Not even at 1/4 way yet. More injuries than any other team so far plus a few brand new pieces figuring it out. Some hands need to chill with the hot take pre mature assessments given all the circumstances so far this season and pre season.
- MattStrat

Well, the last 3 years have been miserable failures and we just traded away one of our only bona fide playoff performers and the only net-front presence. Seeing where this team is likely going is a pretty easy take. Just too many better teams out there regardless of injuries.

Well, the last 3 years have been miserable failures and we just traded away one of our only bona fide playoff performers and the only net-front presence. Seeing where this team is likely going is a pretty easy take. Just too many better teams out there regardless of injuries.
- Hockey66

There's a lot of context to the past 3 seasons haha

You said something the other day to the effect of what's Geno's or the others excuses when PO Joe just comes in and plays great....totally ignoring the fact the 21 year old had around 3 extra weeks of training and practice with the team before any game action.

If the Pens had more solid goaltending so far or if their PP/PK improved they'd be top 2 in division right now...at less than the 1/4 mark of the season. The PP/PK will improve after Sully is axed.

I can't think of a physical defenseman in WBS. I don't really expect any defensemen from there to help us this year. POJ was the one to watch. Maniscalco, Lee, and Reilly all are interesting but also all rookie pros so I'm not counting on them yet.
- Tojo.

I am certain there are players that both Hextall and Burke like who are buried in other organizations or playing oversees. Those are the moves I see happening first.

With no physical defensemen in WBS, that only makes this task easier. Sign two or three physical d-men and release whoever. Of course you are getting AHL type players, but these will be guys who Hextall thinks are talented and other organizations disagree. Remember they will be injury replacements.

Pure stats nerds still try to poop on them.

Hockey people that value stats understand that their stats aren't great but realize they bring something that stats can't quantify, and that is heart, passion, and emotion. That can feed adrenaline and emotion throughout the whole team.
- Feds91Stammer

Some character development from the typically predictable Feds91Stammer

I am certain there are players that both Hextall and Burke like who are buried in other organizations or playing oversees. Those are the moves I see happening first.

With no physical defensemen in WBS, that only makes this task easier. Sign two or three physical d-men and release whoever. Of course you are getting AHL type players, but these will be guys who Hextall thinks are talented and other organizations disagree. Remember they will be injury replacements.
- Thunderbolt

And when the alternative is Webber or Church, it doesn’t really matter anyways.

Some character development from the typically predictable Feds91Stammer
- Victoro311

hahaha yeah I read that comment twice to make sure it was him and what he was saying. I liked it.

I am certain there are players that both Hextall and Burke like who are buried in other organizations or playing oversees. Those are the moves I see happening first.

With no physical defensemen in WBS, that only makes this task easier. Sign two or three physical d-men and release whoever. Of course you are getting AHL type players, but these will be guys who Hextall thinks are talented and other organizations disagree. Remember they will be injury replacements.
- Thunderbolt

Ok gotcha those would be good moves if they can find some guys like that to restock the system with.

I got no idea who next man up in WBS is. If you include Trotman being out, we've gone 12 deep already.

Some character development from the typically predictable Feds91Stammer
- Victoro311

Either that or it's write a couple lines, take a nip, write some more, take a nip...

Not even at 1/4 way yet. More injuries than any other team so far plus a few brand new pieces figuring it out. Some hands need to chill with the hot take pre mature assessments given all the circumstances so far this season and pre season.
- MattStrat

I would agree with this statement if this was strictly to do with being banged up and/or personnel. We saw it in the first two healthy games of the season, the system had no changed. I've banged on about this incessantly, but...

1) Pens PP does the same thing it's done for the last two years. It's a system issue.

2) With possession of the puck 5v5, the Pens look to set up plays around the perimeter in essence setting up like a PP in which the same system and decision issues follow: Looking for that perfect set up and not shooting enough.

3) When healthy or injured, they do not drive play towards the net. I don't mean net-front presence, I mean directing play to the net, not the perimeter.

4) Healthy or injured, they allow opposing players free reign on our goalies. The opposite of what we do with the puck. The Pens do not attempt to keep teams to the perimeter. This is a strategy/system issue, nothing to do with personnel since it's done when healthy or injured.

There are lots of little things we could nitpick, but IMO these are the most egregious issues facing the Pens and when you see the same game plans that's failed the last two season continuing in this one, I don't think you need much more of a sample size.

I've said before that I don't think any major moves should be made yet. I firmly believe they need a new coach for the rest of the season to see what this team can do with a fresh strategy.

I would agree with this statement if this was strictly to do with being banged up and/or personnel. We saw it in the first two healthy games of the season, the system had no changed. I've banged on about this incessantly, but...

1) Pens PP does the same thing it's done for the last two years. It's a system issue.

2) With possession of the puck 5v5, the Pens look to set up plays around the perimeter in essence setting up like a PP in which the same system and decision issues follow: Looking for that perfect set up and not shooting enough.

3) When healthy or injured, they do not drive play towards the net. I don't mean net-front presence, I mean directing play to the net, not the perimeter.

4) Healthy or injured, they allow opposing players free reign on our goalies. The opposite of what we do with the puck. The Pens do not attempt to keep teams to the perimeter. This is a strategy/system issue, nothing to do with personnel since it's done when healthy or injured.

There are lots of little things we could nitpick, but IMO these are the most egregious issues facing the Pens and when you see the same game plans that's failed the last two season continuing in this one, I don't think you need much more of a sample size.

I've said before that I don't think any major moves should be made yet. I firmly believe they need a new coach for the rest of the season to see what this team can do with fresh strategy.
- Rinosaur

Yup systemic needs have to come first. If they plan on giving sully some wiggle room they should at least hire gallant or whoever they like as an assistant for now.

Yup systemic needs have to come first. If they plan on giving sully some wiggle room they should at least hire gallant or whoever they like as an assistant for now.
- 10inchTerror

When all the injuries hit them last season, we saw this team change their system. They actually went back to the style of play that gave them success in the 16 cup run. When everyone came back from being injured they regressed to what they're doing now.

Obviously approaching players like Sid, Geno and Letang are vastly different than how you approach Zucker, Tanev or McCann and I have ZERO clue how Sully handles that, but it doesn't appear like he's in control. I don't mean this in a negative way towards Sid, Geno or Letang, but as brilliant as they are, they need a coach who's going to break through and get them a bit more structured.

I don't think Sully has necessarily lost the room, but he's lost the players he can't afford to lose.

I would agree with this statement if this was strictly to do with being banged up and/or personnel. We saw it in the first two healthy games of the season, the system had no changed. I've banged on about this incessantly, but...

1) Pens PP does the same thing it's done for the last two years. It's a system issue.

2) With possession of the puck 5v5, the Pens look to set up plays around the perimeter in essence setting up like a PP in which the same system and decision issues follow: Looking for that perfect set up and not shooting enough.

3) When healthy or injured, they do not drive play towards the net. I don't mean net-front presence, I mean directing play to the net, not the perimeter.

4) Healthy or injured, they allow opposing players free reign on our goalies. The opposite of what we do with the puck. The Pens do not attempt to keep teams to the perimeter. This is a strategy/system issue, nothing to do with personnel since it's done when healthy or injured.

There are lots of little things we could nitpick, but IMO these are the most egregious issues facing the Pens and when you see the same game plans that's failed the last two season continuing in this one, I don't think you need much more of a sample size.

I've said before that I don't think any major moves should be made yet. I firmly believe they need a new coach for the rest of the season to see what this team can do with a fresh strategy.
- Rinosaur

The only game I didnt watch at least 2/3rds of was game 2 vs. the Flyers and when I stopped in here you were actually saying they played really great that game and I said I loved hearing you, a harsh critic of them, saying that.


1) I agree. Thats why I said it will improve after Sully is axed.

2) They've been shooting a lot more in the latest games (or last night)

3) As Vic pointed out last night they were going around the net a lot

4) I agree. Could use a bit more muscle there. That can be obtained and will also change when Sully is axed.

I'm all about getting a new coach and I think we see one this season.

My post was about the writing off of them by some already.

The naysayers and negative have an amazing chance at being right about this season, that the Pens wont win the cup. That could go for most seasons.

I remember a lot of naysayers in January 2009 and January 2016.

Before this season started I was one of the ones saying they prob wont make playoffs. That is still very possible but through everything so far I've seen a lot I've liked and actually feel a tiny bit better about them than before season started.

The naysayers and negative have an amazing chance at being right about this season, that the Pens wont win the cup. That could go for most seasons.

I remember a lot of naysayers in January 2009 and January 2016.

Before this season started I was one of the ones saying they prob wont make playoffs. That is still very possible but through everything so far I've seen a lot I've liked and actually feel a tiny bit better about them than before season started.
- MattStrat

I was one who wasn't worried about making the playoffs coming in but haven't liked what I've seen. I think there is a lot of mediocre in the division after the top 3 teams right now and I do agree with you that there is plenty of time to right the ship.

It's not being reactionary if the problems were the ones I worried about coming into the season. Goaltending and the core slipping due to age were by far my biggest concerns. That the PP would be worse, Sully would continue to make questionable line up calls, the 3rd pair of Matheson-Ceci, and depth scoring were the others.

So far, goaltending is horrendous and the core seems to mostly be at a lower level. Don't fix both of those and the team has no shot.

PP has been awful. ERod may be the one really questionable so far. Ceci has been ok, Matheson stinks, but POJ's emergence can more than mitigate that.

Depth scoring hasn't been an issue, but much depends on guys like Blueger continuing to produce. As a guy who pegged Rust as a career middle 6 guy before last season and was wrong, I think people have buried the potential of a lot of those guys who might have more to give offensively, particularly Blueger and ZAR. This isn't a prediction, just a possibility.

Some character development from the typically predictable Feds91Stammer
- Victoro311

Stats have evolved and so has the understanding of them. Preaching upon them the same way one might have 5 years ago is just another form of little man syndrome.

So any coach would at least play DeSmith until he loses right? Even though he’s not great he’s getting W’s.

The naysayers and negative have an amazing chance at being right about this season, that the Pens wont win the cup. That could go for most seasons.

I remember a lot of naysayers in January 2009 and January 2016.

Before this season started I was one of the ones saying they prob wont make playoffs. That is still very possible but through everything so far I've seen a lot I've liked and actually feel a tiny bit better about them than before season started.
- MattStrat

I mean in all fairness it’s a hard trophy to win at the best of times.

But they seem to have a lot of fight this year. The amount of come from behind games to win is impressive. Especially the 2 or 3 in a row from being down by 2 goals. I think a focus on the areas in front of both nets and a shoot first mentality drastically alters the competition vs this team. At least i think they would be shoe-ins for the playoffs.

Now the playoffs are a different beast, and to a degree so is this season due to the inner-division play, because you actually need to coach and adjust, not just play. Which is where sulsma just doesn’t cut it.

So any coach would at least play DeSmith until he loses right? Even though he’s not great he’s getting W’s.
- Grinder47

I think I’d give cds the next game and if the team plays decent I’d go back to jarry for a couple. Unfortunately with lehner’s injury I think fleury is out of the cards for a while.

Also, god damn those vegas gold helmets are terrible.

I think I’d give cds the next game and if the team plays decent I’d go back to jarry for a couple. Unfortunately with lehner’s injury I think fleury is out of the cards for a while.
- 10inchTerror

Sounds like MAF was not for sale anyway. LV said they need both tenders for such a condensed schedule. The Pens tried twice and were told NFS. Gotta look elsewhere.

I was one who wasn't worried about making the playoffs coming in but haven't liked what I've seen. I think there is a lot of mediocre in the division after the top 3 teams right now and I do agree with you that there is plenty of time to right the ship.

It's not being reactionary if the problems were the ones I worried about coming into the season. Goaltending and the core slipping due to age were by far my biggest concerns. That the PP would be worse, Sully would continue to make questionable line up calls, the 3rd pair of Matheson-Ceci, and depth scoring were the others.

So far, goaltending is horrendous and the core seems to mostly be at a lower level. Don't fix both of those and the team has no shot.

PP has been awful. ERod may be the one really questionable so far. Ceci has been ok, Matheson stinks, but POJ's emergence can more than mitigate that.

Depth scoring hasn't been an issue, but much depends on guys like Blueger continuing to produce. As a guy who pegged Rust as a career middle 6 guy before last season and was wrong, I think people have buried the potential of a lot of those guys who might have more to give offensively, particularly Blueger and ZAR. This isn't a prediction, just a possibility.
- Tojo.

I mean I agree with everything you're saying here but personally, after only 12 games and all the sh!t the on ice team and organization have gone through in a month, I can't make any solid assumptions or predictions yet.

Again, the serious doubters have a great chance at being right this season, I would never argue that. I'm just not to a place of comfortable doubt yet.

I mean in all fairness it’s a hard trophy to win at the best of times.

But they seem to have a lot of fight this year. The amount of come from behind games to win is impressive. Especially the 2 or 3 in a row from being down by 2 goals. I think a focus on the areas in front of both nets and a shoot first mentality drastically alters the competition vs this team. At least i think they would be shoe-ins for the playoffs.

Now the playoffs are a different beast, and to a degree so is this season due to the inner-division play, because you actually need to coach and adjust, not just play. Which is where sulsma just doesn’t cut it.
- 10inchTerror

Suslma for the win hahaha

I would agree with this statement if this was strictly to do with being banged up and/or personnel. We saw it in the first two healthy games of the season, the system had no changed. I've banged on about this incessantly, but...

1) Pens PP does the same thing it's done for the last two years. It's a system issue.

2) With possession of the puck 5v5, the Pens look to set up plays around the perimeter in essence setting up like a PP in which the same system and decision issues follow: Looking for that perfect set up and not shooting enough.

3) When healthy or injured, they do not drive play towards the net. I don't mean net-front presence, I mean directing play to the net, not the perimeter.

4) Healthy or injured, they allow opposing players free reign on our goalies. The opposite of what we do with the puck. The Pens do not attempt to keep teams to the perimeter. This is a strategy/system issue, nothing to do with personnel since it's done when healthy or injured.

There are lots of little things we could nitpick, but IMO these are the most egregious issues facing the Pens and when you see the same game plans that's failed the last two season continuing in this one, I don't think you need much more of a sample size.

I've said before that I don't think any major moves should be made yet. I firmly believe they need a new coach for the rest of the season to see what this team can do with a fresh strategy.
- Rinosaur

Nah. It's more personnel related, could a system be built around who they have? Sure, but looking at who left the PP the last few seasons, it's definitely more personnel.

No playmaker on the left wall makes that side of the ice useless.
No net front presence makes shooting useless.

Pens PP last season with Horny v Jake was stark difference.
Pens PP season before with Phil was stark difference.

Nah. It's more personnel related, could a system be built around who they have? Sure, but looking at who left the PP the last few seasons, it's definitely more personnel.

No playmaker on the left wall makes that side of the ice useless.
No net front presence makes shooting useless.

Pens PP last season with Horny v Jake was stark difference.
Pens PP season before with Phil was stark difference.
- j.boyd919

PP was also sh!t with all those guys on the roster when Mike Johnston was behind the bench....except Jake but Jake isnt a PP stud...

I noticed Geno smiling and laughing a few times away from play last night. A great sign.