I mean the virus also didn't help as now it has changed the cap landscape. The cap was supposed to keep increasing. I actually don't have much issue with there cap as they are not the only team in that situation. What playoff team can you look at and say they are in great shape cap wise? All these teams are going to be making deals to try and move money. Only the bottom dwellers rebuilding have space.
- J35Bacher

Colorado is in incredible shape

playoff was definitely disappointing, but besides hayes and hart, there weren't many people I would say even had a decent playoff.

konecny's regular season was encouraging though. need to hope he can keep doing that going forward.
- Ftown19125

I thought our young defensemen were very good. I thought Hayes started strong and ended strong but an average middle.

A lot more is the answer. Laine is averaging .45 goals per game in his career. Konecny is averaging .27 goals per game. It's averages out to about 15 goals per season, that is a ton.

Konecny has also played 22 playoff games, and he's got one goal so far. Small sample size, but that is pretty feeble.
- PLindbergh31

Laine is averaging 34 goals per year over his career. He has averaged 29 over the last two seasons. Konecny has averaged 24 over the last two years. Judging from recent output they are very close in terms of goals. Laine scored 80 goals in year 1 and 2. I am not paying for that player who may or may not show up again in the future. If I am guaranteed 40 goal Laine I am all in. He is not that player right now.

Konecny's output in the playoffs this year was disappointing. No other way to say it.

I just think it is silly to include Konecny in a deal for Laine. Why not have both?

Higher ceiling and lower floor too perhaps (because of rumors of temperament)? Then there is the issue of his skating, and of course what we would have to give up.

Imo, there is too much risk here. If we had everything set and just needed one expensive piece, then sure. But the time is not right. We are not one high end goal scorer away from relevance. I understand others may disagree with me about how close we are. I have already stated my views.
- PT21

I’d give up anyone not named Carter Hart, Ivan Provorov and Sean Couturier for Patrick Laine.

Laine is averaging 34 goals per year over his career. He has averaged 29 over the last two seasons. Konecny has averaged 24 over the last two years. Judging from recent output they are very close in terms of goals. Laine scored 80 goals in year 1 and 2. I am not paying for that player who may or may not show up again in the future. If I am guaranteed 40 goal Laine I am all in. He is not that player right now.

Konecny's output in the playoffs this year was disappointing. No other way to say it.

I just think it is silly to include Konecny in a deal for Laine. Why not have both?
- mickel25

it depends on what the + would be in a trade for Laine. If Konecny was part of a trade package for Laine you have to consider it. I think it's safe to say Laine is a legit sniper at a very young age. He's something the Flyers have lacked for a long time now.

Colorado is in incredible shape
- Tfaehner

Landeskog is a UFA next year
Maker is RFA next year

So they will have some people to pay. They are in a nice place. They lucked out to have MacKinnon godly underpaid.

I think JVR is the only contract that is "bad" in my opinion. I think Hayes last year was pretty close to necessary with Patrick's future unclear.

JVR is a winger and the Flyers had already invested $16mil+ in two wingers. They could have filled out the roster better by bringing a few wingers on shorter term contracts for the cost of JVR.

I think Hayes probably gets paid too much based on output but he is really important to this team. Everyone else's contract I am fine with really.
- mickel25

fair enough. No one is grossly overpaid i dont believe

They only have 13 players signed though. So ten more contracts to cover $23mil. They will have some space but not a ton. Let's see what they do with the space before we start predicting there future.
- mickel25

whoa whoa whoa, let's not look at all the facts.

Plus the guy plays too much fortnite
- arichardson22

This made me giggle.

Like I said previously, you can judge others all you want. Politics should be kept off of Bill's thread, per his numerous requests. It's already known that you think you are better than others. I'll repeat the same challenge. Start a thread in the Misc. forum and I'll meet you there and debate you on any topic you want concerning politics or politicians. Disruption is fantastic in today's political climate.
- MJL

Would be nice to include other sports in the banned list.

Not trying to start trouble here, but I do like to read the opinions and thoughts of others, not just for the content itself, but for the insights on the poster that they provide. I rarely comment on them though as I don't want to get into a debate on this forum.
- Scoob

I have to agree. It's interesting to see how people's views on different topics converge. Way more interesting than highjacking the thread with other sports.

ok, by your circular semantic argument you're not talking politics. stop talking about things that have nothing to do about hockey. i have a similar disdain for the sandwich or music discussion. talk hockey here or go away.
- twotoekenn

A famous poem comes to mind. It is too long for modern times and for a sports group, so I will shorten it. And I am certainly not claiming equivalency, and I know this is dramatic, but the general principle stands.

The Nobel Laureate poet Pablo Neruda was once asked why his poetry was not pretty.

I'M EXPLAINING A FEW THINGS

You are going to ask: and where are the lilacs?
and the poppy-petalled metaphysics ?
and the rain repeatedly spattering
its words and drilling them full
of apertures and birds?

I’ll tell you all the news.

I lived in a suburb,
a suburb of Madrid, with bells,
and clocks and trees.
..
And one morning all that was burning

...
Face to face with you I have seen the blood
of Spain tower like a tide
to drown you in one wave
of pride and knives!

Treacherous
generals:
see my dead house,
look at broken Spain:

from every house burning metal flows
instead of flowers,
from every socket of Spain
Spain emerges
and from every dead child a rifle with eyes,

And you will ask: why doesn’t his poetry
speak of dreams and leaves
and the great volcanoes of his native land?

Come and see the blood in the streets.
Come and see
the blood in the streets.
Come and see the blood
in the streets!

In summary sir, I care very little for your disdain.

New blob.

Landeskog is a UFA next year
Maker is RFA next year

So they will have some people to pay. They are in a nice place. They lucked out to have MacKinnon godly underpaid.
- J35Bacher

Mackinnon contract 3 years left is their 3 year window to go all out for a title. They also have the advantage of having most of their picks. They are someone who should go get that extra people needed to win it all.

A famous poem comes to mind. It is too long for modern times and for a sports group, so I will shorten it. And I am certainly not claiming equivalency, and I know this is dramatic, but the general principle stands.

The Nobel Laureate poet Pablo Neruda was once asked why his poetry was not pretty.

I'M EXPLAINING A FEW THINGS

You are going to ask: and where are the lilacs?
and the poppy-petalled metaphysics ?
and the rain repeatedly spattering
its words and drilling them full
of apertures and birds?

I’ll tell you all the news.

I lived in a suburb,
a suburb of Madrid, with bells,
and clocks and trees.
..
And one morning all that was burning

...
Face to face with you I have seen the blood
of Spain tower like a tide
to drown you in one wave
of pride and knives!

Treacherous
generals:
see my dead house,
look at broken Spain:

from every house burning metal flows
instead of flowers,
from every socket of Spain
Spain emerges
and from every dead child a rifle with eyes,

And you will ask: why doesn’t his poetry
speak of dreams and leaves
and the great volcanoes of his native land?

Come and see the blood in the streets.
Come and see
the blood in the streets.
Come and see the blood
in the streets!

In summary sir, I care very little for your disdain.

New blob.
- PT21

Dude why are all your posts a franking novel........

Laine's career stat line

2017-36G-28A 64P
2018-44G-26A 70P
2019-30G-20A 50P
2020-28G-35A 63P

Konecny career stat line

2017-11G-17A 28P
2018-24G-23A 47P
2019-24G-25A 49P
2020-24G-37A 61P

Both have played roughly the same amount of games. Konecny has improved in terms of production each year. I think they both are 65-75 point players for most of there careers. Laine will score more goals. But how much more? I would take Laine but not in a deal that includes Konecny.
- mickel25

Agreed

The problem with making trades is that you have to integrate new players into your system which takes time and may not work out. Seems like the teams that mostly stay together over many years win the cup rather than the ones that have a lot of roster churn. If you look at history, teams have a better chance of winning with a stable roster and a new coach - especially a brand new coach!

I mean the virus also didn't help as now it has changed the cap landscape. The cap was supposed to keep increasing. I actually don't have much issue with there cap as they are not the only team in that situation. What playoff team can you look at and say they are in great shape cap wise? All these teams are going to be making deals to try and move money. Only the bottom dwellers rebuilding have space.
- J35Bacher

Many teams are up against the cap which would make having working cap space such an advantage. I'm on record as having been against the buyout of MacDonald and Schlemko to add Braun. That buyout money is a factor in the Flyers cap situation. They may make a move and trade Gostisbehere, which depending on the return could give them some cap space to work with. However you do make a valid point about the pandemic causing an unforeseen flat cap. No GM could predict that.

Many teams are up against the cap which would make having working cap space such an advantage. I'm on record as having been against the buyout of MacDonald and Schlemko to add Braun. That buyout money is a factor in the Flyers cap situation. They may make a move and trade Gostisbehere, which depending on the return could give them some cap space to work with. However you do make a valid point about the pandemic causing an unforeseen flat cap. No GM could predict that.
- MJL

Ghost and jvr are likely cap casualties. Could end up making 1 pick in the top 90 to get rid of jvr contract. And even then with contracts we have coming up in the next 3 years with a 3 year flat cap that doesn't actually give future room for a big acquisition. Each year we will probably have to ship out an aging contract if we seek to bring one in. To your earlier point we are against it in a bad way for an organically grown team.

- hockeylover

Is melted ice cream still ice cream?
- Scoob

No it's simply "Cream." But that was also a short-lived British rock band in the late 1960s. Considered the first supergroup, they made some (frank)ing awesome music: