vote harvesting is a real thing that goes on; which for some stupid reason is legal in many states.

no doubt both parties do it. dems seems much better at it.

but sure. everything is on the up and up. the candidate that next to nobody was voting for got the most # of votes ever.

This despite not stealing votes away from Trump. And far less republican votes going to the Libertarian candidate.
- Tumbleweed

In 2016 there were 4.5M Libertarian votes. This year there's been around 1.5M. The Green party also has about 1M fewer voters. You also have, so far, about 7M more people voting. So there's about 11M additional votes. Biden is up 7M from Hillary, and Trump is up 6M from where he was in 2016.

If Biden wins the election, the swing happened by convincing independents to make a sane choice, and also seemingly by at least a larger swing of GOP voters going blue this year than the other way around.

I can't fathom why people like Trump - and at this point it's irrelevant. We have no common ground to see eye-to-eye on that subject. But I think any rational Trump supporter, which means that perhaps they are more traditionally Republican, can understand why he is offputting to many people. That would explain the voter sway.

Harvesting is a thing but it's a red herring in terms of having any impact.

Voter turnout is the new concern? Voter turnout is up across the board because this was an important election and because the call to vote has never been louder (even from the GOP supporters).

Looking at where it's up the most - Michigan, Texas, Florida, and Wisconsin. Looks to me like it helped both sides. Or I guess those surprising numbers in Miami Dade that helped Trump don't create suspicion? ....only the big number of votes in Wisconsin and Michigan?
- The Law

what doesn't make sense is the party who won the state last time losing depsite getting more votes this time.

it's a rare phenomena in presidential elections. happened too many times this election.

logically - it's extremely hard to flip a state without flipping some voters to your side.

what doesn't make sense is the party who won the state last time losing depsite getting more votes this time.

it's a rare phenomena in presidential elections. happened too many times this election.

logically - it's extremely hard to flip a state without flipping some voters to your side.
- Tumbleweed

It's not a zero sum affair though, estimates have total turnout increasing by 5% compared to last election, which in itself represents an 8% increase in number of voters (assuming population increase since last election is insignificant)

what doesn't make sense is the party who won the state last time losing depsite getting more votes this time.

it's a rare phenomena in presidential elections. happened too many times this election.

logically - it's extremely hard to flip a state without flipping some voters to your side.
- Tumbleweed

the Democrats have a good ground game.

So yes, it makes absolute sense.

Okay are we really going to pretend like it's not rigged?
- Komisaurus Rex

the Democrats have a good ground game.

So yes, it makes absolute sense.
- Atomic Wedgie

the point is - it rarely happens. so no, it doesn't make sense.

and dems were not excited about biden.

obama drove in an increase in turnout. makes sense. people were excited for him and had bush fatigue....

sure - many people hate trump. hardcore supports vote for biden. but a likeable candidate drives increases.

see trump. his voters love him. that's why he got more votes.

what doesn't make sense is the party who won the state last time losing depsite getting more votes this time.

it's a rare phenomena in presidential elections. happened too many times this election.

logically - it's extremely hard to flip a state without flipping some voters to your side.
- Tumbleweed

Weird things happen when the incumbent is seen as responsible for the unnecessary deaths of a quarter million people. But sure, go with voter fraud.

I just want to know who gets the Las Vegas stripper vote?

the point is - it rarely happens. so no, it doesn't make sense.

and dems were not excited about biden.

obama drove in an increase in turnout. makes sense. people were excited for him and had bush fatigue....

sure - many people hate trump. hardcore supports vote for biden. but a likeable candidate drives increases.

see trump. his voters love him. that's why he got more votes.
- Tumbleweed

the problem is that there are indeed a lot of people that love trump...

again, from a european perspective -- i'd rather have trump win than (biden)/harris (+soon hillary) who are as much unlikeable as trump himself.

the fact that voters can actually get excited by trump/biden as candidates, is staggering... such a big country should be able to do much much better as for presidential candidates.

Weird things happen when the incumbent is seen as responsible for the unnecessary deaths of a quarter million people. But sure, go with voter fraud.
- Canada Cup

this is such a moronic statement..
fyi -- infectious disease outbreaks will not be stopped by any president - the only way to prevent this is to prepare really well (rapid response programmes and R&D -- all take 5+ years to develop)

Armed mob outside of ballot tabulating centers.

But its ok, theyre white...so nothing will be done.

In 2016 there were 4.5M Libertarian votes. This year there's been around 1.5M. The Green party also has about 1M fewer voters. You also have, so far, about 7M more people voting. So there's about 11M additional votes. Biden is up 7M from Hillary, and Trump is up 6M from where he was in 2016.

If Biden wins the election, the swing happened by convincing independents to make a sane choice, and also seemingly by at least a larger swing of GOP voters going blue this year than the other way around.

I can't fathom why people like Trump - and at this point it's irrelevant. We have no common ground to see eye-to-eye on that subject. But I think any rational Trump supporter, which means that perhaps they are more traditionally Republican, can understand why he is offputting to many people. That would explain the voter sway.
- Monkeypunk

this is the relevant point.

maybe you should consider why 69 million people voted for him?

I get he's a love/hate guy. He's an bumhole. He thinks he's better than everyone. He is a Trumpsupremacist. And so on.

But if you look at things objectively; he has also done a number of good things. Cnn would have you believe he has made 100% wrong decisions. It's bad for society when people believe things that are completely outrageous like that.

the point is - it rarely happens. so no, it doesn't make sense.

- Tumbleweed

Full moons rarely happen - they still make sense.

and dems were not excited about biden.

- Tumbleweed

Agreed.

obama drove in an increase in turnout. makes sense. people were excited for him and had bush fatigue....

- Tumbleweed

Do you really not think that people had Trump fatigue?

sure - many people hate trump. hardcore supports vote for biden. but a likeable candidate drives increases.

- Tumbleweed

At the risk of sounding patronizing, I really think this is a case where your selective choices in media have not given you the full impression as to how much Trump is hated -by Americans and indeed across the world. He's the most polarizing politician in the history of your country. He prompts strong reactions from both sides.

see trump. his voters love him. that's why he got more votes.
- Tumbleweed

And higher numbers hate him. That's why Biden got more votes.

what doesn't make sense is the party who won the state last time losing depsite getting more votes this time.

it's a rare phenomena in presidential elections. happened too many times this election.

logically - it's extremely hard to flip a state without flipping some voters to your side.
- Tumbleweed

I assume in the months to come we'll have lots of analysis that isolates and looks at the specific states/counties.

More voters in swing states where parties have worked hard to get "their" vote turn out could totally flip the state - I don't see that as suspicious.

How many GOP's in California don't vote bc they know the outcome and see it as a waste of time? If hypothetically California became a swing possibility then you bet the GOP would spend a fortune on the ground to maximize turnout.

You're franking with people who have power you can't even imagine, Bixi.

Check your car before you start it.
- Atomic Wedgie

I just want to know who gets the Las Vegas stripper vote?
- Canada Cup

Her name was Ronda...

the problem is that there are indeed a lot of people that love trump...

again, from a european perspective -- i'd rather have trump win than (biden)/harris (+soon hillary) who are as much unlikeable as trump himself.

the fact that voters can actually get excited by trump/biden as candidates, is staggering... such a big country should be able to do much much better as for presidential candidates.
- MaximusAurelius

How good of you to speak for all of europe on this point

hopefully its just swayze's ghost watching Demi and her new girlfriend doing nude scenes.
- Fakepartofme

I'd watch that.

I just want to know who gets the Las Vegas stripper vote?
- Canada Cup

Niagara Falls > Las Vegas.

this is such a moronic statement..
fyi -- infectious disease outbreaks will not be stopped by any president - the only way to prevent this is to prepare really well (rapid response programmes and R&D -- all take 5+ years to develop)
- MaximusAurelius

No he cant stop them but he could have prevented deaths.
He didnt react, he dismantle the team and protocols obama had in place last year.
So its not a moronic statement

I don't get it.

How would tapping the hood help him kill the cat?

- Scabeh

Apparently the Cops frown upon shooting the neighbours cat with a sling shot. Even if you use frozen brussels sprouts...

Who knew.. But did the Cop ever laugh hard...

this is the relevant point.

maybe you should consider why 69 million people voted for him?

I get he's a love/hate guy. He's an bumhole. He thinks he's better than everyone. He is a Trumpsupremacist. And so on.

But if you look at things objectively; he has also done a number of good things. Cnn would have you believe he has made 100% wrong decisions. It's bad for society when people believe things that are completely outrageous like that.
- Tumbleweed

What positives as he done for average Americans? What positives as done for those who make under 75gs a year? Or positives for education, healthcare, environment, infrastructure?

I assume in the months to come we'll have lots of analysis that isolates and looks at the specific states/counties.

More voters in swing states where parties have worked hard to get "their" vote turn out could totally flip the state - I don't see that as suspicious.

How many GOP's in California don't vote bc they know the outcome and see it as a waste of time? If hypothetically California became a swing possibility then you bet the GOP would spend a fortune on the ground to maximize turnout.
- The Law

congressional races are still important. parties push for turnout everywhere.

Once the democracts are done completing the few hundred thousand ballots they need in georgia and north carolina; they'll move on to new york and cali to ensure they hold congress.

filling in 100's of thousands of ballots across numerous states will take another couple of weeks. time consuming work!