Saad's first year back is now 3 seasons ago, though - he's had two near 50 points projected seasons with excellent two-way play typically facing the highest quality of competition. Saad-Toews were perfectly fine once they paired them with someone who could playmake and Saad hasn't ever had issues with Kane over the years objectively. His best line ended up being Anisimov-Kahun season before last season but he was really strong with Kubalik-Toews and Strome/Dach-Kane. Shooter-playmakers should alway be combos imo, even volume shooters like Saad.

Again, even if you don't think he's worth his cap hit, his actual play is still top 6 and so the return is disappointing. I don't dislike Zadorov as a bottom pairing d-man but it shouldn't take a top 6 forward to get that.

I'd be more interested in Zadorov if his hits did anything useful like lead to puck possession / recovery or points or kept him in the play, but they don't. Hits are a skill and quantity isn't as important as quality, though there are def players who have quality hits often (Seabrook, Hjammer, Buff in their primes). I'd love a d-man who knew how to hit well but so far Zadorov has been subpar with his hitting.
- L_B_R

I'm not going to single out Saad only because in general chicago struggled to have any consistency or for that matter sustainable offensive pressure.

What we thought or assumed should have been the return might not be how the market now is set up.

Saad is 27nyears old a decent 2 way forward but he hasn't shown enough consistency to bring back a solid return.

I'm holding my opinion on Zadorov only because I'm rooting for him to workout and I wanted to see him come to Chicago last year when his. Name was floated as being tradeable.

Rick quoted me so I will respond: I agree with much of what you said in your first three paragraphs - Stan (and other GMs) should be informing core players about the evaluation of the talent (in a macro sense) and the coming direction of the team. They certainly shouldn’t disclose determinations about individual players.

Although it wouldn’t be terrible to ask - at the EOS exit interviews - for Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford for their opinion of the direction the team should be taking - without committing to act on those opinions. Players aren’t stupid, certainly about hockey things - some good suggestions or confirmations could come from them.
- StLBravesFan

Crawford would be glad Zadorov acquired and Special K gone. Maybe someone would have told Bowman that Toews is not the same full game stud he once was. And the team desperately needs more toughness. Someone to play with Kane. And stop letting players like Kane determine how to run the Pp.

I really think this is way overblown, Toews is a big boy and has plenty of money to see a therapist about the direction the team is going in. If they are really upset about it i would make sure they have plenty of tissue boxes at their lockers. But honestly it's got to be upsetting realizing that fat contract you signed has consequences. Fwiw i believe when Toews changed his diet and his work out routine he didn't notify the team or when he was jumping off the rocks into the lake.
- BetweenTheDots

BetweenTheDots excellent point. I remember everyone saying when toews and kane inked those contracts this would hurt chicago and they both knew fully well their contracts while they earned every penny , they where also being the 2 highest paid players in hockey above malkin and Crosby.

Sure enough their contracts and seabrooks decline and awful contract has been the biggest problem for this team.

I say if they arent happy request a trade

Which is why the timing is bad. I feel like that's often the issue with some of Bowman's trades - Leddy, Bickell, Saad part 1, Panarin. It happens to the best of the GMs, it's just disappointing. I guess we'll have to see what the TDL brings this next year to see if rental prices will be dramatically different.


No, but why not then trade Saad before his NMC kicked in? The timing is definitely a part of the problem with the trade and return.
- L_B_R

I also find the timing of all this odd/bad. I don’t understand why StanBo supposedly didn’t want to “rebuild” until after the draft passes and then right before free agency starts. If you were planning to rebuild then, why wouldn’t you try to gain picks before the draft or even for next draft. I like Zadorov as a player....but at 25 yrs old already....this doesn’t fit into the rebuild window; unless they are planning to flip him.

I feel like Stan is setting up to do something off the radar. Maybe, have a Russian on the team to help offer sheet Sergachev (red font, but yet not). Tampa, NYI, and Vegas in trouble with cap, hoping he can take advantage....I’m going to wait it all out and then judge how StanBo does. Right now, not a fan of the move...even though I like Zadorov, would have preferred picks/prospects (like most have stated).

Per David Pagnotta, the Hawks are looking for a middle-six forward.

While everyone in chicago is grateful for the championship hockey and 3 cups we seen. Speaking for myself only rocky is to blame for allowing this to happen ultimately. After the 14/15 season Seabrook was expendable based on age and chicago cap issues . But surely after 16/17 season that was the time to blow things up and rebuild the right way.


New York sure they haven't won a cup since 94 and only appeared in the finals once but if their a fun young team again thats highly competitive if I was a rangers fan im happy.

I'm not going to watch the Hawks or go to a game and see garbage hockey knowing it lacks talent and has no chance of winning a cup or playoff round.


Toews , kane , Seabrook and Keith might be upset but its a business and from my standpoint they can easily waive their nmc and move on. Their being paid so either deal with it and respect the simple fact that the organization went out of its way to try and appease them by winning and it failed now reality set in time to rebuild
- Taylorst1

Glad to hear it...it's kind of the point, Way to use your 20/20 hindsight glasses on the rest.

Especially dealing with Joe Sakic. If Rocky ever wants to replace Stan Joe is the guy to go buy.
- rpeters01

Sakic bends over whoever he trades with. Did the Leafs and Hawks.

Who said that? I didn't. All I said was a first plus at the TDL, but never went into specifics or teams to target.
- HawkintheD

I never (frank)ing said you were the one that said it so shut up already about it. It was another poster

Per David Pagnotta, the Hawks are looking for a middle-six forward.
- TommyHawk

Saad is available. Sakic wants Dach and Hawks #1 pick next year. Stan thinking hard on it, decision in the morning.

I also find the timing of all this odd/bad. I don’t understand why StanBo supposedly didn’t want to “rebuild” until after the draft passes and then right before free agency starts. If you were planning to rebuild then, why wouldn’t you try to gain picks before the draft or even for next draft. I like Zadorov as a player....but at 25 yrs old already....this doesn’t fit into the rebuild window; unless they are planning to flip him.

I feel like Stan is setting up to do something off the radar. Maybe, have a Russian on the team to help offer sheet Sergachev (red font, but yet not). Tampa, NYI, and Vegas in trouble with cap, hoping he can take advantage....I’m going to wait it all out and then judge how StanBo does. Right now, not a fan of the move...even though I like Zadorov, would have preferred picks/prospects (like most have stated).
- DrewDawg

I've said it before I think Rocky only recently changed course.

Glad to hear it...it's kind of the point, Way to use your 20/20 hindsight glasses on the rest.
- HawkintheD

Thanks HawkintheD, Yes 20/20 hindsight only rehashes the shoulda would and could. I'm more frustrated with Rocky for allowing this train wreck to perpetually continue for this long with no accountability.

I never (frank)ing said you were the one that said it so shut up already about it. It was another poster
- GPHawksfan

Was just asking but to others points you really are a (frank)ing Masengil.

I've said it before I think Rocky only recently changed course.
- rpeters01

Your probably right. Although I then question rockys knowledge or his ability to put his loyalty aside and should have woken up sooner to fix this ship

I really don't understand what the big deal is. The team has to do what they think is best for the team. Last time i checked Toews, Kane, Keith or Seabrook are not in the front office.

Can you imagine every team asking permission to make a move, this isn't the NBA where 2 to 3 players essentially can determine if you are a championship team.
- BetweenTheDots

To be fair to the rest of them, I've only seen something about Toews whining about it.

Excellent post and reasoning in your argument.

Surely Stan was equipped with all of the information you looked at. So what do you think the real reason the trade was made now when he could have waited for a better deal to pop up?

My guess - lots of pressure from the top of the house to cut costs as much and as quickly as possible. Its almost always about the money.
- RickJ

I think your guess is right. And that's reasonable, but it doesn't make the return any less disappointing. That's really the only point I'm making. Trading Teravainen to move Bickell or Leddy to keep Oduya were understandable too but it didn't make them any less disappointing, you know?

Bowman might even see more merit to Zadorov. I've not be that fond of his defense acquisitions or signings in recent year, though some have worked out better here or elsewhere (Murphy, Kempny) while others were just bad (Rundblad, Manning, Davidson, the ghost of Scuderi).

Your probably right. Although I then question rockys knowledge or his ability to put his loyalty aside and should have woken up sooner to fix this ship
- Taylorst1

It was just finalized the season won't start until January. Perhaps, a short season saves money less games to pay for without fans? In baseball they (owners) figured out less games was better. Either way, more games or less, no matter which is better the losses will be huge. AHL surviving, hmm IDK?

I think your guess is right. And that's reasonable, but it doesn't make the return any less disappointing. That's really the only point I'm making. Trading Teravainen to move Bickell or Leddy to keep Oduya were understandable too but it didn't make them any less disappointing, you know?

Bowman might even see more merit to Zadorov. I've not be that fond of his defense acquisitions or signings in recent year, though some have worked out better here or elsewhere (Murphy, Kempny) while others were just bad (Rundblad, Manning, Davidson, the ghost of Scuderi).
- L_B_R

What she said.

Edit to add, that Russians are almost always undesirable as well.

To be fair to the rest of them, I've only seen something about Toews whining about it.
- vabeachbear

Well someone mentioned share their decision making with the core, but you are right he's the only one I've heard say anything. He'll get over it and sometimes it's not fair that someone has a Mike in front of them especially if they are trying to stay off of electronics and is blindsided by the news.

I think your guess is right. And that's reasonable, but it doesn't make the return any less disappointing. That's really the only point I'm making. Trading Teravainen to move Bickell or Leddy to keep Oduya were understandable too but it didn't make them any less disappointing, you know?

Bowman might even see more merit to Zadorov. I've not be that fond of his defense acquisitions or signings in recent year, though some have worked out better here or elsewhere (Murphy, Kempny) while others were just bad (Rundblad, Manning, Davidson, the ghost of Scuderi).
- L_B_R

Cant think of very many trades I have liked.

Have to think the other GM's around the league know Stan as somebody who overpays in contract negotiations for players he wants to keep and undervalues his player assets when he is in trade negotiations.

What she said.

Edit to add, that Russians are almost always undesirable as well.
- Ogilthorpe2

Stan got a report from Barr Zad is ok.

Which is why the timing is bad. I feel like that's often the issue with some of Bowman's trades - Leddy, Bickell, Saad part 1, Panarin. It happens to the best of the GMs, it's just disappointing. I guess we'll have to see what the TDL brings this next year to see if rental prices will be dramatically different.


No, but why not then trade Saad before his NMC kicked in? The timing is definitely a part of the problem with the trade and return.
- L_B_R

I appreciate your view. I am dumbfounded by the trade also.. in my eyes Saad has so many flaws to be considered a top 6. His hockey IQ is below average IMO, he doesn’t see the ice well. He might be our best board winger, but he gets pushed around quite a bit. The most frustrating thing to me (and ADB btw) is I don’t think he completed one tape to tape pass from the defensive zone all year.

I appreciate your view. I am dumbfounded by the trade also.. in my eyes Saad has so many flaws to be considered a top 6. His hockey IQ is below average IMO, he doesn’t see the ice well. He might be our best board winger, but he gets pushed around quite a bit. The most frustrating thing to me (and ADB btw) is I don’t think he completed one tape to tape pass from the defensive zone all year.
- LAHawk

Oh, weird, tracking data shows that Saad had really good DZ and NZ passing rates this year. His OZ passing was less good but then he's always been better in transition than in-OZ. His shot assist rate actually did take a hit this season but imo part of that was linemates (Kampf not receiving well, Kane/Strome/Dach passing more, etc.) Never been his strength but it's not of a lot of shooter - Kubalik is in the 31st percentile for shot assists which is where like Ovechkin is every season too.

His controlled exits success was in 86th percentile, slightly down from the 90th percentile the year before. And the slight drop is 1) likely due to him increasing how much he did (in 70%) and 2) other players doing better than him doing worse.



The most frustrating to me about Saad was his finishing ability. He made up for it with his volume shooting but it did make him more reliant on being with a playmaker than some others. But overall, his production and well-roundedness still do put him firmly as a top 6 player. Not anywhere near the top offensively or anything but good enough and brought other things necessary for the role.

BetweenTheDots excellent point. I remember everyone saying when toews and kane inked those contracts this would hurt chicago and they both knew fully well their contracts while they earned every penny , they where also being the 2 highest paid players in hockey above malkin and Crosby.

Sure enough their contracts and seabrooks decline and awful contract has been the biggest problem for this team.

I say if they arent happy request a trade
- Taylorst1

Well Crosby is superstitious, he's got a thing about the number 87, i think he was born 8/7/1987, wears number 87, salary cap number $8.7 per year for 12 years

I was just curious how the a p recapture penalty works if he gets traded then retires, the other poster said chicago is , I thought both teams where as to whom feels the brunt of that I assume chicago.


Toews , keith amd kane I'm not sure their is a market or a return that benefits chicago the way in normal times we would see . Do you concur
- Taylorst1

I think there would be a market for Toews, Kane, and Keith. Whether the return is favorable is another question. It also depends on who defines what a favorable return is as we can see from yesterday's Saad trade.

I never (frank)ing said you were the one that said it so shut up already about it. It was another poster
- GPHawksfan

Like clockwork here you are talking poop to another poster. LOL

I just wanna know would you still have this tone if you were in person and no longer hiding behind a keyboard...