I'd personally still stay the course this year so long as they stay in the playoff race. I wouldn't go for a costly rental though.

The problem I see is in all those trades you most likely get worse in the short-term and hope it works out long-term. Rebuilding in free agency doesn't work, you should only use it to patch some final holes, and with all those guys gone this ship is swiss cheese.

If they go full rebuild, and we set aside loyalty to Malkin and Letang which at least for Malkin I don't and more importantly Lemieux won't, everyone on the roster besides Crosby, Marino, and POJ is fair game. Some guys like Pettersson, McCann, Blueger may be able to stick around for a bit, but even some younger guys like Kapanen and Guentzel might be worth looking at the return. I mean if you're going to blow it up, go big.

But that's me. I don't think you can turn this around in 2-3 years. Need too many pieces including a #1 center, a top 4 RHD, a PP QB (yes could get both with one), 1 or 2 top 6 wings, most of your bottom 6, and a starting goalie. Some of those are pretty hard to get without drafting them.
- Tojo.

I agree with this. We have what we have at this point this season.

I agree with blowing it up big and that it will take a few years. I think Kap, Guentzel, POJ, Riikola, Marino, Crosby, Poulin, Legare, Jarry, and Bluegar all stay. I think most agree Zucker and others can be traded.

A RHD/PP QB is a high priority. Dougie Hamilton is a free agent. David Savard is also a free agent. So is Jamie Oleksiak who is more of a 2nd pairing option.

I agree with your previous statement of Malkin retiring a Pen. I would love to see it myself.

If they revamped the defense and saved a bunch of money and traded Zucker. I think they should make a run at Taylor Hall and pair him with Malkin.

I'd kill for the success you have had for the last ten years.

I'd kill for the success you have had for the last ten years.
- Tedge77

I know it seems lame for us to complain, but it’s frustrating to know poor asset management prevented the Pens from winning more, not player decline.

I know it seems lame for us to complain, but it’s frustrating to know poor asset management prevented the Pens from winning more, not player decline.
- Rinosaur

Such an overblown narrative

Who were all these assets, these great young players and picks we traded that turned into stars elsewhere?

The late 1st that we traded for Reaves that turned into KHL bound bust Klim Kostin?

Reaves, bust goalie Gustaffson and a late 1st that turned into Brassard (A trade everyone loved at the time), who then turned into McCann?

Burned out Phil Kessel traded for POJ?

Struggling Hags, who was traded for Pearson, who didn't work out, who was then flipped for Gudbransson, who was then removed for nothing?

Be sure to look past Bust Sprong for Pettersson

A 3rd for Payday Marino

Burnt toast Murray for a 2nd

Stop pretending we had all these valuable assets and gave them away for no return. By the time we moved on, they were done. We were lucky to get what we did at the time

Such an overblown narrative

Who were all these assets, these great young players and picks we traded that turned into stars elsewhere?

The late 1st that we traded for Reaves that turned into KHL bound bust Klim Kostin?

Reaves, bust goalie Gustaffson and a late 1st that turned into Brassard (A trade everyone loved at the time), who then turned into McCann?

Burned out Phil Kessel traded for POJ?

Struggling Hags, who was traded for Pearson, who didn't work out, who was then flipped for Gudbransson, who was then removed for nothing?

Be sure to look past Bust Sprong for Pettersson

A 3rd for Payday Marino

Burnt toast Murray for a 2nd

Stop pretending we had all these valuable assets and gave them away for no return. By the time we moved on, they were done. We were lucky to get what we did at the time
- TheGame316

It's hard to explain the narrative to someone who doesn't understand much.

It's hard to explain the narrative to someone who doesn't understand much.
- Rinosaur

Seriously, who are all these great assets we "poorly managed"?

Do not ignore 20+ years of Free Agents NOT coming to play for Pittsburgh. No saying "We could have just signed this guy, or that guy"

Thought of another one, Recently bought out Maatta for League minimum Kahun, who was traded for League minimum Sheary?

Seriously, who are all these great assets we "poorly managed"?

Do not ignore 20+ years of Free Agents NOT coming to play for Pittsburgh. No saying "We could have just signed this guy, or that guy"

Thought of another one, Recently bought out Maatta for League minimum Kahun, who was traded for League minimum Sheary?
- TheGame316

Again, I didn't say great assets. You truly don't get the concept of asset management. Also, I've beaten this dead horse far too much and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. You should have paid attention.

This has more to do with moves he shouldn't have made.

Again, I didn't say great assets. You truly don't get the concept of asset management. Also, I've beaten this dead horse far too much and I'm not going to keep repeating myself. You should have paid attention.

This has more to do with moves he shouldn't have made.
- Rinosaur

The only leg you would have to stand on was to argue, as I do that we should have blown it up after the repeat. Every player on the roster was trading at a 52 week high

Since then, its been moving declining assets in lateral moves going all in every year and chasing

For every bad move that was made there was also a good one

You can't just cherry pick the bad ones and play monday morning quarterback

1) Sid and Geno arent pulling their weight. Whether it is bad luck, father time, or something else, they arent producing at levels needed for this team to win

2) roster construction... Im tired of the excuses...Sid and Geno arent scoring and the goaltending stinks, so you cant criticize XGMJR. JR torched the roster after Cup #2, and it didnt work. The bottom 6 is awful, and his worst move might be acquiring Kapanen, because when we miss the playoffs, our lottery pick now goes to Minnesota.

3) goaltending. No explanation is needed. This would be obvious to stevie wonder and helen keller.

4) Coaching. I dont know if Sully's shelf life has expired...It may very well have.
But with 87 and 71 unable to play the way they did 4-5 years ago, it is time to become (gulp) a trapping team. Counter attacking would still allow 87 and 71 to make the best use of the skills they have left and help prop up shoddy defense and goaltending.

The only leg you would have to stand on was to argue, as I do that we should have blown it up after the repeat. Every player on the roster was trading at a 52 week high

Since then, its been moving declining assets in lateral moves going all in every year and chasing

For every bad move that was made there was also a good one

You can't just cherry pick the bad ones and play monday morning quarterback
- TheGame316

It's not cherry picking and I never said there weren't good moves. I've praised the Sprong/Pettersson deal plenty. I've said the Brassard deal was a good deal that didn't pan out. I thought and still think the Bjugstad trade was a good deal.

I also didn't play monday morning quarter back. I, along with many others, vocally stated how much I hated the JJ deal and it's effects on the lineup. I, along with many others, immediately said how bad the Matheson deal was. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking. We said the very reasons why it wouldn't work out and it's proving to be true.

So, try again.

Such an overblown narrative

Who were all these assets, these great young players and picks we traded that turned into stars elsewhere?

The late 1st that we traded for Reaves that turned into KHL bound bust Klim Kostin?

Reaves, bust goalie Gustaffson and a late 1st that turned into Brassard (A trade everyone loved at the time), who then turned into McCann?

Burned out Phil Kessel traded for POJ?

Struggling Hags, who was traded for Pearson, who didn't work out, who was then flipped for Gudbransson, who was then removed for nothing?

Be sure to look past Bust Sprong for Pettersson

A 3rd for Payday Marino

Burnt toast Murray for a 2nd

Stop pretending we had all these valuable assets and gave them away for no return. By the time we moved on, they were done. We were lucky to get what we did at the time
- TheGame316

‘Twas a 6th you sassy son of a gun

It's not cherry picking and I never said there weren't good moves. I've praised the Sprong/Pettersson deal plenty. I've said the Brassard deal was a good deal that didn't pan out. I thought and still think the Bjugstad trade was a good deal.

I also didn't play monday morning quarter back. I, along with many others, vocally stated how much I hated the JJ deal and it's effects on the lineup. I, along with many others, immediately said how bad the Matheson deal was. That's not Monday morning quarterbacking. We said the very reasons why it wouldn't work out and it's proving to be true.

So, try again.
- Rinosaur

3 Million bucks out of an 80 million cap and JJ playing on the 3rd pairing was not the undoing of the entire team taking us from perennial Stanley cup contender to where we are today

I know it seems lame for us to complain, but it’s frustrating to know poor asset management prevented the Pens from winning more, not player decline.
- Rinosaur

I can appreciate that. But you have enjoyed great success be thankful. Take it from me!!!

I agree with this. We have what we have at this point this season.

I agree with blowing it up big and that it will take a few years. I think Kap, Guentzel, POJ, Riikola, Marino, Crosby, Poulin, Legare, Jarry, and Bluegar all stay. I think most agree Zucker and others can be traded.

A RHD/PP QB is a high priority. Dougie Hamilton is a free agent. David Savard is also a free agent. So is Jamie Oleksiak who is more of a 2nd pairing option.

I agree with your previous statement of Malkin retiring a Pen. I would love to see it myself.

If they revamped the defense and saved a bunch of money and traded Zucker. I think they should make a run at Taylor Hall and pair him with Malkin.
- 123Kid

Hamilton fills a monster hole if you can get him for a retool. Of course every team will want him and he's in an ideal situation now that if I was him I'd stick with. Hard to plan for that but it would change the outlook.

I'd kill for the success you have had for the last ten years.
- Tedge77

No complaints here really. It's always frustrating to see the end wondering if you'll ever get there again, but it's been a great ride.

Such an overblown narrative

Who were all these assets, these great young players and picks we traded that turned into stars elsewhere?

The late 1st that we traded for Reaves that turned into KHL bound bust Klim Kostin?

Reaves, bust goalie Gustaffson and a late 1st that turned into Brassard (A trade everyone loved at the time), who then turned into McCann?

Burned out Phil Kessel traded for POJ?

Struggling Hags, who was traded for Pearson, who didn't work out, who was then flipped for Gudbransson, who was then removed for nothing?

Be sure to look past Bust Sprong for Pettersson

A 3rd for Payday Marino

Burnt toast Murray for a 2nd

Stop pretending we had all these valuable assets and gave them away for no return. By the time we moved on, they were done. We were lucky to get what we did at the time
- TheGame316

I think you make some good points here. You're also missing some moves so this is hardly a complete list. Sundqvist could help the bottom 6 and was good enough to play 13-14 minutes on a Stanley Cup champ. You never know with all the draft picks traded who we get and how they work out. But that late 1st from the Brassard was used for K'Andre Miller who would look very good on an entry level deal.

Some of this is hindsight. I too liked the Brassard deal except for losing Cole at the time. Not really feeling like breaking down every move right now. So I'll just leave it at you have some good points, but there are other moves you didn't mention there

I think you make some good points here. You're also missing some moves so this is hardly a complete list. Sundqvist could help the bottom 6 and was good enough to play 13-14 minutes on a Stanley Cup champ. You never know with all the draft picks traded who we get and how they work out. But that late 1st from the Brassard was used for K'Andre Miller who would look very good on an entry level deal.

Some of this is hindsight. I too liked the Brassard deal except for losing Cole at the time. Not really feeling like breaking down every move right now. So I'll just leave it at you have some good points, but there are other moves you didn't mention there
- Tojo.

To be fair, Cole moving was a Sully issue and Sundvqvist, while being an OK player, I certainly want no part of 2.75 Million per year. The organization thought more highly of Blueger (and I believe correctly so) so Sundqvist was deemed expendable

Reaves has also proven good enough to play 4th line minutes on a Stanley Cup finalist and top team in the west. I still think there could be a role for him on this team today, but I digress. These GM/Coaching philosophy issues are different than asset management and roster construction. It was dysfunctional, and I'm not sure who to blame

Jake Sid Horn (Kapanen)
Kessel (Zucker) Malkin Rust
Hagelin (Tanev) Bonino (McCann) Sheary (Jankowski)
Kuhnhackl (Rodriguez) Cullen (Blueger) Kunitz (ZAR)

Letang Dumo
Schultz (Marino) Maatta (Pettersson)
Hainsey (POJ) Cole (Matheson)

Murray (Jarry)
MAF (DeSmith)

So, in terms of "Asset Management" Here is our Cup winner from 2017 to the team today. Lines aren't perfect, but they are about as similar as I can remember. I'll even give credit to Letang being on the roster in 2017 even though he didn't actually play

Horn-Kapanen - We are younger, cheaper and faster
Kessel-Zucker - Better 2 way play, less offense, however Kessel is cooked
Hags-Tanev - Wash, similar players, Tanev actually costs less than Hags did then
Bones-McCann - I like Bones but he was slow, McCann has more talent and is less $$
Sheary-Jank - Could have had Sheary for the same $$. Glad we moved on
Kuhn-eRod - Wash, both 4th liners making league minimum
Cullen-Blueger - Dad was great here, but he did age out. Blueger is solid bottom 6
Kunitz-Zar - Kunitz was done at that point and a 4th liner. So is ZAR today

Defense I will assess as a group

Schultz
Cole
Hainsey
Maatta

vs

Marino
Pettersson
Matheson
POJ

We could throw Ceci and Daley in there too, but I take todays group over the 2017 group

MAF/Murray vs Jarry/DeSmith

MAF is the undoubted best of the bunch. In hindsight, moving on from him might have been the biggest mistake of all

To be fair, Cole moving was a Sully issue and Sundvqvist, while being an OK player, I certainly want no part of 2.75 Million per year. The organization thought more highly of Blueger (and I believe correctly so) so Sundqvist was deemed expendable

Reaves has also proven good enough to play 4th line minutes on a Stanley Cup finalist and top team in the west. I still think there could be a role for him on this team today, but I digress. These GM/Coaching philosophy issues are different than asset management and roster construction. It was dysfunctional, and I'm not sure who to blame
- TheGame316

True on Cole. Mentioned him because that was the part I didn't like when it happened even though I wanted Brassard.

Sundqvist they would have had on his ECL. I'm not sure Blueger was valued higher at that point, I think it was more likely the Blues wanted Sundqvist. Blueger really stalled as a prospect around then.

I'll agree Reeves could have bern used better. Part of that was the bottom 6 was shot at that point so he wasn't playing with anyone. I know you did a then and now post, but the better comparison for what they could have done right after their 2017 Cup would be the Pens bottom 6 to start 2017-2018. They wasted a couple years trying to rebuild that. It's better now then it was that year when they exchanged Bonino, Cullen, and Kunitz for McKegg, Rowney, and Reaves.

Yes, Cullen and Kunitz aged out, but they gave more that year then what replaced them, and Bonino was much better than McKegg. Hainsey for Hunwick was a bad trade off too.

True on Cole. Mentioned him because that was the part I didn't like when it happened even though I wanted Brassard.

Sundqvist they would have had on his ECL. I'm not sure Blueger was valued higher at that point, I think it was more likely the Blues wanted Sundqvist. Blueger really stalled as a prospect around then.

I'll agree Reeves could have bern used better. Part of that was the bottom 6 was shot at that point so he wasn't playing with anyone. I know you did a then and now post, but the better comparison for what they could have done right after their 2017 Cup would be the Pens bottom 6 to start 2017-2018. They wasted a couple years trying to rebuild that. It's better now then it was that year when they exchanged Bonino, Cullen, and Kunitz for McKegg, Rowney, and Reaves.

Yes, Cullen and Kunitz aged out, but they gave more that year then what replaced them, and Bonino was much better than McKegg. Hainsey for Hunwick was a bad trade off too.
- Tojo.

In the 2018 season, as I recall, we were pretty capped out (the need to Brassard to go thru Vegas with retention to make the trade work) and we basically couldn't afford to keep Bonino at 4 Million (I had hoped we would have offered 3 years 9 million prior to FA)

either way, the Rowney, McKegg, Sheahan experiment always read as GMJR wanting to fill the 3C hole mid season when the cap hit would be smaller

Hunwick looked good on paper, Hainsey was probably the better keep in hindsight, but didn't he also sign for more money?

I would have kept Kunitz for 1 year 1 million but he signed in Tampa for 2 million. Still too rich

Hamilton fills a monster hole if you can get him for a retool. Of course every team will want him and he's in an ideal situation now that if I was him I'd stick with. Hard to plan for that but it would change the outlook.
- Tojo.

He would be my number 1 target this offseason if I were the new GM.
I do agree it is hard to plan for signing some top free agents and making moves to afford them. It would be nice if we signed a GM who would do this though. It would definitely move the window a bit.

In the 2018 season, as I recall, we were pretty capped out (the need to Brassard to go thru Vegas with retention to make the trade work) and we basically couldn't afford to keep Bonino at 4 Million (I had hoped we would have offered 3 years 9 million prior to FA)

either way, the Rowney, McKegg, Sheahan experiment always read as GMJR wanting to fill the 3C hole mid season when the cap hit would be smaller

Hunwick looked good on paper, Hainsey was probably the better keep in hindsight, but didn't he also sign for more money?

I would have kept Kunitz for 1 year 1 million but he signed in Tampa for 2 million. Still too rich
- TheGame316

I agree some of these guys couldn't be kept under the cap. It's just when comparing rosters to the last Stanley Cup winner those are significant.

If I we could take today's team with 2017-2018 versions of Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Dumoulin, this team might really be a contender. Which is why I feel it was right to push in rather than rebuild at that point, it's hard to replace what we lost in age.

Honest view not hindsight, I thought they overpaid for Hunwick who had such a small sample of success. And not doing the Reaves trade you likely have Sundqvist helping the bottom 6 on an ELC and a 1st to move elsewhere or use. It was a big price for a move that looked bad at the time from the outside and on the inside Sully wasn't committed to which should have been figured out before the trade.

And that cap space I thought should have gone to a 3C. I was torn on if it should be Bonino (I was thinking 3.5M per) because it was a slight over pay but might have been worth it to take the fit you knew worked. Hindsight says keeping Bonino was probably the right call, me at the time felt they should have aimed higher then McKegg and hope for a 3C to trade for later.

Anyone see that blown offsides call on CBJ/CAR game?

Anyone see that blown offsides call on CBJ/CAR game?
- Blackstrom2

No, but I saw Laine being questioned about it afterwards. That bad?

Anyone see that blown offsides call on CBJ/CAR game?
- Blackstrom2

Why didn't they challenge it? Wasn't watching the game so have no idea.