I understand that; point is Crosby doesn't very likely want to hear it. You think he gives a poop about 1st rd picks in the next few years?

Only real assets they may want to move are Malkin letang dumoulin maybe a zucker. With the cap the way it is what is the market for said players? Will have to take money back pretty much. The pens job wont be easy for anyone; especially if they dont tear it down
- login

If Zucker went on the market, would not be surprised if Fletcher was interested, though the cap hit is a detractor. Zucker is still young and his best years were in MN when Fletcher was GM.

I understand that; point is Crosby doesn't very likely want to hear it. You think he gives a poop about 1st rd picks in the next few years?

Only real assets they may want to move are Malkin letang dumoulin maybe a zucker. With the cap the way it is what is the market for said players? Will have to take money back pretty much. The pens job wont be easy for anyone; especially if they dont tear it down
- login

They couldn't even beat that Habs last playoff. I expect JR wanted to keep on trading picks/prospects for one more run and ownership wanted a re tool at least. Crosby is also smart enough to realize that status quo doesn't work and would prob support change like this.. Don't discount the fact that he has 3 cups and his legacy is largely cemented.

Retools on the fly rarely work. That's what he did with the flyers. They have been stuck in mediocrity for how long now?

Yes if he is allowed to tear it down you absolutely look into moving those pieces. Will he be allowed is the question? Then does he want to? Maybe he now realizes he should have traded clode, jake, and other instead of wasting their prime years.

No Crosby wont be unless he want to be. You think he wants to go through a retool or rebuild? that guy is as competitive as one can get. He is a winner who wants to win.
- login

Retools are not constant. Situations are different every time. Flyers failed to retool because they needed to replace a #1 D in Chris Pronger and Holmgren in hindsight didnt make the right moves to rectify that. At the end of the day his failed attempt to replace Pronger put the team in a difficult position cap wise and prospect wise.

Towards the end of Holmgren's tenure he finally gave up and decided to rebuild the D rather than replace with Hextall at his side. He got his promotion, hexy continued to build from the draft and thats where we are today.

Hexy did a good job clearing our cap and stocking up the cupboards however he did not have the urgency to make this team a contender. He put too much faith in NoPa to be #2 C which I understand may have been because he went all in on Stastny and lost out.

Fletcher did a good job of grabbing Hayes. Guy has been fantastic. Not a flashy guy but he plays a good two way game, protects the puck well and for a slow guy seems to get a ton of breakaways lol. Loss of Niskanen hurts a lot. It came out of nowhere. Unfortunately guys like Niskanen dont grow on trees so we are kind of in the same boat as Pronger in terms of getting a replacement except Fletcher is more equipped to deal with it.

We all know he was after Brodie. Unfortunately he went to TOR. We have guys in house that can take that spot but they arent ready yet. Gus was a 1 year patchwork deal for a short season. It obviously hasnt worked as well as we would have liked but its a one year trial and Fletcher will have another shot in the offseason to find a #2 D if he doesnt do so at the deadline in April

Here is an excerpt from an article describing game 5 of the 1989 playoff series between the Flyers and Penguins:

"Mario the Magnificent exploded for three goals in the opening minutes as the Pittsburgh Penguins edged the Philadelphia Flyers 10-7.

The Magnificent One, who injured his neck in Game 4, showed no ill effects by turning Philadelphia goalie Ron Hextall, considered one of the best in the game, into Hextall the Horrible.

Lemieux became the first Penguin to score four goals in one game by accomplishing that feat in the first period."

Guess who will win all the arguments when they come up?

GM interviews include basically laying out exactly what your short and long-term plan would be if you're hired. Burkle and Mario would already be on board with whatever big decisions/direction that Hexy feels would be necessary if they offered him the job.
- Tomahawk

Were Holmgren and Scott on board when they hired Hextall?

They couldn't even beat that Habs last playoff. I expect JR wanted to keep on trading picks/prospects for one more run and ownership wanted a re tool at least. Crosby is also smart enough to realize that status quo doesn't work and would prob support change like this.. Don't discount the fact that he has 3 cups and his legacy is largely cemented.
- Hextall271

I cant see him supporting that in any way; behind the scenes.. He wants #4 , then #5

Were Holmgren and Scott on board when they hired Hextall?
- MJL

Good point, sometimes promotions are used as a kinder way or moving someone out the way!

Hexy did a good job clearing our cap and stocking up the cupboards however he did not have the urgency to make this team a contender. He put too much faith in NoPa to be #2 C which I understand may have been because he went all in on Stastny and lost out.



We all know he was after Brodie. Unfortunately he went to TOR. We have guys in house that can take that spot but they arent ready yet. Gus was a 1 year patchwork deal for a short season. It obviously hasnt worked as well as we would have liked but its a one year trial and Fletcher will have another shot in the offseason to find a #2 D if he doesnt do so at the deadline in April
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

You can't just all of sudden have urgency to make the team a contender. If that's what they wanted then Holmgren should've just stayed on as GM. This team is really in the same spot in terms of becoming a contender that they were with Hextall. Waiting on the young players to develop. That has not changed. Yea, they're better but how much better?
Thank goodness the Flyers didn't get Brodie.

Hextall never got the chance to add the accoutrements here like he was able to help do in LA (and they were quite successful in that, might I add).

He was JUST getting there in Philly, and right before he could finish the final veteran scoring pieces, the rug got pulled.

Even if he doesn’t get the ability to finish the job again in Pittsburgh, I can guarantee you they’ll no longer have a bottom feeder for a farm system.

At the very least, this could mean the last run for Crosby until he’s ready to hang em up. Hextall will be slicing and dicing that team in no time looking for every way possible to get picks.

Were Holmgren and Scott on board when they hired Hextall?
- MJL

At the time of hire, yeah. I'm sure he made it clear that core guys like Kimmo, Streit, Hartsy and Coburn wouldn't be part of picture moving forward. And that Vinny was gone too.

Feelings changed about the long-term plan after 4-years.

Wow the lens also hired Brian Burke president of hockey operations

Wow the lens also hired Brian Burke president of hockey operations
- bigdaddywaite

Burke, Hexy... that's a lot of truculence.

Wow the lens also hired Brian Burke president of hockey operations
- bigdaddywaite

interesting as Burke has an antiquated way of thinking. He also likes shall we say certain types of players who Ronald showed no interest in really.

Burke, Hexy... that's a lot of truculence.
- Tomahawk

lol

At the time of hire, yeah. I'm sure he made it clear that core guys like Kimmo, Streit, Hartsy and Coburn wouldn't be part of picture moving forward. And that Vinny was gone too.

Feelings changed about the long-term plan after 4-years.
- Tomahawk

So you don't think that Hextall made it clear that just clearing the cap and rebuilding the prospect base would take 3 years? If Holmgren and Co. weren't aware of that, they were misguided.

Burke, Hexy... that's a lot of truculence.
- Tomahawk

I see that a as a big issue. I wouldn't be comfortable with that if I was Hextall. Who is really the GM?

Burke, Hexy... that's a lot of truculence.
- Tomahawk

It sounds to me like ownership had some concerns about Hextall based on his time with the Flyers and thus wanted someone there to keep the pressure on. That's what I read into it anyway.

It sounds to me like ownership had some concerns about Hextall based on his time with the Flyers and thus wanted someone there to keep the pressure on. That's what I read into it anyway.
- jd250

If they had concerns that led them to have to hire someone else due to them, they wouldn't have hired Hextall.

It sucks about the Flyers game getting cancelled. I was looking forward to watching them tonight. Damn Covid.

Happy for Hextall though. Glad he got another chance.

So you don't think that Hextall made it clear that just clearing the cap and rebuilding the prospect base would take 3 years? If Holmgren and Co. weren't aware of that, they were misguided.
- MJL

The divergence in opinion seemed have stemmed from what to do w/ all that newly cleared cap space and how quickly to bring certain kids in (Carter Hart). And the coaching thing.

It seems everybody was happy with the way things had unfolded prior to that.

Here is an excerpt from an article describing game 5 of the 1989 playoff series between the Flyers and Penguins:

"Mario the Magnificent exploded for three goals in the opening minutes as the Pittsburgh Penguins edged the Philadelphia Flyers 10-7.

The Magnificent One, who injured his neck in Game 4, showed no ill effects by turning Philadelphia goalie Ron Hextall, considered one of the best in the game, into Hextall the Horrible.

Lemieux became the first Penguin to score four goals in one game by accomplishing that feat in the first period."

Guess who will win all the arguments when they come up?
- jd250

Yup... who won that series? The Flyers.

interesting as Burke has an antiquated way of thinking. He also likes shall we say certain types of players who Ronald showed no interest in really.
- login

Hextall did a lot of good things in Philly as a GM. Obviously I think there were mistakes and in the the end maybe he became a little to stubborn in his approach. But Hextall is a smart guy. Smart guys LEARN from their mistakes and grow. I think he will. Hextall is a good hockey exec and Burke is a smart guy as well. The Pens are in good hands. Smart hires.

Yup... who won that series? The Flyers.
- bmeltzer

come on man 5-2. They will likely win another before the flyers.

Hextall did a lot of good things in Philly as a GM. Obviously I think there were mistakes and in the the end maybe he became a little to stubborn in his approach. But Hextall is a smart guy. Smart guys LEARN from their mistakes and grow. I think he will. Hextall is a good hockey exec and Burke is a smart guy as well. The Pens are in good hands. Smart hires.
- landros 2

He was an average GM at the end of the day. What has Burke ever really done?

Malkin to Philly for Giroux.