So you’re saying Leafs win.
- Canada Cup

Intangibles, baby!

Craig button has leafs as 4th best Canadian team for the up coming season

Why is this clown still employed.
- burn

Intangibles, baby!
- Monkeypunk

Wooohooo

*books downtown hotel*

I think prior to last season, very few people expected the crapfest they got from the Leafs. It's certainly eroded a lot of the waning support they had. Not many expected Andersen to be that poor in net, and while there was an obvious expectation that the defense would be porous, there was the expectation that the offense generated from the back-end would compensate.

From the on-set the style did not align with the roster construction and the rest is history.

If you look at the team from December 1 to the abrupt end of the season, winning percentage among Canadian teams was (with where they were in terms of the overall placement in the league):

9. Toronto 0.607
10. Calgary 0.598
16. Vancouver 0.571
17. Edmonton 0.558
21. Winnipeg 0.534
24. Montreal 0.478
29. Ottawa 0.443

If you skip ahead and look from January onwards, it's probably a more realistic picture of the how the teams performed last year:

6. Edmonton 0.638
8. Calgary 0.607
18. Toronto 0.552
19. Vancouver 0.552
21. Winnipeg 0.532
25. Montreal 0.468
30. Ottawa 0.403



- Monkeypunk

I think you really need to break the Leafs' season into three distinct phases:

- Hating playing under Babcock (under achieving)
- Loving playing under Keefe (looking really good)
- Playing without their best d-men (just trying to keep their heads above water)

The middle one was good!

related

NHL Offseason Power Rankings: Which contenders could challenge the Lightning?

https://theathletic.com/2...ing-avalanche-contenders/

5 Leafs
12 Edmonton
13 Flams
14 habs
19 nucks
20 jets
33 - Sens

I think that's a fair, (very long) analysis of the situation. Although I'm surprised in your lack of faith on Price despite finally getting a decent backup that will allow him to rest.

Basically, each of these teams have their flaws and depending on how things click or if injuries occur, they could all move up or down the standings.

I don't see anyone there setting themselves apart from the rest of the grou...

Well except for Ottawa, they can stay in the basement alone.

I can't even guess what the standings would look like, it's a total crapshoot to me.
- Scabeh

Yes, it was very long. You sort of reach a point in typing when you realize . . . "in for a dollar in for a pound."

The thing with Price is . . .is it just rest? Is it more? In 2013 - 2016, he was fantastic at his worst. In 2017 he was pretty poor. And I'm being polite. Of any goalie with more than 40 starts, he was objectively the third worst, including Scott Darling and Craig Anderson as the worst two. In 2018, he rebounded to one of the top-10 starters in the league. Last year his performance was about the same as Andersen. Who are we getting this year?

related

NHL Offseason Power Rankings: Which contenders could challenge the Lightning?

https://theathletic.com/2...ing-avalanche-contenders/

5 Leafs
12 Edmonton
13 Flams
14 habs
19 nucks
20 jets
33 - Sens
- senstroll

Luszczyszyn

Luszczyszyn

- Scabeh

Fans to dom
why do you hate my team?

Yes, it was very long. You sort of reach a point in typing when you realize . . . "in for a dollar in for a pound."

The thing with Price is . . .is it just rest? Is it more? In 2013 - 2016, he was fantastic at his worst. In 2017 he was pretty poor. And I'm being polite. Of any goalie with more than 40 starts, he was objectively the third worst, including Scott Darling and Craig Anderson as the worst two. In 2018, he rebounded to one of the top-10 starters in the league. Last year his performance was about the same as Andersen. Who are we getting this year?
- Monkeypunk

Well in 2017, you can explain his stats with the team being... well... horrendous in front of him. Could he have done more? Maybe. But on most nights, I'd hardly could blame him.

In 2018, he got back to what I consider his usual self and left us wanting more in 2019, especially when the team got through two different 8 games losing streak, we needed him to step up and he didn't.

But mind you, Price's performance, especially with an improved defense in front of him, is the least of my worries.

Habs success will be defined by Anderson's performance, Kotkaniemi and Suzuki's capacity to perform as they did during the playoffs throughout a season and, and I cannot stress this enough, if adding guys like Toffoli and Anderson can help their dreadful powerplay of the last 2 years.

related

NHL Offseason Power Rankings: Which contenders could challenge the Lightning?

https://theathletic.com/2...ing-avalanche-contenders/

5 Leafs
12 Edmonton
13 Flams
14 habs
19 nucks
20 jets
33 - Sens
- senstroll

Oh word

I think you really need to break the Leafs' season into three distinct phases:

- Hating playing under Babcock (under achieving)
- Loving playing under Keefe (looking really good)
- Playing without their best d-men (just trying to keep their heads above water)

The middle one was good!
- Atomic Wedgie

The fan in me loves the middle one. The objective side of me recognizes that there's an uptick in play when Babcock was gone, so it almost can't count - because old habits die hard. They had everyone back in the playoffs and had moments when they looked unbeatable and had moments (albeit fewer) where they looked very beatable. Columbus did play well last year as well. Noting that they had a bad start to the season, and from both December or January onwards they were a top-8 team in the standings.

Korpisalo was excellent so it's an unfair thing to draw a REAL contrast from. The Leafs objectively played better overall.

To me, after last year, though, they have to prove again that they can be the team everyone thinks they should be. They're not going to get respect in the media until they do.

I would put the Leafs as the best Canadian team..on paper right at this moment.

They were on pace for a 95 point season with some pretty average and below average tendin. I will assume we get a more normal'ish Andersen, and Campbell is an improvement on what they got from backups last season.

the moves so far as a whole look like they improved a little
- senstroll

The team being healthy is in and of itself an improvement, too. Insane amount of hurt last season on the Leafs.

I think you really need to break the Leafs' season into three distinct phases:

- Hating playing under Babcock (under achieving)
- Loving playing under Keefe (looking really good)
- Playing without their best d-men (just trying to keep their heads above water)

The middle one was good!
- Atomic Wedgie

The big ? is what was the post season/you’re not allowed to call it playoffs. I’m prepared to say there was a certain part anomaly based on not being able to figure out how to start up. But there’s also a chunk of not knowing how to step up. I think Dubas said they have a tendency to wait for things to happen rather than making things happen. If they can sort that poop out, play consistently like they did in the middle section, I think they’re better than any other Canadian team.

Well in 2017, you can explain his stats with the team being... well... horrendous in front of him. Could he have done more? Maybe. But on most nights, I'd hardly could blame him.

In 2018, he got back to what I consider his usual self and left us wanting more in 2019, especially when the team got through two different 8 games losing streak, we needed him to step up and he didn't.

But mind you, Price's performance, especially with an improved defense in front of him, is the least of my worries.

Habs success will be defined by Anderson's performance, Kotkaniemi and Suzuki's capacity to perform as they did during the playoffs throughout a season and, and I cannot stress this enough, if adding guys like Toffoli and Anderson can help their dreadful powerplay of the last 2 years.
- Scabeh

That's very fair. If the Habs are going to go back to relying on Price to carry them, then Bergevin's work has been moot. It has proven to take them to a 17th place finish and a less than enthusiastic draft position. I think I'm with you - I'm not sure if Suzuki and Kotkaniemi are there yet, but we're about to find out. I don't love Toffoli, but frankly he'd been playing on a team that just didn't care. Put in a winning - or least competitive - situation and maybe he gives you a 30 goal player.

The team being healthy is in and of itself an improvement, too. Insane amount of hurt last season on the Leafs.
- GreatGigInTheSky

i just assume they deal with injuries again, and all other teams do as well. the Leafs were not really special in that regard imo

Yeah man. They're fighting over...what, exactly? The two sides can't take a look around and realize what they have in common and be grateful. They're fighting over pronouns and twitter flame wars and what Starbucks puts on their cups during the winter. First world problems.
- Zezel

Sure there are some similarities but Republicans are much further down the scum scale. Here’s an example: In May, Democrats in House pass $3T Covid relief Bill with money for people out of work, hazard pay, $ for testing, etc. Republicans in Senate sit on it and did nothing except confirm a Supreme who will cut off health benefits, abortion access, environmental protections. As soon as she was confirmed they closed up the Senate.

There’s lot of sleaze to go around on both sides but there’s no contest where the real poop sits.

Id go

Toronto
Montreal
Calgary
Edmonton
Winnipeg/Vancouver
Ottawa
- senstroll

Calgary
Toronto
Edmonton
Vancouver
Winterpeg
Montreal
Ottawa

Is my guess. Price is amazing though and could easily get them ahead of Winterpeg.

related

NHL Offseason Power Rankings: Which contenders could challenge the Lightning?

https://theathletic.com/2...ing-avalanche-contenders/

5 Leafs
12 Edmonton
13 Flams
14 habs
19 nucks
20 jets
33 - Sens
- senstroll

i just assume they deal with injuries again, and all other teams do as well. the Leafs were not really special in that regard imo
- senstroll

The devil's advocate position there is that I do think they have positioned themselves to be a little more resilient this year.

Last year Martin Marincin was the 7th defenseman. This year he is probably 10th.

Last year when an injury happened, it pushed Ceci and Barrie into more defensive minutes against better competition. Both of which had their obvious issues.

This year if an injury happens to a Muzzin or Rielly, the guys who bump up - Dermott, Holl or Bogosian are probably better suited than Ceci or Barrie were at goal prevention. I don't like Bogosian vey much, but he has shown that in the right cases with the right partner insulating him, he can be effective for about 20 minutes / game.

On the offensive side, last year we filled in with Petan, Clifford, Shore, Malgin, Brooks, Aberg - and Moore and Timashov who aren't that important, but I had a soft spot for the way Moore played.

This year we'll fill in with Engvall, Boyd, Barbanov, Anderson, Petan, Malgin, Brooks and Aberg.

So our fill-in depth is already better than last year up front, too.

We can even look at Campbell over Hutchinson as a likely upgrade, and Aaron Dell as a third string probably offers more security than Kaskisuo did.

The devil's advocate position there is that I do think they have positioned themselves to be a little more resilient this year.

Last year Martin Marincin was the 7th defenseman. This year he is probably 10th.

Last year when an injury happened, it pushed Ceci and Barrie into more defensive minutes against better competition. Both of which had their obvious issues.

This year if an injury happens to a Muzzin or Rielly, the guys who bump up - Dermott, Holl or Bogosian are probably better suited than Ceci or Barrie were at goal prevention. I don't like Bogosian vey much, but he has shown that in the right cases with the right partner insulating him, he can be effective for about 20 minutes / game.

On the offensive side, last year we filled in with Petan, Clifford, Shore, Malgin, Brooks, Aberg - and Moore and Timashov who aren't that important, but I had a soft spot for the way Moore played.

This year we'll fill in with Engvall, Boyd, Barbanov, Anderson, Petan, Malgin, Brooks and Aberg.

So our fill-in depth is already better than last year up front, too.

We can even look at Campbell over Hutchinson as a likely upgrade, and Aaron Dell as a third string probably offers more security than Kaskisuo did.
- Monkeypunk

Can?!?!?!?!?

Can!?!?!?!?!?!?

There's no doubt in my mind.

i just assume they deal with injuries again, and all other teams do as well. the Leafs were not really special in that regard imo
- senstroll

Yeah, they kinda were.

And even though Rielly played a lot he didn't play a single healthy game. Nor did Snakevares.

Add on a month-ish of playing and hating playing for Babcock. Should make the Leafs better standings wise.

Can?!?!?!?!?

Can!?!?!?!?!?!?

There's no doubt in my mind.
- Atomic Wedgie

Hell, the 3rd string goalie is an upgrade on Hutch.

Wait! Jimmy Jones escaped the massacre and is hiding out in Grimsby?
- Canada Cup

I can neither confirm nor deny. But here, drink this, it is refreshing:

Wasnt trying to.
- Fakepartofme

That was pretty clear.

Can?!?!?!?!?

Can!?!?!?!?!?!?

There's no doubt in my mind.
- Atomic Wedgie

Do you remember last preseason when we were all so certain that Hutchinson was an upgrade over Sparks and would be at least a little over a .500 backup? We knew he wasn't good, but he would be better . . .

Once bitten, twice shy.

Hutch was not clutch.

Hutch was even worse than not so much.

(BTW, from those metrics, as much as we hate to give him props, Max was bang on with his call for Hutch).