Someone mentioned Hall... crazy girlfriend aside, I rather have Hoffman over Hall.
- arichardson22

Hoffman is the type of player they need, really good skater, can snipe a goal and has good vision. He might be to expensive.

I don’t think anyone is saying to move Jake just to move him. In fact you shouldn’t unless fletch can improve this team but right now, I believe this team is in need of a shake up. We moved on from Richards and Carter a lot sooner who brought more to philly in lesser time.

Hoffman is the type of player they need, really good skater, can snipe a goal and has good vision. He might be to expensive.
- wcorvette

He loves to shoot too. He Def will try to cash out big on this contract. I don’t see us making a move on him because we’d have to shed some salary between JVR and Ghost. But he could be a solid fix for our PP woes

He's hit 20+ goal mark six times in his career, including three of the last four seasons. I wouldn't call that "struggling" to get to 20 even if he often finishes with exactly 20.

He's always been more of a playmaking winger than a goal-scorer, anyway, and he's hit 40+ assists in seven straight seasons (including seasons with 59 and 65 assists). That's quite impressive.

Over the last seven seasons, he is 17th among all NHL forwards in total points and sixth in assists. His 0.85 points per game ranks right in the same territory as Vladimir Tarasenko (0.87), Mathew Barzal (0.88), Phil Kessel (0.86), is identical to Patrice Bergeron, Sebastian Aho and Aleksander Barkov, and slightly higher than Jonathan Huberdeau (0.83), Joe Pavelski (0.83), Evgeni Kuznetov (0.81), Patrik Laine (0.81), Kyle Connor (0.81) and other notables.

Voracek has only missed four games over the last four seasons (two of which were due to a suspension). Over the last eight years, he's only missed a combined 13 games, and dressed in every game of six of those seasons.

While he'll never be known as a two-way player, during the regular season this year, Voracek worked harder on his two-way play than I've ever seen him do, and he had a very good season overall in that regard. It did suck that he was largely responsible for the 2nd goal in Game 7 of the Islanders game, but his overall body of two-way work this year was some of his best as a Flyer.

There are times when Voracek can be a frustrating player, including to Vigneault. He does make some careless plays. I think we'd all like to more often see him in that "I'm taking this puck to the slot/net and no one is gonna stop me" mode that he gets in sometimes. But to say the consistency of his overall production hasn't been impressive is to not compare his around the league. Only if you are looking for superstar-level production is it in any way lacking.

Voracek is a big, strong forward who can also skate, handle the puck on entries and thread the needle. He's never been a pure goal-scorer, going all the way back to junior hockey, but he'll get his 20 most years.

I'm not automatically opposed to trading him. Just realize that he's NOT an easy player to replace or upgrade upon.
- bmeltzer

Thanks for the insight and perspective. Jake still has a bit in the tank. If I'm the Flyers I don't try and move him. JvR unless he can bounce back next season is a big problem.

do we know the dates for the draft, FA and next season tentative start?

do we know the dates for the draft, FA and next season tentative start?
- wcorvette

It would be nice if there were a blog that answered those questions. ;-)

Only thing I'll say on a Voracek trade is it hopefully it'll help the Flyers both short and long term.

They played some of their worst hockey that I can remember in recent time and still came within a win of a ECF round. I'd hate to see them quit on a key component that helped them get there.
- Pelle31Forever

Yeah, people talk like they're a bloodletting away from winning it all, when the issues that tripped them up (inexperience, systematic break downs and inconsistency) are team issues, not individual ones.

Tampa could have done some splashy poop after last season's PO debacle. Ditto the Islanders. They didn't and they're both in the Conference Finals.

He's hit 20+ goal mark six times in his career, including three of the last four seasons. I wouldn't call that "struggling" to get to 20 even if he often finishes with exactly 20.

He's always been more of a playmaking winger than a goal-scorer, anyway, and he's hit 40+ assists in seven straight seasons (including seasons with 59 and 65 assists). That's quite impressive.

Over the last seven seasons, he is 17th among all NHL forwards in total points and sixth in assists. His 0.85 points per game ranks right in the same territory as Vladimir Tarasenko (0.87), Mathew Barzal (0.88), Phil Kessel (0.86), is identical to Patrice Bergeron, Sebastian Aho and Aleksander Barkov, and slightly higher than Jonathan Huberdeau (0.83), Joe Pavelski (0.83), Evgeni Kuznetov (0.81), Patrik Laine (0.81), Kyle Connor (0.81) and other notables.

Voracek has only missed four games over the last four seasons (two of which were due to a suspension). Over the last eight years, he's only missed a combined 13 games, and dressed in every game of six of those seasons.

While he'll never be known as a two-way player, during the regular season this year, Voracek worked harder on his two-way play than I've ever seen him do, and he had a very good season overall in that regard. It did suck that he was largely responsible for the 2nd goal in Game 7 of the Islanders game, but his overall body of two-way work this year was some of his best as a Flyer.

There are times when Voracek can be a frustrating player, including to Vigneault. He does make some careless plays. I think we'd all like to more often see him in that "I'm taking this puck to the slot/net and no one is gonna stop me" mode that he gets in sometimes. But to say the consistency of his overall production hasn't been impressive is to not compare his around the league. Only if you are looking for superstar-level production is it in any way lacking.

Voracek is a big, strong forward who can also skate, handle the puck on entries and thread the needle. He's never been a pure goal-scorer, going all the way back to junior hockey, but he'll get his 20 most years.

I'm not automatically opposed to trading him. Just realize that he's NOT an easy player to replace or upgrade upon.
- bmeltzer

I think we have two different views on what struggling to get 20 goals is. First, no other skilled forward on this team or most teams getting paid 8 million plus is questioned on whether or not they’ll hit 20 goals. It should just be automatic. In fact, why isn’t he scoring 30 or even flirted with 30 goals his entire career? Not knowing whether or not he’ll get 20 goals or reach 70 points is a bad thing as a top player on this team.

So yourself.

Has he ever taken us to a Stanley Cup Final or come close to this? No.

Is he ever gonna score 30 or 40 goals? No.

Does he make the All-Star team each season as a bonafide star in this league? No.

Is he a guarantee for 70 points each season? No.

I think there are a lot of boxes Jake should have checked in his career but never has. What level of star is he and is he the right guy to be a top player on this team anymore.

Start with Ivan if they want D as the centerpiece. Up front will cost multiple pieces. Frost and farabee to start. Unless they can extend couterier not sure they would have interest in him.
- login

Sounds good, where do I sign?

AND every single time a deal is made for a star?

The team GETTING the star wins. So...

IF he wants out, the price will be reasonable.

I think there is a reason Meltzer mentions Voracek, JVR and Ghosts contracts in this article, because he knows like the rest of us that the Flyers need to get out from under these bad contracts. I think each player has value for different reasons, but I would consider it a very successful off-season if the Flyers did nothing else but get out from these contracts. Out of all the unrestricted free agents the Flyers have, the only players I would want to resign are Elliott and Pitlick. The rest, including Braun and Grant can go IMO.

I think we have two different views on what struggling to get 20 goals is. First, no other skilled forward on this team or most teams getting paid 8 million plus is questioned on whether or not they’ll hit 20 goals. It should just be automatic. In fact, why isn’t he scoring 30 or even flirted with 30 goals his entire career? Not knowing whether or not he’ll get 20 goals or reach 70 points is a bad thing as a top player on this team.

So yourself.

Has he ever taken us to a Stanley Cup Final or come close to this? No.

Is he ever gonna score 30 or 40 goals? No.

Does he make the All-Star team each season as a bonafide star in this league? No.

Is he a guarantee for 70 points each season? No.

I think there are a lot of boxes Jake should have checked in his career but never has. What level of star is he and is he the right guy to be a top player on this team anymore.
- SuperSchennBros

Style of play. Ovie paid to score. Backstrom to set him up.

If this is you reasoning. Marner who puts up slightly better numbers is making over 10 mil. Highest goal total was 26. But he assists or sets up Matthews.

I think there is a reason Meltzer mentions Voracek, JVR and Ghosts contracts in this article, because he knows like the rest of us that the Flyers need to get out from under these bad contracts. I think each player has value for different reasons, but I would consider it a very successful off-season if the Flyers did nothing else but get out from these contracts. Out of all the unrestricted free agents the Flyers have, the only players I would want to resign are Elliott and Pitlick. The rest, including Braun and Grant can go IMO.
- jd250

No no no. Purely to help drive the arguments of his posters. Haha

Does Toronto have to trade one of their big 3?

Does Toronto have to trade one of their big 3?
- wcorvette

No but maybe some supporting cast member. When you add them all up they are in trouble. Especially if some are arbitration eligible.

was there an update after this? and no FA window just a free for all



Oct. 6 — NHL Draft
Oct. 9 (or seven days after Stanley Cup Final ends) — Free agency opens
Nov. 17 — Opening of training camps for 2020-21 season
Dec. 1 — Opening Day of 2020-21 regular seaso

No but maybe some supporting cast member. When you add them all up they are in trouble. Especially if some are arbitration eligible.
- Peter Richards

not just from a cap standpoint but also team makeup standpoint? Have they proved that the team as it sits is not a contender?

I have claimed that the Flyers will not win the Cup as long as G is the player we need to step up. He cannot carry a team by himself. We will win the Cup when G is utilized more as a "role" guy and not the one to carry the offense. We are getting close but we need more pieces.

Lindblom - Patrick - TK
Ratcliff - Frost - Farabee
G - Coots - NAK
Raffl - Thompson/Grant - Pitlick

Provy - Nisky
Myers - Sanheim
York - Hagg/Morin?/Zamula

HART
- cdearth23

Bust fake migraine boy Patrick top center?
Hahahhaahahahahahhahahaahahhahaha

No but maybe some supporting cast member. When you add them all up they are in trouble. Especially if some are arbitration eligible.
- Peter Richards

I coveted Marner before that deal, and I still do.

They cannot win with their $$$ tied up in 3 players.

Period. They should move one.

I will take Mathews or Marner.

I don’t think anyone is saying to move Jake just to move him. In fact you shouldn’t unless fletch can improve this team but right now, I believe this team is in need of a shake up. We moved on from Richards and Carter a lot sooner who brought more to philly in lesser time.
- SuperSchennBros

That was part of the reason they got the haul they did for Carter and Richards, because they were in their mid-20s and in their primes. Moving Voracek at 31 making over 8 mil a season for the next 4 seasons, I can't imagine the Flyers getting a return that doesn't set them back.

I coveted Marner before that deal, and I still do.

They cannot win with their $$$ tied up in 3 players.

Period. They should move one.

I will take Mathews or Marner.
- DrMidnite

Why not. Worked similar to Pitt. You need a supporting cast but like Pitt they have the centers. A descent goalie. They need help on d then they will be a legit contender.

Thanks for the insight and perspective. Jake still has a bit in the tank. If I'm the Flyers I don't try and move him. JvR unless he can bounce back next season is a big problem.
- Pixote Andolini

JVR had a really bad playoff like a lot of players did. However, he was actually solid in the regular season. I would like to move the contract but he should be able to contribute moving forward if he stays.

Why not. Worked similar to Pitt. You need a supporting cast but like Pitt they have the centers. A descent goalie. They need help on d then they will be a legit contender.
- Peter Richards

IDK. Pitt has Crosby, the best player since Gretzky.

Toronto does not.

His time here is up imo. If he goes and flourishes elsewhere so be it as doesn't seem like will happen. The question is do you just give him away?
- login

I think he’ll be part of a package that includes this years 1st.

JVR had a really bad playoff like a lot of players did. However, he was actually solid in the regular season. I would like to move the contract but he should be able to contribute moving forward if he stays.
- MJL

Agree

Yeah, people talk like they're a bloodletting away from winning it all, when the issues that tripped them up (inexperience, systematic break downs and inconsistency) are team issues, not individual ones.

Tampa could have done some splashy poop after last season's PO debacle. Ditto the Islanders. They didn't and they're both in the Conference Finals.
- Tomahawk

Agreed. This team was not the same team after the stoppage that they were before it. For whatever reason. The team that played before the stoppage gives the Isles all that they could handle. Add in improved play from younger players and some bounce back from vets and they're a good team. Please, no long term deals to players like Hoffman or Hall that aren't worth it. Stay patient. Make smart trades if you can but lets not go back to the way it was in the Holmgren years with going for it year after year. Doesn't work.