Because that line goes to absolute garbage without ZAR.
- MattStrat

Could be that when he’s out he gets replaced by a guy who shouldn’t be playing in the NHL. Plus the line still is expected to go out and be the shutdown line since the 3rd line is garbage.

Cool lmao Won't argue about it anymore
- Barnaby36

I didnt know we were arguing, sorry, but no matter, I welcome all forms of conversation around here haha.


I guess in regards to what we are discussing, we havent seen that line with one of the other two members missing for long, so I guess its possible they are equally important.

Ive seen ZAR just barely miss many chances or hit a bar or post a lot. He paces for around 10 goals a year on the 4th line but was on pace for around 15 two seasons ago before getting injured. So with that elite defensive play, cheap price tag and the ability to pot double digit goals with limited minutes, I really like the guy.

Cool lmao Won't argue about it anymore
- Barnaby36

https://www.naturalstattr...9944&p3=8479293&p4=0&p5=0

I didnt know we were arguing, sorry, but no matter, I welcome all forms of conversation around here haha.


I guess in regards to what we are discussing, we havent seen that line with one of the other two members missing for long, so I guess its possible they are equally important.

Ive seen ZAR just barely miss many chances or hit a bar or post a lot. He paces for around 10 goals a year on the 4th line but was on pace for around 15 two seasons ago before getting injured. So with that elite defensive play, cheap price tag and the ability to pot double digit goals with limited minutes, I really like the guy.
- MattStrat

Oh I do too I was thinking maybe they should test Blueger as the 3rd line C. I could see him working with McCann and Rodrigues. Solid game all around.

McCann-Blueger-Rodrigues
AstonReese-Jankowski-Tanev

Jankowski and Tanev were teammates in College so maybe there's some old chemistry to be found.

Given what you posted, why do you say this? It really doesn’t matter if the defensive forward’s bread is buttered in the defensive or offensive zone. Either way the pick isn’t going towards the goal. What you posted argues is that ZAR isn’t an elite backchecker, he’s actually an elite forechecker, and his line greatly benefits from it.
- Victoro311

I was responding to a post where he commented on one part of my post.

So they already proved you can't just stick anyone in his (ZAR's) place and get the same results.- Tojo.

The same could be said about taking Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup. I don't call ZAR the motor of the line that's all. - Barnaby

I don't disagree with any part of this. -Tojo

I was agreeing the line could also suffer by removing Blueger or Tanev.

And I don't consider ZAR the motor for that line so I agreed with that. I believe their success is chemistry and each guy having a defined role. Tanev uses his speed to disrupt defensemen from getting a clean breakout. ZAR then reacts to where Tanev is forcing the play and once it gets to puck battles along the boards he excels. And Blueger is generally taking away the best outlet.

None of that is meant to take away from ZAR, whom by now you should know I like. Really want to give them all credit. But I do feel the reverse is true that ZAR might not be as effective without that speedy disrupter funneling plays towards him.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20192020&thruseason=20192020&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=PIT&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2020-08-01&td=2020-09-28&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=8476927&p2=8479944&p3=8479293&p4=0&p5=0
- joecool2931

This is all tells me that perhaps Bluey is the weakest link of the 3....

This is all tells me that perhaps Bluey is the weakest link of the 3....
- MattStrat

Yes, i would say that. Shows ZAR is probably the strongest member. and Tanev is most likely the weakest link on that line. Which i think to most would be surprising, including me.

I was responding to a post where he commented on one part of my post.

So they already proved you can't just stick anyone in his (ZAR's) place and get the same results.- Tojo.

The same could be said about taking Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup. I don't call ZAR the motor of the line that's all. - Barnaby

I don't disagree with any part of this. -Tojo

I was agreeing the line could also suffer by removing Blueger or Tanev.

And I don't consider ZAR the motor for that line so I agreed with that. I believe their success is chemistry and each guy having a defined role. Tanev uses his speed to disrupt defensemen from getting a clean breakout. ZAR then reacts to where Tanev is forcing the play and once it gets to puck battles along the boards he excels. And Blueger is generally taking away the best outlet.

None of that is meant to take away from ZAR, whom by now you should know I like. Really want to give them all credit. But I do feel the reverse is true that ZAR might not be as effective without that speedy disrupter funneling plays towards him.
- Tojo.

Ah gotcha. I think I’d agree with that on principle, but with reservations. We know the line cratered without ZAR, but we don’t know if the line would similarly crater without Tanev or Blueger because we just didn’t see it and don’t have those data points. I think all the info we have suggests ZAR is super important for the success of that line, but there’s not really anything saying that Tanev and Blueger aren’t just as important.

I will say though that ZAR was still a play driver during brief stints with Malkin, so I think we can say that’s a skill he has independent of who his linemates are and something he brings to the fourth line and not a stat that comes from being a beneficiary of Tanev and Blueger.

Ah gotcha. I think I’d agree with that on principle, but with reservations. We know the line cratered without ZAR, but we don’t know if the line would similarly crater without Tanev or Blueger because we just didn’t see it and don’t have those data points. I think all the info we have suggests ZAR is super important for the success of that line, but there’s not really anything saying that Tanev and Blueger aren’t just as important.

I will say though that ZAR was still a play driver during brief stints with Malkin, so I think we can say that’s a skill he has independent of who his linemates are and something he brings to the fourth line and not a stat that comes from being a beneficiary of Tanev and Blueger.
- Victoro311

What if the Pens sprinkled some of the bottom up towards the top(or top down towards bottom haha):

Guentz-Sid-ZAR
Tanev/Zucker-Geno-Rust
Zucker/Tanev-McCann-Kapanen
Jankowsk/Bluey- Bluey/Jankowski- ERod

I still think they need to break up the fourth line, especially if Poulin is ready. Between ZAR, Blue, Jank, Erod, Scevior and Lafferty they can make a decent 4th line. It may not be as good as the current one, but that doesn't mean it won't be good or effective. I think the benefits of spreading out the lineup far outweigh keeping that one line together.

If Poulin is ready I'm putting him on the 1st line, not the 3rd. With the Pens history of using 3rd line players in the top-six I don't think it's a stretch as long as Poulin's skating is up to par.

Jake-Sid-Poulin
Tanev-Geno-Rust
Zucker-McCann-Kap
ZAR-Blue-Scev/Jank/Erod/Laff

Tanev could possibly be the new Dupuis. His production probably won't go up a ton, but I think he will take a lot of work away from Geno and Rust letting them focus more on other aspect fo the game. Plus the speed they'd have on that line between Tanev and Rust would make them hard to play against.

I still think they need to break up the fourth line, especially if Poulin is ready. Between ZAR, Blue, Jank, Erod, Scevior and Lafferty they can make a decent 4th line. It may not be as good as the current one, but that doesn't mean it won't be good or effective. I think the benefits of spreading out the lineup far outweigh keeping that one line together.

If Poulin is ready I'm putting him on the 1st line, not the 3rd. With the Pens history of using 3rd line players in the top-six I don't think it's a stretch as long as Poulin's skating is up to par.

Jake-Sid-Poulin
Tanev-Geno-Rust
Zucker-McCann-Kap
ZAR-Blue-Scev/Jank/Erod/Laff

Tanev could possibly be the new Dupuis. His production probably won't go up a ton, but I think he will take a lot of work away from Geno and Rust letting them focus more on other aspect fo the game. Plus the speed they'd have on that line between Tanev and Rust would make them hard to play against.
- Rinosaur

Oh yeah! Poulin! If he can be effective and stick around it changes a lot of things for the better, obviously. Its an IF though .

Oh yeah! Poulin! If he can be effective and stick around it changes a lot of things for the better, obviously. Its an IF though .
- MattStrat

I feel like even if Poulin comes in and is a legit top 9 guy, we still need one more forward to really compete. And that’s if the team remains healthy.

Ah gotcha. I think I’d agree with that on principle, but with reservations. We know the line cratered without ZAR, but we don’t know if the line would similarly crater without Tanev or Blueger because we just didn’t see it and don’t have those data points. I think all the info we have suggests ZAR is super important for the success of that line, but there’s not really anything saying that Tanev and Blueger aren’t just as important.

I will say though that ZAR was still a play driver during brief stints with Malkin, so I think we can say that’s a skill he has independent of who his linemates are and something he brings to the fourth line and not a stat that comes from being a beneficiary of Tanev and Blueger.
- Victoro311

Yeah, there's a lot of data we still don't have because thankfully Blueger and Tanev defied being Penguins and stayed healthy last year, so it's still theory.

And I agree, ZAR is not just a beneficiary of his linemates. I just think the blend of skills is what makes it work so well. They could all still succeed with other linemates.

You just probably don't have as good of a shutdown line unless you found a replacement with similar abilities. ZAR's skill set I don't think they have elsewhere on the team. Some think Lafferty could play Tanev's role, I'm not sure he's consistently tenacious enough though.