I remember times when we complained that all we do is score on the PP and can't do poop 5v5.

If the PP was clicking this team would be very dangerous in spite of their poop habits.
- Rinosaur

I think at best this team might win a round in the playoffs (depending on the matchup). A couple of moves and we might be competitive in round 2, tops. Bottom line, this is just not a Cup team anymore and likely can't be this year or next (cap is even worse next year after Marino's raise and Blue needing a raise with no money coming off).

As such, I think a wise GM would blow it up and start over. I would ask Crosby if he wants to stick around for that and everyone else (besides a very young core) I would sell to the highest bidder.

The players I keep:
Kap
McCann
Blue
Marino
POJ

The players I think are untradeable and therefore will have to keep:
Tanev (maybe, maybe not)
Matheson

I think jr did a lot of good on offence but I think however his team came to evaluate defensive players, he has struggled mightily.

I think jr and sully are the 2 biggest problems on the team. 1 is gone and hopefully the 2nd show drops.

We’ll never know I guess if one protected the other or what relationship they had but it is 110% time to move on and get a gm/coach tandem that are on the same page. Whether Reaves was a good trade or not sully completely screwed that one.
- 10inchTerror

Agree with all of that, especially having GM and coach on same page.

Dude is just confused on what asset management is. He thinks we're saying JR didn't make any good moves that helped the Pens, so I really didn't feel like explaining to him how despite good moves being made, bad moves can still have long-term repercussions.

Did you order the knives?
- Rinosaur

Haven’t ordered anything yet. Got a million things to buy at the moment.

When ZAR is on the 3rd line people will notice.
- Tojo.

Ask and you shall receive:

Pens Inside Scoop
@PensInsideScoop · 7h
Here is the Pens' workflow:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
Aston-Reese-Blueger-Tanev
Lafferty-Jankowski-Sceviour/O’Connor

The defensemen rotated.

Such an overblown narrative

Who were all these assets, these great young players and picks we traded that turned into stars elsewhere?

The late 1st that we traded for Reaves that turned into KHL bound bust Klim Kostin?

Reaves, bust goalie Gustaffson and a late 1st that turned into Brassard (A trade everyone loved at the time), who then turned into McCann?

Burned out Phil Kessel traded for POJ?

Struggling Hags, who was traded for Pearson, who didn't work out, who was then flipped for Gudbransson, who was then removed for nothing?

Be sure to look past Bust Sprong for Pettersson

A 3rd for Payday Marino

Burnt toast Murray for a 2nd

Stop pretending we had all these valuable assets and gave them away for no return. By the time we moved on, they were done. We were lucky to get what we did at the time
- TheGame316

No dude. It was Jim Rutherford and the good old boy Canadian crowds fault.

Ask and you shall receive:

Pens Inside Scoop
@PensInsideScoop · 7h
Here is the Pens' workflow:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
Aston-Reese-Blueger-Tanev
Lafferty-Jankowski-Sceviour/O’Connor

The defensemen rotated.
- Thunderbolt

We'll that Third line looks like it will take an offensive hit.

Jesse Marshall was on Madden today...

Said Pens fans were sold a bill of goods from Leafs and Sens fans on Ceci. Been pretty good for bottom pairing guy.

Said, Letang is sucking. We certainly all know this.

Said, Tending is really sucking and DeSmith should be starting. Said we should be shopping for a vet. Starkey said he's been told we ARE shopping for a vet.

All pretty obvious stuff. Especially the Matheson trade as being really, really bad. Probably the worst contract in the league at the moment.

Jesse Marshall was on Madden today...

Said Pens fans were sold a bill of goods from Leafs and Sens fans on Ceci. Been pretty good for bottom pairing guy.

Said, Letang is sucking. We certainly all know this.

Said, Tending is really sucking and DeSmith should be starting. Said we should be shopping for a vet. Starkey said he's been told we ARE shopping for a vet.

All pretty obvious stuff. Especially the Matheson trade as being really, really bad. Probably the worst contract in the league at the moment.
- madmike71

Well maybe he pulled an Erod and faked an injury to hep the team. Hopefully petts back soon as he is skating with the taxi squad.

Jesse Marshall was on Madden today...

Said Pens fans were sold a bill of goods from Leafs and Sens fans on Ceci. Been pretty good for bottom pairing guy.

Said, Letang is sucking. We certainly all know this.

Said, Tending is really sucking and DeSmith should be starting. Said we should be shopping for a vet. Starkey said he's been told we ARE shopping for a vet.

All pretty obvious stuff. Especially the Matheson trade as being really, really bad. Probably the worst contract in the league at the moment.
- madmike71

I wonder which Vet they are shopping for? (frank) I wish we could move Matheson.

I wonder which Vet they are shopping for? (frank) I wish we could move Matheson.
- 668710

They need to buy him out. It won't happen, but they need to. Nobody is taking that contract even if they retained 50%.

If they are shopping for a goalie I'd be looking at Kuemper. I don't know what his cost will be though.

We'll that Third line looks like it will take an offensive hit.
- 668710

ZAR is definitely a step down from McCann. Unfortunately I don't see anyone better.

They need to buy him out. It won't happen, but they need to. Nobody is taking that contract even if they retained 50%.

If they are shopping for a goalie I'd be looking at Kuemper. I don't know what his cost will be though.
- Rinosaur

Yea I know a trade won't happen/would cost us to move him. And I like Kuemper.

Matthews with 11 goals in 12 games.

Murray with 3 good games in a row.

4-0 so far in fantasy pool this season!!! Tough start as I’m down 96-60 after tonight though.
Big comeback for Bros Before Ahos coming up!

Jesse Marshall was on Madden today...

Said Pens fans were sold a bill of goods from Leafs and Sens fans on Ceci. Been pretty good for bottom pairing guy.

Said, Letang is sucking. We certainly all know this.

Said, Tending is really sucking and DeSmith should be starting. Said we should be shopping for a vet. Starkey said he's been told we ARE shopping for a vet.

All pretty obvious stuff. Especially the Matheson trade as being really, really bad. Probably the worst contract in the league at the moment.
- madmike71

Yeah Ceci seems like he might be passable in the bottom pair.

Should have been shopping for a vet goalie in the off-season.

Yep. Honestly though, if the PP was clicking and the PK was even average we’d probably be talking a bit different on the board.
- j.boyd919

They'd be a little higher in the standings, or at least a little gap for 4th. I'd say the same for goaltending. On the flip side where would they be if they weren't good in OT and shootout?

Division looks like 3 good teams and 5 mediocre ones so far, so there are points to be had when these teams play each other.

For me, the main two factors on if this team could still compete were goal-tending and the stars not starting to slow due to age. Depth pieces can be fixed. Neither of those looking great will sink them if they don't improve.

Torts already benched Laine tonight.

https://www.tsn.ca/columb...lina-hurricanes-1.1590129

Does anyone here think Sully would have the guts to bench Geno or Letang when they play like crap? They do and he hasn’t. I hate Torts and his antics, but I respect him for stuff like this, too.

If the league was structured the way it normally would be with the metro and top 3 plus 2 wild cards, i'd feel fine about the Penguins. However, with COVID and these divisions, I'd put our odds of winning that 4th spot at 50/50. I think both the Rangers/Islanders are capable of winning it too. The key is we cant be giving away points in OT.

Onto the question of the rebuild, I see very little chance they trade Malkin. Letang I think is a coin toss, but even still, I dont see it. So assuming a few things, I see the core remaining:

Forwards
Jake
Sid
Geno
Poulin (ideally)
Kapanen
Blueger
Maybe McCann

Defense
Letang
POJ
Marino
Matheson (one of the worst trades in recent memory. Whether you like it or not, he's stuck here)

Goalies
Jarry or DeSmith

The problem is we dont have a pipeline of guys coming in other than Poulin. You need a few rookie contracts to help. Hopefully get lucky and a guy like Legare can be in a top 9 role eventually.

But this actually leaves you with some decent money available. The top priorities should be: 1) Adding top 6 winger to help offset the declines in Crosby/Malkin's game. 2) Add top 4 defenseman. Doesnt have to be a flashy name, but a guy solid enough to eat big minutes when needed.

I realize when your two biggest targets in the offseason are two impactful players... but crazier things have happened.

In a perfect world, Nathan MacKinnon's contract expires in the next few years and Sid convinces him to come to Pittsburgh to finish out Sid's career and then take over. I think it is a more reasonable chance than we think, but still a long shot.

We will learn a lot about the next 5 years when the Penguins hire a GM. That will answer some key questions.

Based on the list of 8 names I saw, I dont hate any of them. No one really sticks out as the clear cut favorite.

https://www.tsn.ca/columbus-blue-jackets-patrik-laine-sits-for-third-period-against-carolina-hurricanes-1.1590129

Does anyone here think Sully would have the guts to bench Geno or Letang when they play like crap? They do and he hasn’t. I hate Torts and his antics, but I respect him for stuff like this, too.
- chimpira

I think Sully wouldnt do it because he knows Letang and Malkin arent going to respond to that. Letang and Malkin arent in their primes or young kids anymore. The time to instill that level of accountability and responsibility was a decade ago with Bylsma.

By the time Sully got here, that shipped had sailed. It's pretty common knowledge neither player is going to do what the coaches ask 100% of the time and that has largely been the case their whole careers. When Bylsma let them get away with it over and over again, no coach was going to stop it.

And Im not hating on either player, just recognizing the types of players they are and the pros/cons that come with it.

If the league was structured the way it normally would be with the metro and top 3 plus 2 wild cards, i'd feel fine about the Penguins. However, with COVID and these divisions, I'd put our odds of winning that 4th spot at 50/50. I think both the Rangers/Islanders are capable of winning it too. The key is we cant be giving away points in OT.

Onto the question of the rebuild, I see very little chance they trade Malkin. Letang I think is a coin toss, but even still, I dont see it. So assuming a few things, I see the core remaining:

Forwards
Jake
Sid
Geno
Poulin (ideally)
Kapanen
Blueger
Maybe McCann

Defense
Letang
POJ
Marino
Matheson (one of the worst trades in recent memory. Whether you like it or not, he's stuck here)

Goalies
Jarry or DeSmith

The problem is we dont have a pipeline of guys coming in other than Poulin. You need a few rookie contracts to help. Hopefully get lucky and a guy like Legare can be in a top 9 role eventually.

But this actually leaves you with some decent money available. The top priorities should be: 1) Adding top 6 winger to help offset the declines in Crosby/Malkin's game. 2) Add top 4 defenseman. Doesnt have to be a flashy name, but a guy solid enough to eat big minutes when needed.

I realize when your two biggest targets in the offseason are two impactful players... but crazier things have happened.

In a perfect world, Nathan MacKinnon's contract expires in the next few years and Sid convinces him to come to Pittsburgh to finish out Sid's career and then take over. I think it is a more reasonable chance than we think, but still a long shot.

We will learn a lot about the next 5 years when the Penguins hire a GM. That will answer some key questions.

Based on the list of 8 names I saw, I dont hate any of them. No one really sticks out as the clear cut favorite.
- SuperHenderson13

So you're talking about a mini-rebuild with the goal of being competitive again. The problem is, you have to replace guys like Rust and Dumo with more expensive players because, as you say, we have no one in the pipeline. This is why I think a full rebuild is in order and the best option. This team just doesn't have it. One or two guys isn't going to do squat.

If they don't trade Malkin and Letang in a rebuild, then they are putting sentimentality over winning. We need to stockpile as many draft picks as possible when the time comes (which I think is NOW) and those two are declining rapidly.

Elliote Friedman saying Hextall just had his second interview with the Penguins.

So you're talking about a mini-rebuild with the goal of being competitive again. The problem is, you have to replace guys like Rust and Dumo with more expensive players because, as you say, we have no one in the pipeline. This is why I think a full rebuild is in order and the best option. This team just doesn't have it. One or two guys isn't going to do squat.

If they don't trade Malkin and Letang in a rebuild, then they are putting sentimentality over winning. We need to stockpile as many draft picks as possible when the time comes (which I think is NOW) and those two are declining rapidly.
- Hockey66

I am fine with a rebuild, but first you need to know some variables:
1) Would Malkin/Letang accept a trade and what would the return be?
2) What is Crosby's plan? Is he on board with a rebuild with the hope to be competitive in his final years? Would he want out to Colorado? What would his return be?
3) Who would survive the rebuild versus what other pieces would go?

If Letang/Malkin/Crosby dont want to go anywhere, I think the rebuild plan is dead on arrival because you arent going to get significant assets in a trade plus those guys would likely keep you competitive enough where you get a 12-15 pick instead of a top 5 (unless you're CHI/NYR and get lucky with the lottery).

So I would prefer a retool because a lot of rebuilds look like they can be done in 2-4 years but they end up taking 5+ years. I think the Penguins have some interesting young pieces like Kapanen, Marino, Jake, and POJ. If we can create the cap room, I think we can retool with those + Crosby and possibly come back for a final push.

A rebuild is inevitable, I just think you owe it to yourself to suck every last minute of good hockey out of Crosby.

I am fine with a rebuild, but first you need to know some variables:
1) Would Malkin/Letang accept a trade and what would the return be?
2) What is Crosby's plan? Is he on board with a rebuild with the hope to be competitive in his final years? Would he want out to Colorado? What would his return be?
3) Who would survive the rebuild versus what other pieces would go?

If Letang/Malkin/Crosby dont want to go anywhere, I think the rebuild plan is dead on arrival because you arent going to get significant assets in a trade plus those guys would likely keep you competitive enough where you get a 12-15 pick instead of a top 5 (unless you're CHI/NYR and get lucky with the lottery).

So I would prefer a retool because a lot of rebuilds look like they can be done in 2-4 years but they end up taking 5+ years. I think the Penguins have some interesting young pieces like Kapanen, Marino, Jake, and POJ. If we can create the cap room, I think we can retool with those + Crosby and possibly come back for a final push.

A rebuild is inevitable, I just think you owe it to yourself to suck every last minute of good hockey out of Crosby.
- SuperHenderson13

1. Malkin doesn't have a NTC and Letang only has a M-NTC. I don't care too much about the return really.

2. I think they should ask Crosby and accommodate him. Whether he wants to be competitive here and whether he can be competitive here are two different things. With our few draft picks and depleted system, I don't think the latter is possible. I'm not hung up on what his return would be, either. You just get what you can get. Highest bidder wins and accept it.

3. I mentioned the few players above I would keep around for the rebuild.

As much as I like the idea of a competitive retool vs a rebuild, I just don't see it.

Elliote Friedman saying Hextall just had his second interview with the Penguins.
- SuperHenderson13

This is good news as far as I'm concerned. Hopefully he has an eye toward a rebuild with no allegiances. Apparently that's his strong suit.