If by cherry picking you mean guys who have a large sample size of being bad in the league then sure, they’re cherry picked.

Like I’ve said before, I think Matheson has the potential to be an ok bottom pairing d man. Contract is awful, but he may be useful on the ice so long as he’s sheltered. I think the worst regulars we will have from an on ice perspective are Ceci and Sceviour.
- Victoro311

I agree but hopefully they'll play their heart out. Sceviour was a guy Panthers fans liked a lot on the 4th line. I'd say he's another Aston-Reese type at best. Ceci is a big question mark....

I agree but hopefully they'll play their heart out. Sceviour was a guy Panthers fans liked a lot on the 4th line. I'd say he's another Aston-Reese type at best. Ceci is a big question mark....
- Barnaby36

Penguins fans liked Bobby Farnham. That’s not a good measure. Sceviour isn’t near the defensive eliteness that ZAR is at. If the Selke were based completely on defensive play, ZAR should have won it last year.

Penguins fans liked Bobby Farnham. That’s not a good measure. Sceviour isn’t near the defensive eliteness that ZAR is at. If the Selke were based completely on defensive play, ZAR should have won it last year.
- Victoro311

I'm not the biggest ZAR fan tbh. I think he's pretty average. He's lucky to have Blueger and Tanev with him, both better players imo.

He’s hilarious but (frank) does he need to stop interrupting people all the god damn time. He doesn’t let Rogan get a thought out before interrupting him. Giving him whiskey was a huge mistake hahah
- j.boyd919

I mean, he'll never do that, but Joe Rogan does a spectacular job of directing him and keeping calm when he does. But its always a lot easier to give people leeway when talking when youre actually friends with them.

Joe Rogan really is the man, this thing hes going through with Spotify really should scare people. And they talk about the tech censoring problem, but it really is a problem far more important than any 0.01% deadly virus.

Penguins fans liked Bobby Farnham. That’s not a good measure. Sceviour isn’t near the defensive eliteness that ZAR is at. If the Selke were based completely on defensive play, ZAR should have won it last year.
- Victoro311

Just because I like to see, can you compare the analytics of the two players? How far off is Sceviour to ZAR?

Or, hear me out here, Matheson is actually bad like his sample size suggests and all this does is spread the stink between two pairings leaving Dumtang as our only viable pairing against opposing top sixes.

Look, what is the one thing that pissed us off about Johnson when he was here? It’s that he sucked and the entire game plan revolved around making him suck less. What ended up happening was that Johnson would suck less at other players‘ expenses because the only way to make him “work“ was either putting him with Letang or giving him overly offensive deployments with Malkin. We all know how these guys did when saddled with the Johnson anchor. With our forward and scoring depth being what it is next season we cannot afford to shackle our best players with any kind of handicap. We need to give them the absolute best chance to succeed and put up points when they’re on the ice and just hope Jarry ate his wheaties when they’re off it.

If Matheson ends up taking a huge leap out of no where from mediocre bottom pairing D man to second pairing caliber puck mover, then we can revisit this conversation. But right now there is no reason to even consider breaking up Pettrino, which by all the stats are a very solid second pairing, for the sake of hiding Matheson and Ceci slightly better.
- Victoro311

Meh, just an experiment I'd like to see. I think like Rino was saying Matheson does do some things well so if he has a partner that covers well for the turnovers he may become an asset. Or it may as you say hurt the better players too much. I don't know, but I'm a fan of experimenting early in the season.

Difference between that and JJ was that even when it was tried, it was clear it wasn't succeeding but they kept stubbornly clinging to it. If they try those pairings and they don't work, I will quickly abandon it.

I'm not the biggest ZAR fan tbh. I think he's pretty average. He's lucky to have Blueger and Tanev with him, both better players imo.
- Barnaby36

ZAR was the motor behind that line being a “shut down” line. They struggled to shut out her lines down without ZAR in the lineup.

I mean, he'll never do that, but Joe Rogan does a spectacular job of directing him and keeping calm when he does. But its always a lot easier to give people leeway when talking when youre actually friends with them.

Joe Rogan really is the man, this thing hes going through with Spotify really should scare people. And they talk about the tech censoring problem, but it really is a problem far more important than any 0.01% deadly virus.
- joecool2931

Ted Cruz ripped Jack Dorsey a new one for censoring the Biden laptops. That was hilarious. Dorsey is a clown. When he was on Rogan with Tim Pool it showed how poopty and biased Twitter is.

ZAR was the motor behind that line being a “shut down” line. They struggled to shut out her lines down without ZAR in the lineup.
- j.boyd919

This shows chemistry only. It doesn't mean he's better than Tanev or Blueger. All I'm saying is ZAR isn't irreplaceable.
Take Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup and it won't be the same.

Just because I like to see, can you compare the analytics of the two players? How far off is Sceviour to ZAR?
- nateca44

https://public.tableau.com/profile/bill.comeau#!/vizhome/SKATR2019-2020/SKATR

Here ya go. You can go play with this to compare players.

This shows chemistry only. It doesn't mean he's better than Tanev or Blueger. All I'm saying is ZAR isn't irreplaceable.
Take Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup and it won't be the same.
- Barnaby36

There's a difference between ZAR being irreplaceable and having someone who can replace him.

The former I can see because despite his better metrics I didn't feel he was guy that keyed the line and it was a result of chemistry as each guy on that line had a specific role and played it well.

The latter though was a huge problem because when ZAR was out as that line plummeted. So they already proved you can't just stick anyone in his place and get the same results.

Stylistically, I get why a lot of people don't like him. His best skill, IMO, is using his frame to pin the puck along the boards against elite talent which is hardly exciting. But it's pretty effective.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/bill.comeau#!/vizhome/SKATR2019-2020/SKATR

Here ya go. You can go play with this to compare players.
- j.boyd919

Nice!

There's a difference between ZAR being irreplaceable and having someone who can replace him.

The former I can see because despite his better metrics I didn't feel he was guy that keyed the line and it was a result of chemistry as each guy on that line had a specific role and played it well.

The latter though was a huge problem because when ZAR was out as that line plummeted. So they already proved you can't just stick anyone in his place and get the same results.

Stylistically, I get why a lot of people don't like him. His best skill, IMO, is using his frame to pin the puck along the boards against elite talent which is hardly exciting. But it's pretty effective.
- Tojo.

The same could be said about taking Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup. I don't call ZAR the motor of the line that's all.

Just because I like to see, can you compare the analytics of the two players? How far off is Sceviour to ZAR?
- nateca44

Hockeybuzz doesn't let me imbed anymore, but here's the link to ZAR v Sceviour comparison since 2018: https://public.tableau.co...n=viz_share_link&:embed=y

ZAR is in the 99th and 92nd percentile in expected goals against and shots against respectively relative to his teammates. Despite the fact that he's putrid in the expected goals for and shots for categories, he's so strong defensively that he still has good expected goal and shot shares (95th and 62nd percentile respectively). For all of his offensive ineptitude the guy is a legit stud on defense.

Sceviour on the other hand is definitely above average in expected goals against and shots against, but it doesn't make up for his lack as offense as much as ZAR. His expected goal share is pretty good at the 64th percentile, but his shot share is really bad in the 26th percentile. That's concerning.

ZAR is a play driver who is defensively elite. Sceviour is pretty good at defense in a vacuum but don't drive play at all.

Ted Cruz ripped Jack Dorsey a new one for censoring the Biden laptops. That was hilarious. Dorsey is a clown. When he was on Rogan with Tim Pool it showed how poopty and biased Twitter is.
- j.boyd919

He really did, but its all a facade, until they actually do something. It's funny how like half all my favorite people to listen to are all disaffected liberals...(tim pool, Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin, the hodgetwins)

The same could be said about taking Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup. I don't call ZAR the motor of the line that's all.
- Barnaby36

That's an opinion based on zero fact. We saw that line crater defensively when ZAR got hurt. We never saw what happened when it was Blueger or Tanev being out or bumped up because when healthy these guys played near every shift together and Blueger and Tanev were healthy all season.

Penguins fans liked Bobby Farnham. That’s not a good measure. Sceviour isn’t near the defensive eliteness that ZAR is at. If the Selke were based completely on defensive play, ZAR should have won it last year.
- Victoro311

Farnham! I didn't like him, but I enjoyed watching him play if that makes any sense. Dude was a loon. I remember him saying he wants to be a cannibal every time he's on the ice. You could tell players were legitimately scared when he was on the ice, but he wasn't good at hockey, so yeah...

That's an opinion based on zero fact. We saw that line crater defensively when ZAR got hurt. We never saw what happened when it was Blueger or Tanev being out or bumped up because when healthy these guys played near every shift together and Blueger and Tanev were healthy all season.
- Victoro311

This is also partially why I'm advocating breaking up the line and using Tanev on the third. I think Tanev is an effective player, but I think the fourth line can still be good without him, but he can make the third line stronger. I know that sounds a bit counterintuitive, but I think it makes sense.

He really did, but its all a facade, until they actually do something. It's funny how like half all my favorite people to listen to are all disaffected liberals...(tim pool, Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin, the hodgetwins)
- joecool2931

My lib sister sent my brother some kids books for his son about boys wearing purses and dressing up like mermaids. (frank)ing idiot she is.

Ted Cruz ripped Jack Dorsey a new one for censoring the Biden laptops. That was hilarious. Dorsey is a clown. When he was on Rogan with Tim Pool it showed how poopty and biased Twitter is.
- j.boyd919

Then boycott twitter. It's amazing to me how self styled Constitution junkies don't understand 1A, given how it's probably the most straight forward amendment in the Bill of Rights. 1A doesn't allow people to say whatever they want without repercussions. It allows people to say whatever they want without interference or legal penalization by the the government. Private corporations, therefore, have the absolute right to kick people out of their shop or off their platform who they believe are not in line with the philosophy of their company or that they do not want associated with their product because the concept of corporate personhood is pretty well established in this country through decisions like Citizens United. It's the same concept as when the Supreme Court upheld the ability of a Christian bakery to refuse service for a homosexual wedding. As morally repugnant as I personally believe that is on the part of the bakery, it was the correct ruling.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a wide market for conspiracy theories like Sandy Hook trutherism. If there were, Dorsey wouldn't be able to censor guys like Jones and keep a big enough base to profit without a competitor gobbling up market share. This basically comes down to red pillers whining that X private company isn't giving them a platform to spread misinformation, when really it's just that their ideas aren't equitable in the free market of ideas. The invisible hand doesn't care about your opinions or feelings, it just regulates. Otherwise, why isn't there some uber successful radical right wing social media site that has rivaled twitter and Facebook yet?

For the record I hate Dorsey and Zuc. I think they're scumbag profiteers who are setting bad legal precedents in the realm of individual privacy and data mining that puts us on track towards dystopia. But the constant whining about the censorship they do is ridiculous. They have the right to, and you have the right to boycott them. Use your ability as a market agent and vote with your wallet instead of trying to get the government to do something unconstitutional to create an outcome you personally prefer.

My lib sister sent my brother some kids books for his son about boys wearing purses and dressing up like mermaids. (frank)ing idiot she is.
- j.boyd919

Lol did the kid take to the books?!? lol

My lib sister moved to San Fran. Lucky for me though, she isn't too combative, to me, just our father. I don't think she would ever do that that though haha. Maybe as a joke.

https://jfresh.substack.c...se-has-the-best-defensive

Here's an article from J.Fresh about ZAR. If you're not familiar with his work, he's an analytics guy, but instead of just telling you a guy is good because of his statistics, he gives a lot of context about what a guy is doing that makes his stats good.

The same could be said about taking Blueger or Tanev out of this lineup. I don't call ZAR the motor of the line that's all.
- Barnaby36

I don't disagree with any of this.

Farnham! I didn't like him, but I enjoyed watching him play if that makes any sense. Dude was a loon. I remember him saying he wants to be a cannibal every time he's on the ice. You could tell players were legitimately scared when he was on the ice, but he wasn't good at hockey, so yeah...
- Rinosaur

I always compared him to Luis Mendoza from the Mighty Ducks movies. Uber fast but had zero control over his body while skating.

https://jfresh.substack.com/p/zach-aston-reese-has-the-best-defensive

Here's an article from J.Fresh about ZAR. If you're not familiar with his work, he's an analytics guy, but instead of just telling you a guy is good because of his statistics, he gives a lot of context about what a guy is doing that makes his stats good.
- Tojo.

Wow, what a write up!