Most of their elite players have a good part of their production come via the “low calorie” variety.

Dallas’ PK very well may cost them a Stanley Cup.
- Pegullaville

So is it Dallas’s PK or TB’s PP? Or both? Or is Dallas also supposed to go 75% on the PP too? But if they did would we credit DAL PP or criticize TB pk?

So is it Dallas’s PK or TB’s PP? Or both? Or is Dallas also supposed to go 75% on the PP too? But if they did would we credit DAL PP or criticize TB pk?
- sbroads24

It is both.

I doubt you would find many Tampa fans defending their star players whom take up a majority of their cap if their players did not provide value in every facet of the sport.

I also doubt Tampa would be one win away from the Stanley Cup if their special teams sunk them on their route to the position they are today.

Bringing this back to the Buffalo Sabres. They had a PK that directly led to them missing a 24 team playoffs yet they had how much cap space (or future cap space for that matter) tied up in players that provided absolutely negligent value on both the PP and the PK this past season ?

It is both.

I doubt you would find many Tampa fans defending their star players whom take up a majority of their cap if their players did not provide value in every facet of the sport.

I also doubt Tampa would be one win away from the Stanley Cup if their special teams sunk them on their route to the position they are today.

Bringing this back to the Buffalo Sabres. They had a PK that directly led to them missing a 24 team playoffs yet they had how much cap space (or future cap space for that matter) tied up in players that provided absolutely negligent value on both the PP and the PK this past season ?
- Pegullaville

We didn’t have enough good players. Period.

We didn’t have enough good players. Period.
- sbroads24

So our remedy for that is moving a boatload of assets for a 2C whom plays in the Western Conference that is mostly a liability at even strength however is an elite “low calorie” producer ?

Once again not mentioning any names to really get to the summary of my hypothesis.

I have come to the conclusion that special teams production only matters for select individuals and not for others, but in the microcosm of it all special teams does not mean much of anything ?

So our remedy for that is moving a boatload of assets for a 2C whom plays in the Western Conference that is mostly a liability at even strength however is an elite “low calorie” producer ?

Once again not mentioning any names to really get to the summary of my hypothesis.

I have come to the conclusion that special teams production only matters for select individuals and not for others, but in the microcosm of it all special teams does not mean much of anything ?
- Pegullaville

First bolded - that’s a giant stretch. Monahan is very good. He’s not 1C good, but he’s certainly 2C

Second bolded- The entire issue with weighting 5-5 and PP goals/points the same in terms of evaluating players is that the EV goals/points are tougher to get than PP points. This is proven. Same thing with primary points. It doesn’t mean that PP or secondary points “don’t count”. It’s that when that’s the primary mode of production (ala Olofsson or Laine for example) then it creates skepticism.

Let’s be real, who’s more valuable to the Sabres. A guy who mainly scores on the PP with Eichel, or a guy who can provide secondary scoring on a different line while Eichel drives the PP himself anyways?

So our remedy for that is moving a boatload of assets for a 2C whom plays in the Western Conference that is mostly a liability at even strength however is an elite “low calorie” producer ?

Once again not mentioning any names to really get to the summary of my hypothesis.

I have come to the conclusion that special teams production only matters for select individuals and not for others, but in the microcosm of it all special teams does not mean much of anything ?
- Pegullaville

Sabres PP before Olofsson - 16th in the NHL
Sabres PP this season with Olofsson - 20th in the NHL.

Now I dare you to do EV goals pre and post Skinner

Most of their elite players have a good part of their production come via the “low calorie” variety.

Dallas’ PK very well may cost them a Stanley Cup.
- Pegullaville

The fact they're missing a top 5 goalie hurts too. I don't care how well Khudobin is playing.

Good post

I think the professional gm's see ullmark as a 1b/ back up goalie with the value of a will carrier. (Less proven will carrier)

Upl could be 3 years away from 1A 60 games a year guy.

The single most important improvement is goaltending
For me anyway
- Boss34

I might be in the minority here but I don’t think UpL is the savior. I am really worried about the surgeries. Look at all the players that go through those surgeries and nose dive. There are several. I want more options. I am more high on Portillo and he is like 4 or 5 years out at this point

Canada’s housing market to me is essentially just a hub for foreign money laundering.

Couple with the fact that a majority of our GDP comes from immigration and foreign investment only furthers that.

It’s getting ugly here.

My girlfriend and I are looking for properties in south western Ontario in London however even there the average price for a home is $500K.

Pretty tough spot but it is what it is right.
- Pegullaville

I live in one of the cheapest housing markets in the USA. My home is worth double if picked up and moved 200 miles west outside of Chicago.

If the price is right, you have to upgrade, could be the difference from making the playoffs to not, oh wait a second that happened this year.
- Buff36

Are prescription sports goggles in the budget for Hutton? Might be the “lean” move at goalie...

I still don’t think Dallas would’ve gotten by Calgary if not for the injuries to Tkachuk, etc
They’ve played better as the playoffs moved along,
but this was Tampa’s year
The Lightning are pretty clearly the best team
Even doing all this without Stamkos
Pretty impressive imo
- jdfitz77

deep roster

We didn’t have enough good players. Period.
- sbroads24

we got a 36 year old center

baby steps

First bolded - that’s a giant stretch. Monahan is very good. He’s not 1C good, but he’s certainly 2C

Second bolded- The entire issue with weighting 5-5 and PP goals/points the same in terms of evaluating players is that the EV goals/points are tougher to get than PP points. This is proven. Same thing with primary points. It doesn’t mean that PP or secondary points “don’t count”. It’s that when that’s the primary mode of production (ala Olofsson or Laine for example) then it creates skepticism.

Let’s be real, who’s more valuable to the Sabres. A guy who mainly scores on the PP with Eichel, or a guy who can provide secondary scoring on a different line while Eichel drives the PP himself anyways?
- sbroads24

Just bc 1 way of scoring is “harder” than the other,
that doesn’t mean the “harder” way is more valuable

They count the same dude
You’ve been making this dumb argument for years
Time to move on

I love the schizophrenic posts regarding the 2C position over the past 18 months here.
We all knew not having a viable 2C was holding the team back, but some want 1C production at 4C costs.
Larkin would cost too much because he's too good, Trocheck wasn't good enough, Monohan can't play D, Bonino a 3C would be perfect for a year, blah, blah, blah.
Then we hear 2C are never traded, and if they are; back up the Brinks truck to get one

Staal was playing 1C, puting up 55sh pts, provides veteran leadership...the perfect bridge C ... but he's too old. His acquistion cost was exceedingly reasonable and his contract is awesome. They likely could extend him as he wants to play for 2 or 3 years more.

But let's pile on a GREAT 1st move by Adams.

Just bc 1 way of scoring is “harder” than the other,
that doesn’t mean the “harder” way is more valuable

They count the same dude
You’ve been making this dumb argument for years
Time to move on
- jdfitz77

They do count the same on the scoresheet. However, since calls resulting in Penalty's are inconsistent at best and cannot be relied upon to occur equally every game.
Scoring well at 5v5 is highly desirable rather than leaving needed goals to chance.
More desirable vs more valuable us the argument to me.

I love the schizophrenic posts regarding the 2C position over the past 18 months here.
We all knew not having a viable 2C was holding the team back, but some want 1C production at 4C costs.
Larkin would cost too much because he's too good, Trocheck wasn't good enough, Monohan can't play D, Bonino a 3C would be perfect for a year, blah, blah, blah.
Then we hear 2C are never traded, and if they are; back up the Brinks truck to get one

Staal was playing 1C, puting up 55sh pts, provides veteran leadership...the perfect bridge C ... but he's too old. His acquistion cost was exceedingly reasonable and his contract is awesome. They likely could extend him as he wants to play for 2 or 3 years more.

But let's pile on a GREAT 1st move by Adams.
- IonSabres

Who is piling on?

And why is that making u so upset?

They do count the same on the scoresheet. However, since calls resulting in Penalty's are inconsistent at best and cannot be relied upon to occur equally every game.
Scoring well at 5v5 is highly desirable rather than leaving needed goals to chance.
More desirable vs more valuable us the argument to me.
- IonSabres

Who would u rather have...
the guy who scores 15ev goals & 15pp goals
Or the guy who scores 20ev goals & 5pp goals

It’s pretty easy math

But let's pile on a GREAT 1st move by Adams.
- IonSabres

staal is an upgrade over johansson

but by no means is it getting us in the conversation with the bruins or leafs

let alone the bolts

staal is an upgrade over johansson

but by no means is it getting us in the conversation with the bruins or leafs

let alone the bolts
- homiedclown

Doesn’t everyone agree here that:
1- it was a good trade
and
2- there’s still work to be done

Why the hell is anyone still dissecting any of this?

First bolded - that’s a giant stretch. Monahan is very good. He’s not 1C good, but he’s certainly 2C

Second bolded- The entire issue with weighting 5-5 and PP goals/points the same in terms of evaluating players is that the EV goals/points are tougher to get than PP points. This is proven. Same thing with primary points. It doesn’t mean that PP or secondary points “don’t count”. It’s that when that’s the primary mode of production (ala Olofsson or Laine for example) then it creates skepticism.

Let’s be real, who’s more valuable to the Sabres. A guy who mainly scores on the PP with Eichel, or a guy who can provide secondary scoring on a different line while Eichel drives the PP himself anyways?
- sbroads24

I don’t disagree with your very last paragraph. All I am saying is that we need our top end players that are making the big bucks to be able to field a top 15 PP and PK at the very least.

Eichel proved in a small sample size that he’s actually quite good on the PK. Let him be apart of the PK2 unit and hopefully he can take advantage Of some tired players on the other teams PP and create short handed opportunities.

Does Reinhart potentially suck on the PK ? We won’t know until we find out as he hasn’t even had a cup of coffee on the PK even in a year we had one of the worst units in the league. It also wouldn’t hurt for him to chip in a slight bit more in the PP either.

Skinner needs to make more of an impact on the man advantage and accumulate some more points there as we all know he will never touch the ice on the PK as he is not good defensively. Either that or he better score 35 goals at even strength at the bare minimum for that contract not to be the laughing stock of the NHL.

For $6M per we need Okposo to provide some relative value on PP2 and on the PK.

Our goalies also need to be able to stop a beachball when down a man.

Doesn’t everyone agree here that:
1- it was a good trade
and
2- there’s still work to be done

Why the hell is anyone still dissecting any of this?
- jdfitz77

looks like you're getting cranky

looks like you're getting cranky
- Michael Pachla

So then I’ll fit right in with all the boomers who do nothing here but b!tch, whine & complain

So then I’ll fit right in with all the boomers who do nothing here but b!tch, whine & complain
- jdfitz77

i rest my case

Sabres PP before Olofsson - 16th in the NHL
Sabres PP this season with Olofsson - 20th in the NHL.

Now I dare you to do EV goals pre and post Skinner
- sbroads24

I would like a logical explanation as to why it’s ok for Skinner to not score one PPG in his last 80 games even when he was on PP1, however when the name Monahan pops up you are as giddy as a school girl to move 8th OA for a player who derives most of his value on the PP that you seem to devalue on these threads on a daily basis.

Like Jesus Christopher the guy was a -16 on a Flames team that made the playoffs and has had no even strength production at all in the last 10 playoff games he’s played in the past few years. The analytics show he’s brutal defensively too so it’s not like it’s Gaudreau or Lindholm causing that mess.

Then when GMKA makes a trade to move Mojo out for Staal we essentially find a stop gap 2C whom analytically shows a player who can also produce at even strength and isn’t an albatross defensively (however he did receive a lot of o-zone starts) yet it was met with skepticism on your end and you were obviously upset that we didn’t make the big “fancy” move for the sake of making one. Even the people who don’t care about analytics can see that Staal can be a 2C and bring other intangibles like veteran experience and size to our top 6 that we were lacking last year.

So it would ok for Monahan to be a passenger at even strength and kill us defensively as long as he makes our PP a top 10 possibly top 5 Unit in the NHL and it’s ok for Skinner/Reinhart/Okposo to give us replacement value on special teams for what is soon to be 30% of our Salary Cap if not more.

Pick a lane, or admit that special teams plays a major role in small sample sizes like the NHL playoffs or even as small as a single playoff series.

i rest my case
- Michael Pachla

the rent is too damn high