I think your guess is right. And that's reasonable, but it doesn't make the return any less disappointing. That's really the only point I'm making. Trading Teravainen to move Bickell or Leddy to keep Oduya were understandable too but it didn't make them any less disappointing, you know?

Bowman might even see more merit to Zadorov. I've not be that fond of his defense acquisitions or signings in recent year, though some have worked out better here or elsewhere (Murphy, Kempny) while others were just bad (Rundblad, Manning, Davidson, the ghost of Scuderi).
- L_B_R

I wonder if the Hawks started negotiating a new contract for Saad and as they were in the process they remembered why they traded Saad the 1st time and said you know what (frank) this, and away he went.

I really don't understand what the big deal is. The team has to do what they think is best for the team. Last time i checked Toews, Kane, Keith or Seabrook are not in the front office.

Can you imagine every team asking permission to make a move, this isn't the NBA where 2 to 3 players essentially can determine if you are a championship team.
- BetweenTheDots

It's not about getting permission. Team management doesn't need to do that in any league. Rather, it's letting the players know what direction the team is headed and what they might expect coming up. That's it.

The fact that there is a trend of current and former players saying that they've felt blindsided indicates some breakdown in communication from management.

Whether or not there is truly a breakdown is another thing because maybe management did inform them but the players either ignored the messages or misinterpreted what was being relayed to them.

There's alway what is actually communicated and heard versus what was perceived. That disconnect can mean the world of difference and sometimes that's the players' fault.

Well Crosby is superstitious, he's got a thing about the number 87, i think he was born 8/7/1987, wears number 87, salary cap number $8.7 per year for 12 years
- BetweenTheDots

Also it's not cap hit that should be compared - it's cap share aka the % of the cap the player took up at signing. Especially when comparing to contracts signed under a different CBA like Crosby or Ovechkin.

Crosby, Malkin, Kane, and Toews all signed at about 15% of the cap. Ovechkin, even though his cap hit is lower than Toews/Kane, had an almost 4% larger cap share at the time of signing at 19%. Getzlaf, Perry, Tavares, Jamie Benn all of whom weren't as successful but still faces of their franchise were signed at around 13-14%.

And since those big forward stars signed, some of new superstars have been at or higher cap shares like Matthews 15% and McDavid is at 17% or in that slightly lower group with Eichel at 13%.

So it's pretty much the norm to sign around the cap share that Toews/Kane did. It just sucks the cap didn't go up as expected.

I wonder if the Hawks started negotiating a new contract for Saad and as they were in the process they remembered why they traded Saad the 1st time and said you know what (frank) this, and away he went.
- BetweenTheDots

That would be sad if true if only because it suggests they're very slow when it comes to player evaluations and that the timing is because of that shortcoming.

Though iirc the reason they traded Saad the first time is because they were scared of an offer sheet and didn't get full value then either (and I say that as someone who liked Anisimov a lot).

That would be sad if true if only because it suggests they're very slow when it comes to player evaluations and that the timing is because of that shortcoming.

Though iirc the reason they traded Saad the first time is because they were scared of an offer sheet and didn't get full value then either (and I say that as someone who liked Anisimov a lot).
- L_B_R

Stan doesn’t negotiate well - he gives up quickly if he doesn’t get his number early - and either gives in, or moves the player out.

Maybe he shaves some off of the Kane and Toews deals, a year or two off of the Seabrook term, some money off of the Kubalik contract.

I don’t see good negotiating skills, i see impatience with the process, maybe conflict avoidance.

Maybe he’s that way in trading, too - saying yes before really negotiating a better deal.

At least - that’s what it seems like to me.

Per David Pagnotta, the Hawks are looking for a middle-six forward.
- TommyHawk

KAHUN!!!!

It's not about getting permission. Team management doesn't need to do that in any league. Rather, it's letting the players know what direction the team is headed and what they might expect coming up. That's it.

The fact that there is a trend of current and former players saying that they've felt blindsided indicates some breakdown in communication from management.

Whether or not there is truly a breakdown is another thing because maybe management did inform them but the players either ignored the messages or misinterpreted what was being relayed to them.

There's alway what is actually communicated and heard versus what was perceived. That disconnect can mean the world of difference and sometimes that's the players' fault.
- Theo Fox

I also think the Athletic is trying to sell subscriptions as well. But i believe something happened in the window between the offer that was made to Corey and then the Hawks just pulling it off the table completely and trading Saad.

Stan doesn’t negotiate well - he gives up quickly if he doesn’t get his number early - and either gives in, or moves the player out.

Maybe he shaves some off of the Kane and Toews deals, a year or two off of the Seabrook term, some money off of the Kubalik contract.

I don’t see good negotiating skills, i see impatience with the process, maybe conflict avoidance.

Maybe he’s that way in trading, too - saying yes before really negotiating a better deal.

At least - that’s what it seems like to me.
- StLBravesFan

They teach negotiating in MBA School.

I also think the Athletic is trying to sell subscriptions as well. But i believe something happened in the window between the offer that was made to Corey and then the Hawks just pulling it off the table completely and trading Saad.
- BetweenTheDots

After working in business for over 30 years I get the feeling Rocky pivoted.

I appreciate your view. I am dumbfounded by the trade also.. in my eyes Saad has so many flaws to be considered a top 6. His hockey IQ is below average IMO, he doesn’t see the ice well. He might be our best board winger, but he gets pushed around quite a bit. The most frustrating thing to me (and ADB btw) is I don’t think he completed one tape to tape pass from the defensive zone all year.
- LAHawk

I see it like you see it.

Stan doesn’t negotiate well - he gives up quickly if he doesn’t get his number early - and either gives in, or moves the player out.

Maybe he shaves some off of the Kane and Toews deals, a year or two off of the Seabrook term, some money off of the Kubalik contract.

I don’t see good negotiating skills, i see impatience with the process, maybe conflict avoidance.

Maybe he’s that way in trading, too - saying yes before really negotiating a better deal.

At least - that’s what it seems like to me.
- StLBravesFan

This is probably true. It explains why he has issues with keeping his own 1st round or high end players past their ELC (beyond the ones the cap issues impacted).

Also it's not cap hit that should be compared - it's cap share aka the % of the cap the player took up at signing. Especially when comparing to contracts signed under a different CBA like Crosby or Ovechkin.

Crosby, Malkin, Kane, and Toews all signed at about 15% of the cap. Ovechkin, even though his cap hit is lower than Toews/Kane, had an almost 4% larger cap share at the time of signing at 19%. Getzlaf, Perry, Tavares, Jamie Benn all of whom weren't as successful but still faces of their franchise were signed at around 13-14%.

And since those big forward stars signed, some of new superstars have been at or higher cap shares like Matthews 15% and McDavid is at 17% or in that slightly lower group with Eichel at 13%.

So it's pretty much the norm to sign around the cap share that Toews/Kane did. It just sucks the cap didn't go up as expected.
- L_B_R

That's an excellent point about when the deals were signed and their relationship to cap share percentage

I see it like you see it.
- 6628

You both need glasses. Saad for Zadorov with salary retained is a net loss.

You both need glasses. Saad for Zadorov with salary retained is a net loss.
- Ogilthorpe2

Common Ogi take off your Russian biased glasses, hahaha

I see it like you see it.
- 6628

Not only that, but Zadorov > more important for team success than the < Saad at least a few of us accurately portray

I also think the Athletic is trying to sell subscriptions as well. But i believe something happened in the window between the offer that was made to Corey and then the Hawks just pulling it off the table completely and trading Saad.
- BetweenTheDots

Thinking the same thing, too. Guessing that's par for the course that we all just see the end results plus any preceding rumors then fill in the blanks, wrongfully or rightfully.

You both need glasses. Saad for Zadorov with salary retained is a net loss.
- Ogilthorpe2

the money angle, I agree. But I believe you will find Zadorov is much needed and helps balance the styles on defense. Not only that, but if Murphy eventually gets traded, you are looking at Carlsson and Zadorov the only real dmen who record hits. Seabrook if he plays too which is probably 6th 7th slot.

You see Zadorov play despite on 3rd pair he is needed. We shall see, eh.

There is also the concern that Saad may not be protected for The Expansion Draft. If you read 6628 blog entry and another one about Saad (both just a bit above this blog), you will gain more reasons to understand why Saad was dealt.

Per David Pagnotta, the Hawks are looking for a middle-six forward.
- TommyHawk

I wonder why?

the money angle, I agree. But I believevyou will find Zadorov is much needed and helps balance the styles on defense. Not only that, but if Murphy eventually gets traded, you are looking at Carlsson and Zadorov the only real dmen who record hits. Seabrook if he plays too which is probably 6th 7th slot.

You see Zadorov play despite on 3rd pair he is needed. We shall see, eh.

There is also the concern that Saad may not be protected for The Expansion Draft. If you read 6628 blog entry and another one about Saad (both just a bit above this blog), you will gain more reasons to understand why Saad was dealt.
- jhawk59

No, I will never understand why a top 6 winger whose value goes way beyond what you see in a box score was traded (with salary retained mind you) for a bottom pairing defenseman.

It’s a poop trade no matter how I look at it.

No, I will never understand why a top 6 winger whose value goes way beyond what you see in a box score was traded (with salary retained mind you) for a bottom pairing defenseman.

It’s a poop trade no matter how I look at it.
- Ogilthorpe2

In all seriousness i agree with you, it's like last year's trade of AA for Smith

You both need glasses. Saad for Zadorov with salary retained is a net loss.
- Ogilthorpe2

I said the trade dumbfounded me. I still think Saad for what he brings is overpaid for what he provides, but what he provides is still worth more than Zadorov.

[quote=Theo Fox]It's not about getting permission. Team management doesn't need to do that in any league. Rather, it's letting the players know what direction the team is headed and what they might expect coming up. That's it.

The fact that there is a trend of current and former players saying that they've felt blindsided indicates some breakdown in communication from management.

Whether or not there is truly a breakdown is another thing because maybe management did inform them but the players either ignored the messages or misinterpreted what was being relayed to them.

There's alway what is actually communicated and heard versus what was perceived. That disconnect can mean the world of difference and sometimes that's the players' fault. =quote]

I would not be surprised to have articles in the next few days quoting Toews, Kane, Keith, and/or Seabs with a much different tone than today's article. It may take them a little time to process the moves. I am imagine Stan has already talked to them.The timing might not have been perfect, but they will all say the right things. Much ado about nothing.

I said the trade dumbfounded me. I still think Saad for what he brings is overpaid for what he provides, but what he provides is still worth more than Zadorov.
- LAHawk

My bad. I misunderstood what you were saying.

KAHUN!!!!
- DarthKane

Been saying Kahun is coming back.

It's happening. Get ready.

Per David Pagnotta, the Hawks are looking for a middle-six forward.
- TommyHawk

What does everybody think about Andreas Athanasiou as a FA target for the Hawks and what do you think he'd cost?