From the Athletic:






https://theathletic.com/2...ly-returnees-for-2020-21/



Also regarding Patrick...
- MBFlyerfan

One thing about Jake imo is I dont think he decline will that rapid at all. He has been healthy. Of course they will likely be some sort of decline as that is natural.

Can you tell me which years?
- login

1996 on his squirt team.

He was a 1st or 2nd pair defenseman getting 20 plus minutes a night on two different teams under 5 different coaches.
- MBFlyerfan

So that qualifies him a legit 2nd pair guy because the talent around him wasnt very good and forced him to play a role he shouldn't have? The teams that made the playoffs those years, I wonder if he would be in their top 4. Did he have a year or 2 as a top 4 guy? Maybe. Overall not a top 4 dman. poop couldn't even get an nhl job when let go.

So that qualifies him a legit 2nd pair guy because the talent around him wasnt very good and forced him to play a role he shouldn't have? The teams that made the playoffs those years, I wonder if he would be in their top 4. Did he have a year or 2 as a top 4 guy? Maybe. Overall not a top 4 dman. poop couldn't even get an nhl job when let go.
- login

Im not debating merit here. Simply stating facts. And the facts say he was on the 1st or 2nd pair on two different teams under 5 different coaches. Not gonna debate whether he deserved to be there. Simply stating that he was.

From the Athletic:






https://theathletic.com/2...ly-returnees-for-2020-21/



Also regarding Patrick...
- MBFlyerfan

100% agree about Jake trade. and why get rid of 1st line talent? As for Patrick, I try not read too much into coaches comments, but AV had a quote about him today that while it’s honest it made me wonder is he slightly getting impatient with the lack of him.

"I'm told there's a tremendous amount of potential in Patrick's case."

- Alain Vigneault on Nolan Patrick's game and ability

Vigneault mentioned how he has not seen much of Patrick.

Again, I try not to read into this too much, but the “I’m told” comment comes off a little as it’s time to see what he actually can do. Or that he wants/needs to see it. Idk

100% agree about Jake trade. and why get rid of 1st line talent? As for Patrick, I try not read too much into coaches comments, but AV had a quote about him today that while it’s honest it made me wonder is he slightly getting impatient with the lack of him.

"I'm told there's a tremendous amount of potential in Patrick's case."

- Alain Vigneault on Nolan Patrick's game and ability

Vigneault mentioned how he has not seen much of Patrick.

Again, I try not to read into this too much, but the “I’m told” comment comes off a little as it’s time to see what he actually can do. Or that he wants/needs to see it. Idk
- arichardson22

Until Patrick appears in games, and multiple strings of games without having to come out of the lineup due to migraines/concussion issues he's a widget in fantasy land.

Chuck Fletcher mentioned he was disappointed that the Flyers seemed to regress in their structure and defensive positioning during the playoffs, compared to the regular season. In my opinion, this was due to the fact the Flyers are not built to win in today's NHL, where fast and tough is the name of the game. The Flyers are built similar to the Blues, big and heavy, but I don't think big and heavy by themselves win in this league. You need to be fast and play fast, i.e. consistently make the right decision at the right time. The Flyers looked physically slower than both the Canadians and Islanders, and when confronted with faster and more skilled players, their decisions were slow and often wrong. To me the Flyers need better top end talent and more physicality on defense. They need players that consistently win puck battles, can skate circles around the opposing players, and can finish scoring chances. This means players like Voracek and JVR don't fit. These two players represent almost $16m/yr in salary and neither can do the three things I mentioned above very well. Your higher salaried players ought to be your most skilled players, yet neither of them are. If there is a way Fletcher can unload both players that would really set up the Flyers for the future. If not, Fletcher has got to reassess his farm system and start making some changes so he can insert more speed and skill into this lineup. Not sure Patrick or Lindblom can even stay on the ice, never mind be the type of player I think this team needs. Frost looks like he can skate, but does he win battles and finish off scoring chances, that remains to be seen. Not sure who else is ready to make a splash in their farm system.

100% agree about Jake trade. and why get rid of 1st line talent? As for Patrick, I try not read too much into coaches comments, but AV had a quote about him today that while it’s honest it made me wonder is he slightly getting impatient with the lack of him.

"I'm told there's a tremendous amount of potential in Patrick's case."

- Alain Vigneault on Nolan Patrick's game and ability

Vigneault mentioned how he has not seen much of Patrick.

Again, I try not to read into this too much, but the “I’m told” comment comes off a little as it’s time to see what he actually can do. Or that he wants/needs to see it. Idk
- arichardson22

Or maybe he just hasn't seen enough of him to comment accurately.

Im not debating merit here. Simply stating facts. And the facts say he was on the 1st or 2nd pair on two different teams under 5 different coaches. Not gonna debate whether he deserved to be there. Simply stating that he was.
- MBFlyerfan

Correct. Simple facts.

100% agree about Jake trade. and why get rid of 1st line talent? As for Patrick, I try not read too much into coaches comments, but AV had a quote about him today that while it’s honest it made me wonder is he slightly getting impatient with the lack of him.

"I'm told there's a tremendous amount of potential in Patrick's case."

- Alain Vigneault on Nolan Patrick's game and ability

Vigneault mentioned how he has not seen much of Patrick.

Again, I try not to read into this too much, but the “I’m told” comment comes off a little as it’s time to see what he actually can do. Or that he wants/needs to see it. Idk
- arichardson22

I don't get that from that at all. What is basically says is a coach, he deals with the players that he has to coach. What he's saying is that there is potential for Patrick to return and play again.

Chuck Fletcher mentioned he was disappointed that the Flyers seemed to regress in their structure and defensive positioning during the playoffs, compared to the regular season. In my opinion, this was due to the fact the Flyers are not built to win in today's NHL, where fast and tough is the name of the game. The Flyers are built similar to the Blues, big and heavy, but I don't think big and heavy by themselves win in this league. You need to be fast and play fast, i.e. consistently make the right decision at the right time. The Flyers looked physically slower than both the Canadians and Islanders, and when confronted with faster and more skilled players, their decisions were slow and often wrong. To me the Flyers need better top end talent and more physicality on defense. They need players that consistently win puck battles, can skate circles around the opposing players, and can finish scoring chances. This means players like Voracek and JVR don't fit. These two players represent almost $16m/yr in salary and neither can do the three things I mentioned above very well. Your higher salaried players ought to be your most skilled players, yet neither of them are. If there is a way Fletcher can unload both players that would really set up the Flyers for the future. If not, Fletcher has got to reassess his farm system and start making some changes so he can insert more speed and skill into this lineup. Not sure Patrick or Lindblom can even stay on the ice, never mind be the type of player I think this team needs. Frost looks like he can skate, but does he win battles and finish off scoring chances, that remains to be seen. Not sure who else is ready to make a splash in their farm system.
- jd250

You stated that Voracek is not one of the team's top skilled players. That would be false. He absolutely is one of the most skilled players on the team. I stopped reading at that point.

Correct. Simple facts.
- MJL

Do you think andy MacDonald would be a a top 4 dman on any cup contending team the years he was a top 4 dman on the flyers?

Why Calgary?
- MJL

I like Sam Bennett. I feel like they could use a player like Jake with their relatively young core