Question for you and the board. Not a shot at any other posters here, in case anyone is extra sensitive today....

Can a player increase speed significantly after age 23? How about short area quickness?

My sense is that it is rare. But there's been huge advances in training and fitness, so maybe it is possible.
- mohel

Not a coach, but i bet it's possible....how much of an increase no idea....

but if Devonta Smith on Alabama can get even quicker, i would hope Strome could as well. Strap 45 lb plates behind him and let him skate with those......

Is Detroit rebuilding? Look at their roster. "Yzerman the Great" made plenty of veteran signings this year. Jon Merrill?, Bobby Ryan?, Sam Gagner? Why are they on a Detroit's roster?
- LAHawk

They have one of the oldest teams in the league, however they do have some talent coming. Yzerman is making sure that the young guys marinate in juniors or AHL, like we should have done with Boqvist.

Asking for a friend....but what is an additional 80 games going to show us that the 1st 170 haven't? Is Strome REALLY going to find it? I mean for a kid drafted 3rd overall to be on pace 0.50 points a game and be a top 6 player might be a nice on a team like this....but a team with cup aspirations? NO.

This isn't about him finding the mental side of the game.....I just don't see the physical tools necessary to be a consistent top 6 guy......does he have an above average shot? Does he routinely create scoring chances? Does he make those on his line better?

I really need to understand why so many are willing to hitch their wagon to this kid.....even as a bigger kid, he doesn't use his size to his advantage....he plays small.

I just don't see it.....again he's babysitting a hole but if the light dims in his head at all, Bowman needs to sell high and run away.
- SteveRain

Not to pick nits, but with the Blackhawks, Strome is a 0.76 PPG player. He does create a lot of scoring chances, and at least to start this year has generally played a better overall game. In my eyes, he is a great complimentary piece to a line.

If Toews and Dach (or even just one of them) were playing right now, I believe he would be viewed as a much better player. First off, he wouldn't be as much of a focal point on the other team, second, he wouldn't be judged through the eye of being the #1 center on the team.

Is he living up to his draft billing? No. Could he/does he need to use his size to his advantage? Yes. He's got some really good traits. They are just tethered to a body that doesn't necessarily let him optimize them.

I'll venture to suggest that Handzus before he blew out his knee and a young Brad Richards on Tampa were a lot quicker than Strom at 23.

Richards was also an elite play maker.

THe game is quicker now than it was 10+ years ago....if this was the late 90s or early 00s with the traps and 2 line pass bs, Strome would be fine....in a wide open league, he's exposed....badly
- SteveRain

To riff off a previous post by you....the trend in the league is to lock up guys you think are your future after the ELC (which is typically well before the all-important 250 game mark). Stan didn't do that. It appears the Hawks aren't convinced.

Not a coach, but i bet it's possible....how much of an increase no idea....

but if Devonta Smith on Alabama can get even quicker, i would hope Strome could as well. Strap 45 lb plates behind him and let him skate with those......
- SteveRain

Is Devonte Smith a defenseman or a forward, I didn’t know that Alabama had a hockey team.

Did we have a 2nd line center during our SC years? Wasn't that one of the main discussions on these boards throughout the Stanley Cup years?
- BetweenTheDots

it was but the team has superior offensive depth and a top 4 that could be a top 2 on 99% of the league.

Go back and look at those "3rd lines", and I recall McGuire during the 2010 run gushing over how that 3rd line would be a 2nd line on any other team.

No team will ever be perfect but you can have holes if you have advantages elsewhere to make up for it.

Pretty bad. Crawford hid a lot and luckily the Oilers blue line is meh and their goaltending was bad. Ultimately the score is the most important stat but it was fairly obvious they weren't getting through another round.

They won but that doesn't mean they weren't doing a lot of the same stupid crap they are now. Lots of high danger chances, defenders leaving the front of the net to chase (both at the same time), forwards looking confused, its messy. Unless you have a HOF goalie and can score close to 4 goals per game its going to be tough to sustain success.
- fattybeef

Fair enough. I just didn't see nearly as much of the "keystone cops" play in the bubble as we have now.

Is Devonte Smith a defenseman or a forward, I didn’t know that Alabama had a hockey team.
- Angotti

Sports science....don't be pigeon holed to just hockey.

Weight training, speed camps, power skating.....it's just a matter of time until some guru starts a trend in hockey. Has happened elsewhere

Sports science....don't be pigeon holed to just hockey.

Weight training, speed camps, power skating.....it's just a matter of time until some guru starts a trend in hockey. Has happened elsewhere
- SteveRain

That's been part of youth hockey for quite awhile now. Seems to have an impact, given all the speed in the league now. My question is whether that can continue with adults. Can 23-26 year old guys get faster and quicker? I'd guess that whatever benefit coaching and training provides will happen before getting to the show. Maybe there are guys who didn't go through the training who can benefit?

To riff off a previous post by you....the trend in the league is to lock up guys you think are your future after the ELC (which is typically well before the all-important 250 game mark). Stan didn't do that. It appears the Hawks aren't convinced.
- mohel

I agree and that was sorta my point....if the Hawks aren't locking him up LT and really probably caved in on his AAV once Dach AND Toews were out......tells us all we need to know.....prove it....again

That's been part of youth hockey for quite awhile now. Seems to have an impact, given all the speed in the league now. My question is whether that can continue with adults. Can 23-26 year old guys get faster and quicker? I'd guess that whatever benefit coaching and training provides will happen before getting to the show. Maybe there are guys who didn't go through the training who can benefit?
- mohel

I think so.....again, not sure how much quicker he can get but Im sure with added muscle and specialized training he could......id defer to somebody like 6628...he knows a lot about skating.

Is Devonte Smith a defenseman or a forward, I didn’t know that Alabama had a hockey team.
- Angotti

Learn something every day.


https://www.alabamahockeyclub.com/news

That's been part of youth hockey for quite awhile now. Seems to have an impact, given all the speed in the league now. My question is whether that can continue with adults. Can 23-26 year old guys get faster and quicker? I'd guess that whatever benefit coaching and training provides will happen before getting to the show. Maybe there are guys who didn't go through the training who can benefit?
- mohel

There is speed, then there are players with speed. anyone remember Jack Skille?

The issue is on quick transitions he's painfully slow entering the zone so you essentially dont have that support for at least 2-3 seconds and causes the puck carrier to fight off the opposition D until cement shoes can get in the zone.

He flashes some skill at times, and he should given where he was drafted.....but IMO, he's a 7-9 guy who chips in 10-15 as a depth guy and you better make sure you have an above average skill guy playing with him to get him going.

IMO...top 6 guys make those around them better.....i haven't seen that yet with strome, outside of his arrival for a very small sample size.

The other thing to keep in mind here is how long it took Bowman to sign this kid. If he were a long term answer he would have been prioritized and it makes me stop and think.....if toews and Dach are healthy is Strome on this team? I don't think he is.
- SteveRain

The bolded is true for most players not named Patrick Kane or Connor McDavid.

Maybe they decided that making long term deals has bit them in the ass too many times and a prudent short term deal would be a better idea.

Can't have enough skilled centers and teams need 40-50 point producers outside of the super stars.

Not to pick nits, but with the Blackhawks, Strome is a 0.76 PPG player. He does create a lot of scoring chances, and at least to start this year has generally played a better overall game. In my eyes, he is a great complimentary piece to a line.

If Toews and Dach (or even just one of them) were playing right now, I believe he would be viewed as a much better player. First off, he wouldn't be as much of a focal point on the other team, second, he wouldn't be judged through the eye of being the #1 center on the team.

Is he living up to his draft billing? No. Could he/does he need to use his size to his advantage? Yes. He's got some really good traits. They are just tethered to a body that doesn't necessarily let him optimize them.
- Chunk

I'll agree to disagree.

We have seen the makeups of championship teams.....Do I think Strome could have played top 6 minutes from 2008-09 to 2015-16 for this franchise? No, no I dont.

To me his ceiling is a winger who slots in 7-9 on a cup contender and a top 6 player on a non contender. Exactly where he is now. He's not a center, not unless he can find more quickness and burst as watching him lag behind vs Edmonton or Vegas in teh summer when the speed ramped even faster.....was alarming to me.

Does he have skill? Sure. He wouldn't have been drafted where he was, but he reminds of the kid who peaked way early.....refuses to put in work, and is just lasting off of god given talent. I have no proof of that, outside of his maddening inconsistent play and any team who jumps from a 3rd overall pick after only 28 games in an organization must have been scared off by something that they deemed was not fixable.

The bolded is true for most players not named Patrick Kane or Connor McDavid.

Maybe they decided that making long term deals has bit them in the ass too many times and a prudent short term deal would be a better idea.

Can't have enough skilled centers and teams need 40-50 point producers outside of the super stars.
- fattybeef

or he isn't viewed as a long term fixture and a stop gap that is replaceable when his agent wants more than he's worth? SOmething that got Saad traded twice.....

Strome at where he is now with the current level is pushing for what he brings back...IMO

I can see why Bowman took a run at him.....big body, good skill, and had a previous run with DeBrincat.....makes sense on paper.

Question for you and the board. Not a shot at any other posters here, in case anyone is extra sensitive today....

Can a player increase speed significantly after age 23? How about short area quickness?

My sense is that it is rare. But there's been huge advances in training and fitness, so maybe it is possible.
- mohel

The answer is yes.....and no.

You can always be taught better technique, this is not age dependent. Most teams in the league have power skating coaches and players have individual coaches to help them with stride and technique.

That being said there are a few things that will work against you. At a certain point no matter how good your technique is, you will be limited by your body and muscle type. All the training and technique in the world isn't gonna turn anybody into McDavid. In addition, when push comes to shove you are gonna revert to what has been deeply ingrained and that is the poor technique/bad habits.

So, yes you can learn better technique and become faster regardless of age, those increases in speed are still going to be capped at whatever your physical limitations are (regardless of training and workout regime), and most people revert to the norm when pressure is highest (though this can be overcome).

Watch in any sport, guys can look great in practice, or when there is no pressure, but when the stakes get higher the bad habits surface. It's the QB who looks great until pressure then every throw is off the back foot and not within 5 yds of anyone. Its the Hockey player where every pass is tape to tape until the game when he cant hit a teammate to save his life, Its the baseball player that botches simple plays or throws, etc. etc. etc.

Asking for a friend....but what is an additional 80 games going to show us that the 1st 170 haven't? Is Strome REALLY going to find it? I mean for a kid drafted 3rd overall to be on pace 0.50 points a game and be a top 6 player might be a nice on a team like this....but a team with cup aspirations? NO.

This isn't about him finding the mental side of the game.....I just don't see the physical tools necessary to be a consistent top 6 guy......does he have an above average shot? Does he routinely create scoring chances? Does he make those on his line better?

I really need to understand why so many are willing to hitch their wagon to this kid.....even as a bigger kid, he doesn't use his size to his advantage....he plays small.

I just don't see it.....again he's babysitting a hole but if the light dims in his head at all, Bowman needs to sell high and run away.
- SteveRain

Who's hitching their wagon, many want to run him out of town, at $3 million for the next 2 years is a great deal for the Hawks. This year will be quite the learning experience especially since Toews or Dach won't be out there.

The question is why do people want to run him out of town? Unlike many here i want to make sure he doesn't amount to anything as opposed to trading him away and he does amount to something.

Unlike many here i don't know if he's going to be Good or bad, all i know is he shows flashes. And instead of transition hockey i want sustained pressure in the ozone and eventually i think Strome can be a part of that equation.

There is speed, then there are players with speed. anyone remember Jack Skille?
- powerenforcer

Plenty of great skaters. Leddy is a beautiful skater. Stalberg was fast, Anathasiou is fast........lots of guys are fast, only the greats can combine the speed with as you infer, being able to play at that speed.

Watch a guy like Eichel skate. He looks like he is putting in almost no effort, and he is blowing past guys like they are not moving.

Question for you and the board. Not a shot at any other posters here, in case anyone is extra sensitive today....

Can a player increase speed significantly after age 23? How about short area quickness?

My sense is that it is rare. But there's been huge advances in training and fitness, so maybe it is possible.
- mohel

A friend’s son, who’s 23, plays pro basketball in Italy where’s he trying to showcase himself to get NBA tryouts. We had this same discussion as his son is working on getting quicker while also trying to get bigger. Apparently his coach said most speed is natural based on the type of muscle the athlete has. I’m assuming you’ve heard of quick twitch muscle, that is required for speed? Guys like Dylan Larkin or Connor McDavid are probably born with this muscle type. However speed can be improved regardless of muscle type. It requires a combination of specific exercises building the core, hips, knees and ankles. The workouts include working on explosive power to improve the first three steps. Also players have to work on technique. This basketball player works on footwork over and over.

Also, and this is my opinion, when judging guys like Strome or Dach remember a tall guy will look slower than a smaller player. My Dad pointed out to me years ago when I laughed at how Frank Mahovlich skated that he looked slow because smaller players used more strides. He said watch how many players out skate him. While he wasn’t the fastest guy I noticed he had no problem keeping up.

Question for you and the board. Not a shot at any other posters here, in case anyone is extra sensitive today....

Can a player increase speed significantly after age 23? How about short area quickness?

My sense is that it is rare. But there's been huge advances in training and fitness, so maybe it is possible.
- mohel

To be fair i can't recall anyone writing Strome was a 2nd line center for a SC team on Theo's blogs, maybe youre getting your blogs confused?

The bolded is true for most players not named Patrick Kane or Connor McDavid.

Maybe they decided that making long term deals has bit them in the ass too many times and a prudent short term deal would be a better idea.

Can't have enough skilled centers and teams need 40-50 point producers outside of the super stars.
- fattybeef

Some of it is style and/or effectiveness.

Vegas was successful that first year because they had a bunch of lunch pail guys that played balls to the wall. Regardless of skill, that is not Stromes style, nor does it seem to be the style of play being dictated by Colliton at this point, other than maybe the 4th line.

Also, to answer SteveRains earlier point, yeah his speed (i.e. lack thereof) means that many times the play off the rush will be stunted if you are expecting him to be the driver of the play. What has been shown however, is that if he is playing with Kane, who like to control the puck and drive the play, his late entry into the zone can be used as an option as a trailer, which he has shown to do. Also, if you limit him to a higher amount of offensive zone starts, the issue of being late into the zone is no longer a problem.

Asking for a friend....but what is an additional 80 games going to show us that the 1st 170 haven't? Is Strome REALLY going to find it? I mean for a kid drafted 3rd overall to be on pace 0.50 points a game and be a top 6 player might be a nice on a team like this....but a team with cup aspirations? NO.

This isn't about him finding the mental side of the game.....I just don't see the physical tools necessary to be a consistent top 6 guy......does he have an above average shot? Does he routinely create scoring chances? Does he make those on his line better?

I really need to understand why so many are willing to hitch their wagon to this kid.....even as a bigger kid, he doesn't use his size to his advantage....he plays small.

I just don't see it.....again he's babysitting a hole but if the light dims in his head at all, Bowman needs to sell high and run away.
- SteveRain

They're not a cup contender.. far from it. It will take years for that to happen, so in the meantime, you have Strome on a team like this. If he finds something in that time, he becomes a potentially tradeable asset. Other than that, he is what he is, on a team that is what they are. They need to fill the roster and why not him, instead of someone making more money on a team that won't be a contender.

A friend’s son, who’s 23, plays pro basketball in Italy where’s he trying to showcase himself to get NBA tryouts. We had this same discussion as his son is working on getting quicker while also trying to get bigger. Apparently his coach said most speed is natural based on the type of muscle the athlete has. I’m assuming you’ve heard of quick twitch muscle, that is required for speed? Guys like Dylan Larkin or Connor McDavid are probably born with this muscle type. However speed can be improved regardless of muscle type. It requires a combination of specific exercises building the core, hips, knees and ankles. The workouts include working on explosive power to improve the first three steps. Also players have to work on technique. This basketball player works on footwork over and over.

Also, and this is my opinion, when judging guys like Strome or Dach remember a tall guy will look slower than a smaller player. My Dad pointed out to me years ago when I laughed at how Frank Mahovlich skated that he looked slow because smaller players used more strides. He said watch how many players out skate him. While he wasn’t the fastest guy I noticed he had no problem keeping up.
- paulr

Spot on Paul

There are guys in the NHL based on raw athletic skill, there are guys that are there based on superior technique, there are guys who are there based on work ethic and heart, there are guys based on superior hockey sense, and then there are the superstars who put them all together.

Some of it is style and/or effectiveness.

Vegas was successful that first year because they had a bunch of lunch pail guys that played balls to the wall. Regardless of skill, that is not Stromes style, nor does it seem to be the style of play being dictated by Colliton at this point, other than maybe the 4th line.

Also, to answer SteveRains earlier point, yeah his speed (i.e. lack thereof) means that many times the play off the rush will be stunted if you are expecting him to be the driver of the play. What has been shown however, is that if he is playing with Kane, who like to control the puck and drive the play, his late entry into the zone can be used as an option as a trailer, which he has shown to do. Also, if you limit him to a higher amount of offensive zone starts, the issue of being late into the zone is no longer a problem.
- TheTrob

Again I assume it's where he ends up positionally.....winger or center. Right now he's playing center out of necessity but when healthy isn't he best suited to play wing?

Than to your point and betweenthedots, the notion of sustained pressure is fine as Strome doesn't have as large of defensive responsibilities and you don't have to penalize his line by being gun shy starting them off in their own zone.

I hope the kid pans out.....I do, but if he doesn't Hawks need to realize what they have and than evaluate if that spot is best used for a younger cheaper player who may have larger upside.

We all also need to realize that Kane carrying these slower skaters and trying to dance around guys waiting for trailers is fine now....but eventually he too will start to slow down.