For all we know Sceviour was the cost in moving Hornqvist

Florida seemed to be the ones concerned with the Hornqvist risk, perhaps Sceviour was the cost of taking on that risk? who knows, were you there? I wasn't

You can't look at every other bargain out there and assume that the Penguins could have had the same player for the same price. When players are willing to take discount contracts, there are lots of teams bidding for them and the player generally has his pick of places to land, Would I have taken Pat Maroon for 800k, hell yes, but he wasn't going anywhere but Tampa for that price

Penguins are offering 1 year deals because we have Marino needing a contract next year and nobody coming off the books and a flat cap

Hindsight is 20/20. If I knew Covid was going to crash the NHL market, I would have traded everyone I could last year at the deadline, Not signed Tanev, Not resigned Petts, not traded for Zucker and gone into this offseason with 25-35 Million in capspace and rebuilt the entire team

But hindsight isn't 20/20
- TheGame316

Agreed...

Most of us just don't make the trade.
- Tojo.

That would be a bad decision

Horn would be a boat anchor playing in the bottom 6 (as he was in the playoffs) with the obvious way they are trying to design it going forward. If Tyler Johnson has no value, Hornqvist has less than no value. Matheson is at least a part we can use. The cost of Sceviour is 300k over some anonymous scrub that could replace him. So think of Matheson as 5.1 million for this year if it makes you feel better which would make it a lateral move over the cost of Hornqvist

It also gives you the flexibility to move Petts in a trade, if necessary if Matheson ends up being able to fit top 4

A 3rd pairing that can be offensive benefits all lines. Hornqvist not being in the bottom 6 benefits the bottom 6. The cost of Matheson/Sceviour can not be looked at in a vacuum without accounting for the cost of keeping Hornqvist, The only alternative was a Hornqvist buyout, which would be highly unlikely and cost 1.7 million over 6 years

The next JJ, I've followed this board for some time and new players are very rarely given a fair shake. It all depends if RW likes them, if he does, 90% of the board will say he was a great signing, if not it was a waste of cap space...
- PENS1989

You don’t follow that close if you think 90% of the ppl respect RW’s opinion here. On top of that, usually what gets mentioned in the blogs is what is talked about in here first then RW finds some charts and graphs on said mentioned players.

Look at your post I responded to. You brought him back up. You are so misguided i this one. If TJ comes in, it doesn’t matter how ZAR and Sceviour go out. It’s a win.
- Rinosaur

Dawg grab a beer and take the L. You’ve missed Tojo’s whole point and you’re arguing just to argue.

Dawg grab a beer and take the L. You’ve missed Tojo’s whole point and you’re arguing just to argue.
- Victoro311

Personally I don’t think TJ moves the needle that much. I mean yeah he’s better than zar, Sceviour, laff, etc. But even going from a stacked team to Pitt I don’t see him doing any better than McCann did this past year point wise.

I think I’d rather try to land Hoffman or toffoli for the 5m range, or find more of a Craig smith type for 2-3m. Maybe AA. I think there are a few more good deals that If possible I’d sign and then move someone else out to accommodate. I think this flat cap will really push the parity in the league.

Personally I would have zucker or kap with McCann on the 3rd line to spread the wealth and fill in the rest with who we got. Pray for Poulin/O’Connor to make an impact.

Personally I don’t think TJ moves the needle that much. I mean yeah he’s better than zar, Sceviour, laff, etc. But even going from a stacked team to Pitt I don’t see him doing any better than McCann did this past year point wise.

I think I’d rather try to land Hoffman or toffoli for the 5m range, or find more of a Craig smith type for 2-3m. Maybe AA. I think there are a few more good deals that If possible I’d sign and then move someone else out to accommodate. I think this flat cap will really push the parity in the league.

Personally I would have zucker or kap with McCann on the 3rd line to spread the wealth and fill in the rest with who we got. Pray for Poulin/O’Connor to make an impact.
- 10inchTerror

Hoffman at 1 year 4 Million would be gold

Put Hoffman in the top 6 and roll a 3rd line of McCann Jankowski Kapanen

Hoffman at 1 year 4 Million would be gold

Put Hoffman in the top 6 and roll a 3rd line of McCann Jankowski Kapanen
- TheGame316

Agreed, but not sure how they make the cap room for that. Hopefully JR has something up his sleeve. I think he has 1-2 more trades to make in the next couple days. I call bs on him liking the current 3rd line/thinking he’s done making moves.

That would be a bad decision

Horn would be a boat anchor playing in the bottom 6 (as he was in the playoffs) with the obvious way they are trying to design it going forward. If Tyler Johnson has no value, Hornqvist has less than no value. Matheson is at least a part we can use. The cost of Sceviour is 300k over some anonymous scrub that could replace him. So think of Matheson as 5.1 million for this year if it makes you feel better which would make it a lateral move over the cost of Hornqvist

It also gives you the flexibility to move Petts in a trade, if necessary if Matheson ends up being able to fit top 4

A 3rd pairing that can be offensive benefits all lines. Hornqvist not being in the bottom 6 benefits the bottom 6. The cost of Matheson/Sceviour can not be looked at in a vacuum without accounting for the cost of keeping Hornqvist, The only alternative was a Hornqvist buyout, which would be highly unlikely and cost 1.7 million over 6 years
- TheGame316

You have more confidence in Matheson than I do. I think he's an anchor himself. There are some tools so there is a chance he turns it around, but I wouldn't bet on it. I'm certainly not expecting him to be second pair quality.

Replacing Hornqvist with with Rodrigues and Jankowski, didn't make the bottom 6 better. Hornqvist did score 17 goals after all.

I'll agree with most of your other points about Hornqvist, I just still don't believe they came out better.

Personally I don’t think TJ moves the needle that much. I mean yeah he’s better than zar, Sceviour, laff, etc. But even going from a stacked team to Pitt I don’t see him doing any better than McCann did this past year point wise.

I think I’d rather try to land Hoffman or toffoli for the 5m range, or find more of a Craig smith type for 2-3m. Maybe AA. I think there are a few more good deals that If possible I’d sign and then move someone else out to accommodate. I think this flat cap will really push the parity in the league.

Personally I would have zucker or kap with McCann on the 3rd line to spread the wealth and fill in the rest with who we got. Pray for Poulin/O’Connor to make an impact.
- 10inchTerror

Liking or not liking Johnson isn’t the point of what Tojo was saying though. The point is that Johnson can be classified as an unmovable contract now so a team like the Pens can realistically demand salary retention or other assets to take it on if we were to acquire it.

Agreed, but not sure how they make the cap room for that. Hopefully JR has something up his sleeve. I think he has 1-2 more trades to make in the next couple days. I call bs on him liking the current 3rd line/thinking he’s done making moves.
- abasin

If we could land Hoffman I’d consider trading Petterson. I like Petterson, but LD appears to be one of the deepest positions on the team.

I’d try to get at least one more year out of that deal though, 2 x $4 mil AAV. I feel like Matheson and Marino could make a solid second pairing, and we could fill out the 3LD spot with either Rikki or POJ. If Matheson struggles maybe POJ can eventually move up to 2LD.

A lot of hypotheticals, but I think it at least has the potential to work.

@Rino, actually let me just back up and explain myself from a different angle.

1) TJ is interesting, but not worth his contract as proven by no team taking him. Tampa must add a sweetener to move him.

2) ZAR is not untradable. Yet he's a useful player on a cheap deal so if you include him Tampa needs to add more. They probably don't, so his inclusion isn't worth it since if you absolutely needed to dump him, you could get an actual return elsewhere.

3) Your only sweetener for taking TJ's contract and ZAR was they take Sceviour, a mostly buriable one year contract. It's not nearly enough. And it's 3, not 2, that's the bigger mistake to me. If we target TJ, we should be getting something with him, probably a reduction in cap space, if not that a really good draft, maybe even a 1st, because it's 4 years at 5M we're adding and they are desperate.

Liking or not liking Johnson isn’t the point of what Tojo was saying though. The point is that Johnson can be classified as an unmovable contract now so a team like the Pens can realistically demand salary retention or other assets to take it on if we were to acquire it.
- Victoro311

Yep, that's it. Johnson has some interest to me, but not at that contract. But if Tampa adds I can be in.

@Rino, actually let me just back up and explain myself from a different angle.

1) TJ is interesting, but not worth his contract as proven by no team taking him. Tampa must add a sweetener to move him.

2) ZAR is not untradable. Yet he's a useful player on a cheap deal so if you include him Tampa needs to add more. They probably don't, so his inclusion isn't worth it since if you absolutely needed to dump him, you could get an actual return elsewhere.

3) Your only sweetener for taking TJ's contract and ZAR was they take Sceviour, a mostly buriable one year contract. It's not nearly enough. And it's 3, not 2, that's the bigger mistake to me. If we target TJ, we should be getting something with him, probably a reduction in cap space, if not that a really good draft, maybe even a 1st, because it's 4 years at 5M we're adding and they are desperate.
- Tojo.

How about TJ for Tanev... straight up? (frank), I'll keep 500K of Tanev.

They can expose him at the draft, who cares

How about TJ for Tanev... straight up? (frank), I'll keep 500K of Tanev.

They can expose him at the draft, who cares
- Guile

Interesting in the sense Tampa could probably then move Tanev easily if they retained 1 million, which they probably couldn't do with just retaining 1 million on Johnson

Only issue is a team retaining on Tanev for 5 years. You can only retain on 2 players at a time and that can box you in on trades in the future

It's probably and either/or for them

How about TJ for Tanev... straight up? (frank), I'll keep 500K of Tanev.

They can expose him at the draft, who cares
- Guile

I definitely wouldn’t retain on Tanev in this trade. Tanev is overpaid but useful. Johnson is overpaid but useful. Johnson’s contract is the harder one to handle and TB is the one bent over a barrel. For as poor as our cap situation is, we don’t have RFAs to sign or roster spots to fill. The leverage would be ours.

I get that Hornqvist isn't in any plans moving forward. What I don't get is why is everyone wanting to now get 30 year old players who are making $5M to replace him.

If it was so easy to get $5M players to sign for $2M - $3M no team would be in the crunch they are in now.

I'm ok passing on TJ. He sucks at defense, I question how good of a center he is, and he is now on the wrong side of 30. Maybe if they retain $2M.

Some good names going for cheap so far and some players the Pens could have used. Not huge misses but the pool is dwindling.

My greatest fear is that JR thinks Jankowski and ERod are solid 3C and 3RW material. They were both healthy scratches last year for a reason.

Hornqvist would have been a boat anchor on the 3rd line.

That’s where he would have played, 3rd line

Team had no use for him anymore
- RoloTahmasee

Agree on this. I wouldn’t want to pay a 34 yo $5.3M for the next 4 years to play 3rd line minutes and knowing Crosby and Malkin would rather not play with him on their lines.

Interesting in the sense Tampa could probably then move Tanev easily if they retained 1 million, which they probably couldn't do with just retaining 1 million on Johnson

Only issue is a team retaining on Tanev for 5 years. You can only retain on 2 players at a time and that can box you in on trades in the future

It's probably and either/or for them
- TheGame316

Well, Bjug is only being retained for 1 year... I'd like to think we won't NEED to retain on 3 players in a single year. The 500K is a super minor amount, even for five years.

I definitely wouldn’t retain on Tanev in this trade. Tanev is overpaid but useful. Johnson is overpaid but useful. Johnson’s contract is the harder one to handle and TB is the one bent over a barrel. For as poor as our cap situation is, we don’t have RFAs to sign or roster spots to fill. The leverage would be ours.
- Victoro311

Oh, I get this... but even TB being pretty boned... a trade straight up is only 1.5 mil in savings. If they are okay with that and just going to pay Seattle to take Tanev after one year, then maybe we throw a low pick at them and call it a day.

I get Johnson is a defensive liability... and that is why you give him the better two way wingers and make a very strong 3rd line around him.


Regardless, just an alternative idea to throw out instead of the moving Scevious and ZAR (still wont Scev moved after the signings, he is just really not needed now). And with the term on both being long... I think its not stupidly unreasonable for a Tanev trade for once.

I get that Hornqvist isn't in any plans moving forward. What I don't get is why is everyone wanting to now get 30 year old players who are making $5M to replace him.

If it was so easy to get $5M players to sign for $2M - $3M no team would be in the crunch they are in now.
- Thunderbolt

Horny... 30+ very physical player who was becoming more slow and broken down by the week... vs Johnson... still has some speed and isn't beat to poop.

I'm ok passing on TJ. He sucks at defense, I question how good of a center he is, and he is now on the wrong side of 30. Maybe if they retain $2M.

Some good names going for cheap so far and some players the Pens could have used. Not huge misses but the pool is dwindling.

My greatest fear is that JR thinks Jankowski and ERod are solid 3C and 3RW material. They were both healthy scratches last year for a reason.
- Hockey66

Disturbing for sure. So many good guys going for cheap prices. Sure we don’t have many roster spots but we could’ve added a couple guys (a D and a Winger).

Looks like Pietrangelo headed to VGK. There goes that dream.

Looks like Pietrangelo headed to VGK. There goes that dream.
- Hockey66

Anyone besides EK reporting that? Because its not real if so

Anyone besides EK reporting that? Because its not real if so
- Guile

Word has it AP was in Vegas looking at schools today

Horny... 30+ very physical player who was becoming more slow and broken down by the week... vs Johnson... still has some speed and isn't beat to poop.
- Guile

Speed was never part of Hornqvist's game, so slowing down just doesn't matter. Johnson slowing down does, he scored 14 goals on an offensive juggernaut. What makes anyone think he isn't going to continue to regress.

Johnson is more enticing at 50% value. Hell most players are. It just isn't happening. Besides I would still take Hornqvist at 50% over Johnson at 50% value. On a side note, we will all be whining about the PP this year unless in the unlikely scenario one of the new guys this year steps up.