Libertarianism most definitely did not evolve from anything close to social democracy, socialism or communism...the coerced transfer & redistribution of wealth in those political philosophies is diametrically opposed to the individual freedoms in which libertarianism is based.

Closest would be the small-government conservative free-market private property philosophies.

Libertarianism most definitely did not evolve from anything close to social democracy, socialism or communism...the coerced transfer & redistribution of wealth in those political philosophies is diametrically opposed to the individual freedoms in which libertarianism is based.

Closest would be the small-government conservative free-market private property philosophies.
- SlightlyOffside

Some would disagree with you:

Libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists, especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists. Those libertarians seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.

Thanks Carol, not a huge fan of the Jersey, not the logo but the colour gradient or whatever the experts call it. I don’t mind the whale, nothing says West Coast like an Orca. I mean, all those whale watching companies aren’t taking people out to catch a glimpse of a McCaw brother are they?

Some would disagree with you:

Libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists, especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists. Those libertarians seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.
- bloatedmosquito

I’m firmly a libraryatarian, I’ve got an app and can read books for free on my iPad.

Some would disagree with you:

Libertarianism originated as a form of left-wing politics such as anti-authoritarian and anti-state socialists like anarchists, especially social anarchists, but more generally libertarian communists/Marxists and libertarian socialists. Those libertarians seek to abolish capitalism and private ownership of the means of production, or else to restrict their purview or effects to usufruct property norms, in favor of common or cooperative ownership and management, viewing private property as a barrier to freedom and liberty.
- bloatedmosquito

Interesting. I’ve never seen that description. Usually it’s expressed as strong personal freedoms, including an emphasis on property rights, though I can see a link to anarchism. Libertarian communism seems a complete oxymoron.

Thanks for sharing.

Interesting. I’ve never seen that description. Usually it’s expressed as strong personal freedoms, including an emphasis on property rights, though I can see a link to anarchism. Libertarian communism seems a complete oxymoron.

Thanks for sharing.
- SlightlyOffside

Libertarianism always confused me until I read that the American right wing co-opted the term for their own personal use.

Historically speaking, libertarianism began as a left wing political philosophy.

Libertarianism always confused me until I read that the American right wing co-opted the term for their own personal use.

Historically speaking, libertarianism began as a left wing political philosophy.
- bloatedmosquito

I’ve clearly learned my definition from the American right wing. Welcome the expanded view!

I’m firmly a libraryatarian, I’ve got an app and can read books for free on my iPad.
- 1970vintage

Free books? Communist.

I’ve clearly learned my definition from the American right wing. Welcome the expanded view!

- SlightlyOffside

I’m still trying to figure out what a “Lincoln Republican” is. When I look it up the descriptions are so loose and ambiguous.

From what I can determine, it’s a Republican with a conscience.

I’m still trying to figure out what a “Lincoln Republican” is. When I look it up the descriptions are so loose and ambiguous.

From what I can determine, it’s a Republican with a conscience.
- bloatedmosquito

Free books? Communist.
- bloatedmosquito

You only get to borrow them, you have to give them back after 20 days so someone else can read them. Double communist?

Libertarianism always confused me until I read that the American right wing co-opted the term for their own personal use.

Historically speaking, libertarianism began as a left wing political philosophy.
- bloatedmosquito

I would disagree. The political philosophy that leads to "libertarianism" is capitalist/private rights based. It shares elements with leftist ideas but it didn't originate as a left-ish ideal.

The problem lies in that there is no such thing as libertarianism or conservatism or liberalism. The lines get moved by the interpretation of the individual.

Anyway, I'd love to get into the philosophers like John Locke to explain my view but it's fcuking Friday and yeah... It's fcuking Friday afternoon.

I would disagree. The political philosophy that leads to "libertarianism" is capitalist/private rights based. It shares elements with leftist ideas but it didn't originate as a left-ish ideal.

The problem lies in that there is no such thing as libertarianism or conservatism or liberalism. The lines get moved by the interpretation of the individual.

Anyway, I'd love to get into the philosophers like John Locke to explain my view but it's fcuking Friday and yeah... It's fcuking Friday afternoon.
- RealityChecker

Let's get back to Amy Grant and Kenny G.

Let's get back to Amy Grant and Kenny G.
- Marwood

Hey man, don't push me, I'll cut you!!!

In high school I saw van Halen (5150), motley Crue (girls, girls, girls) and metallica (enter Sandman.)

I feel like those are embarrassing and awesome.

The concerts I can brag about are KRS-one/Boogie Down Productions in the late 80s and Public Enemy early 90s.

I would disagree. The political philosophy that leads to "libertarianism" is capitalist/private rights based. It shares elements with leftist ideas but it didn't originate as a left-ish ideal.

The problem lies in that there is no such thing as libertarianism or conservatism or liberalism. The lines get moved by the interpretation of the individual.

Anyway, I'd love to get into the philosophers like John Locke to explain my view but it's fcuking Friday and yeah... It's fcuking Friday afternoon.
- RealityChecker

Nothing hockey related worth talking about.

This is why libertarianism confuses me. There are two schools; American and the rest of the world. Here’s another take...

Although libertarianism in the United States has become associated to classical liberalism and minarchism, with right-libertarianism being more known than left-libertarianism,political usage of the term until then was associated exclusively with anti-capitalism, libertarian socialism and social anarchism and in most parts of the world such an association still predominates.

Hey man, don't push me, I'll cut you!!!

In high school I saw van Halen (5150), motley Crue (girls, girls, girls) and metallica (enter Sandman.)

I feel like those are embarrassing and awesome.

The concerts I can brag about are KRS-one/Boogie Down Productions in the late 80s and Public Enemy early 90s.
- RealityChecker

It's a long story that involves acid but myself and 2 buddies ended up backstage at the 40th anniversary of Atlantic Records at MSG in New York. We didn't last long back there but ended up on the floor as Zeppy hit the stage and played their 3 song set.

Nothing hockey related worth talking about.

This is why libertarianism confuses me. There are two schools; American and the rest of the world. Here’s another take...

Although libertarianism in the United States has become associated to classical liberalism and minarchism, with right-libertarianism being more known than left-libertarianism,political usage of the term until then was associated exclusively with anti-capitalism, libertarian socialism and social anarchism and in most parts of the world such an association still predominates.
- bloatedmosquito

I still disagree. And I will not be pulled back in. I swear to god I actually thought about going into the crawl space and pulling up some books.

American libertarianism is heavily influenced by Ayn Rand. Aside from being a hack writer....

I will not be pulled in!

It's a long story that involves acid but myself and 2 buddies ended up backstage at the 40th anniversary of Atlantic Records at MSG in New York. We didn't last long back there but ended up on the floor as Zeppy hit the stage and played their 3 song set.
- Marwood

Yeah, that beats my stories!

I still disagree. And I will not be pulled back in. I swear to god I actually thought about going into the crawl space and pulling up some books.

American libertarianism is heavily influenced by Ayn Rand. Aside from being a hack writer....

I will not be pulled in!
- RealityChecker

Oh, but you will!

Libertarian Marxist currents often draw from Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels' later works, specifically the Grundrisse and The Civil War in France; emphasizing the Marxist belief in the ability of the working class to forge its own destiny without the need for a state or vanguard party to mediate or aid its liberation. Along with anarchism, libertarian Marxism is one of the main currents of libertarian socialism.

BOOM.

Oh, but you will!

Libertarian Marxist currents often draw from Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels' later works, specifically the Grundrisse and The Civil War in France; emphasizing the Marxist belief in the ability of the working class to forge its own destiny without the need for a state or vanguard party to mediate or aid its liberation. Along with anarchism, libertarian Marxism is one of the main currents of libertarian socialism.

BOOM.
- bloatedmosquito

Libertarian Marxists? We're talking libertarianism.
Btw, John Locke 17th century. Karl Marx 19th century.

Old people and conservatives can’t handle change.

Whatcha gonna do?
- dbot

Call them old and tell them to (frank) off?

Cheers Carol.

I’m with ya and liking those jerseys.
Anyone wanna send one to nz for Xmas?
- dbot

Speaking of jerseys that Maradona All Black jersey was a class act.

Interesting. I’ve never seen that description. Usually it’s expressed as strong personal freedoms, including an emphasis on property rights, though I can see a link to anarchism. Libertarian communism seems a complete oxymoron.

Thanks for sharing.
- SlightlyOffside

I found out the other day from an online test that a friend posted. I associate 89% conservative.

Speaking of jerseys that Maradona All Black jersey was a class act.
- A_SteamingLombardi

You see the female soccer player, who sat down and turned her back during his tribute?

Wait, what? I always thought libertarians were left wing. Didn’t it evolve out of Marxism?
- bloatedmosquito

Ayn Rand is widely considered the mother of libertarianism, it's been pushed into being a right wing talking point, don't tread on me, my rights/ my life anti government are all born of it. Ron Paul was the closest to a libertarian I've seen, his son Rand is a right wing goof.

It, like anarchy, are not really left or right although they've been embraced by various ideologues at various times.