherford and Allvin attempted it during the last few weeks.

I'm trying to understand a deal that would make sense, but I cant.
- SuperHenderson13

They’d have been looking for a 3rd team to carry salary. My guess would be Tanev (or McCann) and DeSmith, Vegas gives the 3rd team a pick to hold about 2.5 million. We get Flower with a 4.5-5 million cap hit

Flowers got value to Vegas in the condensed season, but they’ll move him off their books if they can with an eye on next year

I’m all for it. MAF is the missing piece. I think we’d turn the switch and play some inspired hockey with him back

They’d have been looking for a 3rd team to carry salary. My guess would be Tanev (or McCann) and DeSmith, Vegas gives the 3rd team a pick to hold about 2.5 million. We get Flower with a 4.5-5 million cap hit

Flowers got value to Vegas in the condensed season, but they’ll move him off their books if they can with an eye on next year

I’m all for it. MAF is the missing piece. I think we’d turn the switch and play some inspired hockey with him back
- TheGame316

I’d almost like to see Tanev play somewhere where is full potential could be realized.

I’d almost like to see Tanev play somewhere where is full potential could be realized.
- Grinder47

Patience haha. I don't want Tanev going anywhere.

They’d have been looking for a 3rd team to carry salary. My guess would be Tanev (or McCann) and DeSmith, Vegas gives the 3rd team a pick to hold about 2.5 million. We get Flower with a 4.5-5 million cap hit

Flowers got value to Vegas in the condensed season, but they’ll move him off their books if they can with an eye on next year

I’m all for it. MAF is the missing piece. I think we’d turn the switch and play some inspired hockey with him back
- TheGame316

Ehh Vegas would just expose Fleury and Seattle would eat that up. A great personality and good goalie to start a franchise. I think they would be ok on that front in the off-season. But you can never rule out them trading him. Just saying I think they would be safe with Fleury being picked by Seattle.

Completely different situation from Jagr
- 668710

Don't you start in now.

Ehh Vegas would just expose Fleury and Seattle would eat that up. A great personality and good goalie to start a franchise. I think they would be ok on that front in the off-season. But you can never rule out them trading him. Just saying I think they would be safe with Fleury being picked by Seattle.
- 668710

Fleury has a modified NTC. Doesn't that eliminate him from being eligible?

Fleury has a modified NTC. Doesn't that eliminate him from being eligible?
- MacPatty

He had one here too. If Fleury wants to stay in Vegas he has every power to but you can’t rule out a goalie wanting to get out of a situation where there’s another high priced starter on the payroll. Tenders hate goalie controversy.

Sully is going to get a fair shake. There is serious dysfunction here, only question is if it's player or staff driven.

I mentioned a Malkin to Vegas deal yesterday, which I'd love to see happen. I wonder though if Letang would also make sense there.

Vegas has only 2 D worth protecting and currently no goalie to expose since they both have NTCs maybe its Letang and not Malkin going there?

Letang & Desmith for Fleury and my boy Glass is one I would jump at. Even Fleury and a 1st and 2nd or 3rd would be good.

Attach a first to Matheson for Seattle. Now you have some cap space to play with and you can run a D by committee like the last time the Pens won the cup without Letang.

Sully is going to get a fair shake. There is serious dysfunction here, only question is if it's player or staff driven.

I mentioned a Malkin to Vegas deal yesterday, which I'd love to see happen. I wonder though if Letang would also make sense there.

Vegas has only 2 D worth protecting and currently no goalie to expose since they both have NTCs maybe its Letang and not Malkin going there?

Letang & Desmith for Fleury and my boy Glass is one I would jump at. Even Fleury and a 1st and 2nd or 3rd would be good.

Attach a first to Matheson for Seattle. Now you have some cap space to play with and you can run a D by committee like the last time the Pens won the cup without Letang.
- MacPatty

Yeah because those results are definitely repeatable.

Don't you start in now.
- Hockey66

I was just (frank)ing around lol 🤣

Fleury has a modified NTC. Doesn't that eliminate him from being eligible?
- MacPatty

I thought you needed a NMC because it's not a trade?