Theo - The defenders running around like kids in an under 6 soccer league has been consistent since JC took over.

It has to be part of the silly high pressure \ man to man scheme he tries to play which is counter intuitive to anything that anyone learns about any sport.

It was going to be a rough year to watch regardless but woof. Pretty awful start even with another full training camp to learn whatever nonsense this guy is peddling.
- fattybeef

Do I need to watch last night again?
Wasn't once brutally enough?

But Kane did not have all that many chances. Four shots.
DeBrincat two shots
Strome one goal on one shot.


They played some team used to going fast after the win by snuffing things out and quickly creating offense.

Cannot believe the Hawks extended Colliton two more years...hopefully he doesn't ruin the development of any of these young defensemen. Truthfully, these guys are going to suck for a bit. Let them play and grind through it...similarily to what Keith and Seabrook experienced in their early days.
- frafra

I will worry if the team gets outhustled and outplayed by Detroit. I think it is not fair to compare this team to TB today. Detroit will be a better measuring stick.

I just want to say, i know we are in a rebuild, i know to have lower expectations, i agree with all this.

Now when i say what i say its not because we traded Nik for him, blah blah blah

He's just a bad defenseman , i speak of Murphy he's been in this league for how long? Just going to point out 3 things last night

Murphy finally gets the puck on his stick in his own end after a long battle, there's a wide open forward misses him like Mitch misses with the deep pass, icing, lose faceoff back of our net

2, 1 deflected goal he's standing in front of Subban while the forward is in front of the net, covered him like the Bears zone defense

3 they are on a PK and the he gets caught to far up ice which allows a 2 on 1 which is miffed by the opponent

He's just a bad defenseman he has zero intuition, blah blah blah he trains really hard , but it's really no coincidence the Hawks since he's been here haven't sniffed the playoffs
Not saying it's all his fault just saying he does nothing to help you win games
- BetweenTheDots

Looks like a full rebuild to me. There are 4 players left from the Cup team. Seabs is untradeable, and it would hinder the rebuild to trade him because it would require huge sweeteners to do so. Better to ride it out with him. Keith could be traded for a decent asset, but he has a low cap hit and seems to be a good mentor. Toews is sick and his future is in doubt. Trading him is not possible now. Kane could bring a decent return, but not many teams are taking on contracts that big these days.

Also, Toews, Kane and Keith have NMC's in their contracts, and have earned the right to ride it out if they choose to do so.

Right now they have no players who will make them "fake good" and hurt their draft position. They are built to finish near the bottom of the league. If that's not a rebuild, what would one look like?
- mohel

Thank you. Spot on.

Also, if I hear one more person say the Hawks are "wasting" Kane's last years I'm going to lose it. Running an NHL team is a business. There are rules and restrictions as to what you can and cannot do. Keeping the gang together is not possible, and even if it was the gang would be mostly washed up by now.

If Kane and Toews didn't want to be in this position, they would have jointly agreed to take less when they negotiated, or negotiated less term. Now, they were justified and well within their rights to go after every dollar that was due to them and I don't begrudge them any of that. However, it's not like the FO didn't do everything that they could to keep the team a contender for as long as possible.

They needed a #2 center - Anisimov
Needed better center depth - Vermette (they even got Richards to play for nothing one year)
Needed Defensive depth - Timonen
Needed more grit and be tougher to play against in the PO's - Ladd, and Wiese
A lot of these moves worked out, others did not.
Not to mention the 4-5 EU free agents that were - or at least became - solid contributors (Panarin, Kahun, Kempny, Rutta, etc)

All of the trades entailed losing a prospect, draft pick or both. All of the signings take up cap space. Eventually, you run out of assets and money and you have to start over. Did they try to drag this out too long? Sure. Is Colliton going to be the coach when they are competitive again? Likely not. Ultimately, this was going to happen regardless. It sucks. We have to deal with it. If Kane, or any other "core" member wants to leave, they can tell Stan they will waive for any other team in the league and Stan can go and try to get the best return. Otherwise, they can do their best to get this team to play right and be as competitive as possible while bringing the kids along.

No rant at all, nice to have a sunny disposition. Your right for sure it would not matter with this group. Toews is a great captain and just missing him is bad news. Back to the coach though even with a healthy team I do not like his decision making. Similarily as a Flyer fan primarily when Hakstol and Hextall were running my team I called for their heads two years in advance for a variety of reasons (especially the trading of Schenn) Funny thing I was right, the team is solid now that the two goofs are gone. I think the top priorety right now is finding a goalie for the future as the cupboard is bare, Subban can back up but that is all he can handle. All the Subbans decline with age or wear out their welcome. I really feel for Kane being in this mess and Kubalik is going to suffer as well..........
- joegreif17

More coaches are understanding now that they have to make sure they're on the same page with the players. The players have a say. That's the nature of the beast. It appears Colliton has players not believing in his system that he is trying to implement, since he's been the coach, and appears to be breakdowns more frequently. This is the NHL. Your job as a coach is to win and place players in the best position to succeed.

Exposed again by a elite team just shows how far hawks have to go before becoming a cup contender again.
- Scott1977

I don’t think anybody here is expecting a cup contender for a couple of years(at least). All we want is player development so we can get to that level by say 2023, let’s hope. We have some good young defensemen, can they get to that level? I think so, time will tell. We need a couple of more high picks and we should be very competitive by that time frame.

Murphy is just a bad defenseman , i speak of Murphy he's been in this league for how long? Just going to point out 3 things last night

Murphy finally gets the puck on his stick in his own end after a long battle, there's a wide open forward misses him like Mitch misses with the deep pass, icing, lose faceoff back of our net

2, 1 deflected goal he's standing in front of Subban while the forward is in front of the net, covered him like the Bears zone defense

3 they are on a PK and the he gets caught to far up ice which allows a 2 on 1 which is miffed by the opponent

He's just a bad defenseman he has zero intuition, blah blah blah he trains really hard , but it's really no coincidence the Hawks since he's been here haven't sniffed the playoffs
Not saying it's all his fault just saying he does nothing to help you win games
- BetweenTheDots

I don't see why you don't let him go to the Kraven if it saves you from some agreement deal that includes sweeteners to not case any Hakw roster guys.

Murphy is stronger more fluid but thought he was guy still in development and not "the guy on the cusp" that was part of his arrival hype.
He was a reasonable salary when it happened maybe more than upside.

He's improved.

But look around the league - I see a lotta guys as good or better, with upside.

I would expect TB to make few, if any, changes for Friday night. Maybe the backup goalie plays, but they’ll be rolling 4 lines and 3 pairs, working on things at game speed that they couldn’t in practice scrimmages.

Hopefully, JC does make adjustments, and the team is more competitive.

Subban had a tough night, but the only bad goal was the one he kicked in on himself. Actually pretty good on the 1st save, needs to be better on rebound control.

Most younger defenseman that play get high praise beyond their performances even if they have done little on-ice to elevate them to high levels. Boqvist was rushed and the development into a stronger and more reactive player in his end is where he keeps putting the work in. The billings precede these guys and reality adjusts when they go into the first two salary negotiations when their teams decide what they are or what they REALLY are going to be in time.





Oh, a few blogs back there were discussions of who Kubalik reminded fans here of, and there were more than one comparisons to NHL high impact players.
To me, so far, 30 goals or not, he is basically a shot.

He reads opportunities at excellent level and he instinctively gets to where he is open, but it takes reading your linemates, and they also had to, when possessing the puck, have high end offensive instincts to find that open shot.

It is not like right now Kubalik can change the game by his lonesome.

So his line is not off the hook or him, but team game agent the champs.

(How many Kubalik's do the 'bolts have? 'cause they had guys through the lineup making things happen w/o forcing themselves outside their range / capabilities?

You can ask for more from him, or settle for the shot aspect.
- wiz1901

You think having Boqvist on a leash and not letting him run around a bit is having more of a negative effect then a positive one? Seems like they are trying a bit too hard to make the player into something he isn't.

Whatever Toews has, I suspect he would happily trade it for Covid. He might even throw in a #1 pick.
- mohel

If it is not COVID, as some have suggested, then it must be pretty serious. Let's just hope he gets better.

I don't see why you don't let him go to the Kraven if it saves you from some agreement deal that includes sweeteners to not case any Hakw roster guys.

Murphy is stronger more fluid but thought he was guy still in development and not "the guy on the cusp" that was part of his arrival hype.
He was a reasonable salary when it happened maybe more than upside.

He's improved.

But look around the league - I see a lotta guys as good or better, with upside.
- wiz1901

Wasn't Murphy wearing an A last night? Clearly, if he was, he is held in high-regard by the team

My point is Kane... teams aren't into taking big contracts? I'm sure you could 100% find someone to take Kane, where he would accept a trade, and would make the Hawks better. 100% convinced. He's your best, and really only trade chip. You could move players like Shaw for draft picks. To me, yes, they are rebuild mode. But they aren't full on.
- HawksHype

I don't want to bite, but I will. What does "full on" mean to you? Trading Kane? trading all vets? You can't just have a team full of rookies and first year players. You end up being the Oilers. All the high dollar contracts have NMC's. This is not a trivial point. They have enormous say in whether, or if, they move which automatically decreases the value of the return because you have less bidders.

Then if a trade is made and the return isn't up to what you (collectively) want, Stan is an idiot...

I don't see why you don't let him go to the Kraven if it saves you from some agreement deal that includes sweeteners to not case any Hakw roster guys.

Murphy is stronger more fluid but thought he was guy still in development and not "the guy on the cusp" that was part of his arrival hype.
He was a reasonable salary when it happened maybe more than upside.

He's improved.

But look around the league - I see a lotta guys as good or better, with upside.
- wiz1901

I like Murphy in general. He's a solid defenseman, but I agree with you that they likely will not need to (and shouldn't) protect him, especially if doing so would require sending any assets to Seattle. The good thing about this year is that they Hawks have the ability to see where many of their D prospects are in terms of development. They have to protect Keith and Seabrook (unless they waive). Most of the young guys are exempt except Carlsson and Zadorov, I believe.

Not necessarily true. I have a family member who has been battling the symptoms of Covid such as fatigue, aches, etc. for 9 months now, unable to return to full time work. My wife was sidelined for almost 3 months with the same, fatigue, constant cough, etc. While for many people Covid is little more than a nuisance for others it has long term effects, including reduced lung functions and heart issues.
- TheTrob

Do you know what he has? The list of things that cause severe fatigue for a 32 year old elite athlete ain't pretty. If it were Covid or mononucleosis, we'd likely know about it.

I wish him well, as I know you do, too.

- scottak

Hey, it's Old One Trick! How's it going?

Pretty much expected that outcome against TB, whom they basically have been playing together at a high level for years now....

Hawks missing arguably at the least their 2nd line (19,77,92) to injuries.....

IF they played, three forwards last night don't even suit up (22 & 73 for sure)….

It is what it is....

A transition / rebuild year...

Roll four lines consistently.... See who makes progress as the season goes on....

That group of forwards is going to struggle mightily to score goals.....

Hopefully the young guys (51, 16, 27, 74, 46, 38, 48, 23) show progress and get better by the end of the season...

That's why I will be watching....

Expecting anything else is pointless.....

Exhale.......
- mike7076

The young Forwards progressing in this group would mean going from AHL to bottom 6 contributors. As for the higher line young guys, Kubalik may never have another year as good as last year and everyone knows I think Dinky sucks.

Is that a surprise?
- mohel

No

Thank you. Spot on.

Also, if I hear one more person say the Hawks are "wasting" Kane's last years I'm going to lose it. Running an NHL team is a business. There are rules and restrictions as to what you can and cannot do. Keeping the gang together is not possible, and even if it was the gang would be mostly washed up by now.

If Kane and Toews didn't want to be in this position, they would have jointly agreed to take less when they negotiated, or negotiated less term. Now, they were justified and well within their rights to go after every dollar that was due to them and I don't begrudge them any of that. However, it's not like the FO didn't do everything that they could to keep the team a contender for as long as possible.

They needed a #2 center - Anisimov
Needed better center depth - Vermette (they even got Richards to play for nothing one year)
Needed Defensive depth - Timonen
Needed more grit and be tougher to play against in the PO's - Ladd, and Wiese
A lot of these moves worked out, others did not.
Not to mention the 4-5 EU free agents that were - or at least became - solid contributors (Panarin, Kahun, Kempny, Rutta, etc)

All of the trades entailed losing a prospect, draft pick or both. All of the signings take up cap space. Eventually, you run out of assets and money and you have to start over. Did they try to drag this out too long? Sure. Is Colliton going to be the coach when they are competitive again? Likely not. Ultimately, this was going to happen regardless. It sucks. We have to deal with it. If Kane, or any other "core" member wants to leave, they can tell Stan they will waive for any other team in the league and Stan can go and try to get the best return. Otherwise, they can do their best to get this team to play right and be as competitive as possible while bringing the kids along.
- Chunk

To further the bolded....those trades were all made in an effort to MAXIMIZE the prime years of those guys. And they did. So, the Hawks have done right by the boys, for sure. And vice versa, too. Today's team is the price ALL PARTIES knew they were paying.

The young Forwards progressing in this group would mean going from AHL to bottom 6 contributors. As for the higher line young guys, Kubalik may never have another year as good as last year and everyone knows I think Dinky sucks.
- rpeters01

Whaaaaaaat? I never got that impression.

He had a bad game last might. He was playing the point for a bit on the power play (could have just been a rotation, but he was there for a while), and his decisions with the puck were bad. I actually think he is better with Toews than Strome. Toews can command the middle of the ice and still distribute the puck. That leaves ADB the ability to attack openings and shoot with less interference. He's gotten better at working through checks, but needs to improve more.

I would kind of like to see him on a line with either Soderberg or Shaw centering eventually.

I don’t think anybody here is expecting a cup contender for a couple of years(at least). All we want is player development so we can get to that level by say 2023, let’s hope. We have some good young defensemen, can they get to that level? I think so, time will tell. We need a couple of more high picks and we should be very competitive by that time frame.
- Angotti

I dunno if I would put my head on the block like that until I see a solid trio of high end attacking forwards.

Dach would be one,

That is why I look at the nice group of 2021 draftees, not just the defenseman.

Even a strong centre who projects as a true second line centre, a strong top ling, are the type of adds they need.

I an not looking for an Elais Petterson level gift, in the draft but if a Trevor Zegras type upside if there I am calling that name at the mike.

all the Red Wing whining may have resulted in a restructuring of 2021 draft where the bottom teams would have more certainty they were going to not get booted too far out of the top talent range. There is multiple options in changes that are being discussed.

A. All non playoff teams being able by winning the lottery with THREE or two winners, where those winners do not drop to one two three but are allowed to move up 3-4 slots.
B. There us talk that all 16 non playoff teams Geta. chance at slot one with a win but then the order stays in reverse standings order.
and
C. There swill be a one team winner who simply moves 3-4 slot closer to #1 overall.
I really feel fairly certain that we won't see
D. all three of the 16 non-playoff teams pushing the three bottom feeders to 4, 5, and 6 over-all.

(LOL! WE know Kraken were guaranteed a starting pick equal to the three worst established clubs, but they too are quite concerned that they get GoldenKnighted out of the top four as Vegas was.

In the 2017 draft lottery, the expansion Vegas Golden Knights had the same odds of winning the lottery as the team that finished with the two fewest points in the 2016–17 NHL season (This ended up being the Arizona Coyotes). Vegas earned the lowest possible pick that they could receive, and selected sixth overall in the first-round and third in each subsequent round of this draft.

The lottery wins and BIG JUMPS had them settling for Cody Glass and never getting to
choose Miro Heiskanen,Cale Makar ,and Elias Pettersson.

I don't think the current bad teams will take kindly to a New York Rangers type team, who should have drafted tenth bouncing down those ten spots to #$1

Most younger defenseman that play get high praise beyond their performances even if they have done little on-ice to elevate them to high levels. Boqvist was rushed and the development into a stronger and more reactive player in his end is where he keeps putting the work in. The billings precede these guys and reality adjusts when they go into the first two salary negotiations when their teams decide what they are or what they REALLY are going to be in time.





Oh, a few blogs back there were discussions of who Kubalik reminded fans here of, and there were more than one comparisons to NHL high impact players.
To me, so far, 30 goals or not, he is basically a shot.

He reads opportunities at excellent level and he instinctively gets to where he is open, but it takes reading your linemates, and they also had to, when possessing the puck, have high end offensive instincts to find that open shot.

It is not like right now Kubalik can change the game by his lonesome.

So his line is not off the hook or him, but team game agent the champs.

(How many Kubalik's do the 'bolts have? 'cause they had guys through the lineup making things happen w/o forcing themselves outside their range / capabilities?

You can ask for more from him, or settle for the shot aspect.
- wiz1901

Wiz, you and I are old enough to remember Phil Russell. He was a rookie of the year or something close to that. In the playoffs his inexperience got exposed. In the old days they used to say "it takes 3 years to learn how to play defense" and also I'll throw in "5 years to learn how to play quarterback," but I digress...

Hey, it's Old One Trick! How's it going?
- mohel

Bet you didn’t know that JC sucks.

Hello, Wolfie, hope you and the family are well. Many here seem to think there is no cyclical nature to pro sports these days. With salary caps in all the sports (MLB tax system is effectively a cap), it hasn't been possible to keep a great team together long.

The Hawks are at the low of the cycle, especially with Toews and Dach out for most or all of the year. Right now there is only Kane left from the Cup era team, yet many are angry about them struggling. I don't get that, but to each his/her own. I just a high pick and a chance to evaluate a bunch of kids, and go from there. The road is long.
- mohel

All is good Mo, thanks. Totally agree with all you said. This is going to be a rough couple years I think, but instead of playing a bunch of washed up veterans and losing, we'll be playing a lot of young guys who hopefully will develop into that next great Hawks team.

Honsetly, I am just looking for progress this year. And it may take a terrible season so the Hawks can get another blue chipper. Toews and Kane are not part of the Hawks unless they had a couple really bad years there. We will need to replicate that on some level. Difference is those years when we drafted Kane, etc. followed an unmitigated 10-year disaster. This rebuild follows the decline of a dynasty. Those 3 Cups should keep us warm at night.

I do think a rebuild should have happened sooner, but I also understand taking another run at it while the core was still in their prime. Now we move onto the next step. We need to either embrace it or drive ourselves crazy.

As you said, CYCLES!!!