Why is this though? I got into this argument with a bunch of people a couple years ago when Hoffman was traded and everyone thought it was nuts to move Bennett straight up for him

Out of Cozens, you likely hope to see 30 goals and 80 points a season, which is basically what you get out of Mony today. From scouting reports, I don't see a ton regarding his defensive prowess, he's mostly a shooter, which is Monahan, though he might have a more physical edge.

The argument being, if you have a known quantity that is the ceiling of the guy you're trading away, why not take the known quantity?
- rmull905

To the bolded above, it is?

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sean-monahan

Looks like that 80 point season is an anomaly, and 60 is the norm.

To what do you attribute his poor production this past season?

If you really believed he was a consistent 80 point producer annually, you would not have interest in trading him.

Monahan vs 8th overall, Johnson and rights to Pilut.

Done.

Not to be That Guy but Hanifin got 90 minutes of PP time this season vs Montour's 35.
- BINGO!

He only got some PP minutes when Brodie went down. Most of those minutes were 2nd PP, are that guy that can see the amount of #1 & 2nd unit PP minutes. I watched the games so i go be eye test.

Hear me out on this one. Gaudreau and Monahan for Eichel. Gaudreau has two years left at like $6.75MM and Monahan has three years left at a little less, both great value. Eichel is about $10MM and change. Gaudreau and Monahan would sell tickets, round out a first or second line and would almost certainly get the Sabres into the post season. They may not get far in the playoffs but would at least get there. Is it that crazy? Eichel has indicated he wouldn't mind moving on...
- Summitking82

Eichel is a top 10 talent in this league, Sabres won’t trade him. He’s under contract for 6 more seasons, also he said he’s tired of losing nothing about wanting or requesting a trade, I suppose you could read into what he said. He’s never said absolutely he wants a trade. You’d probably have to switch Tkachuk and jg,add prospects and a first rounder.
He’s a Sabre until is contract is up.

And how many D are you guys gonna be looking for, half your D core are FA. Saying that Montour is a underpayment for Bennett is ridiculous when Bennett has pretty much done nothing, if he didn't have a decent playoffs you guys would be throwing him under the bus.
- Buff36

Well first off Andersen & Hanifin are young & locked up for several years, they are minimum 2nd pairing D. Gio is also top 4, some are debating he's in decline but every player has an off year & you notice an off year a lot more after you just won a Norris trophy. Valamaki has stud written all over him & a top 4 spot is his to lose.
Would be nice to get another 4-5 guy & that bottom pairing is wide open & we have some young guys that should compete pretty hard for that spot. Our backend is taking a big shift younger & cheaper, given the Cap, letting Brodie, Hamonic, Stone walk isnt necessarily a bad thing.

Bennett hasnt really been given a lot of rope & opportunity to crack the top 6 or play the centre position that he was drafted for. So most Flames fans are quite content to keep him, even if he anchors the 3rd line. Flames are at fault if that is his ceiling. Thing is, he isnt getting some outrageous salary we all are groaning about like that cough** Okposo contract.

Not a fan of any of those teams unless a RH top-6 player (preferably centre) was coming back.

Give me Cozens or keep Monny.

He's 1-dimensional but he's better than any of those players straight up (unless Lindy can shift to C permanently then Ehlers wouldn't be the worst).

I think Monahan would be the perfect fit in Buffalo but our fan base is split on him.
Cozins and #8 wont happen but I could see #8 and Risto or #8 and another prospect like Johnson or Samuelsson or Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen getting it done.
- Balboa

Well first off Andersen & Hanifin are young & locked up for several years, they are minimum 2nd pairing D. Gio is also top 4, some are debating he's in decline but every player has an off year & you notice an off year a lot more after you just won a Norris trophy. Valamaki has stud written all over him & a top 4 spot is his to lose.
Would be nice to get another 4-5 guy & that bottom pairing is wide open & we have some young guys that should compete pretty hard for that spot. Our backend is taking a big shift younger & cheaper, given the Cap, letting Brodie, Hamonic, Stone walk isnt necessarily a bad thing.

Bennett hasnt really been given a lot of rope & opportunity to crack the top 6 or play the centre position that he was drafted for. So most Flames fans are quite content to keep him, even if he anchors the 3rd line. Flames are at fault if that is his ceiling. Thing is, he isnt getting some outrageous salary we all are groaning about like that cough** Okposo contract.
- Kevin R

Why is Okposo being brought up, yeah it's a bad contract, any Sabres fan would agree, unfortunately concussion's have killed him. And the same could be said about Montour and off year, and Montour would fit that 4-5 guy perfectly with a chance of being more, he is only 26. But to say he is a underpayment for Bennett is just not right, especially when he brings more offense from the backend then Bennett does as a forward.

You can keep arguing all you want, but the bottom line is there's about a 0.5% chance Monahan or Gaudreau is getting traded. Unless it's something ridiculously stupid like the Sabres willing to trade Eichel or Columbus willing to trade Jones, it's not happening this year. There isn't a trade that makes any sense with Buffalo since both teams want to win next year.

It makes zero sense for the Flames to be trading either of them this offseason unless they're blowing everything up.

Eichel is a top 10 talent in this league, Sabres won’t trade him. He’s under contract for 6 more seasons, also he said he’s tired of losing nothing about wanting or requesting a trade, I suppose you could read into what he said. He’s never said absolutely he wants a trade. You’d probably have to switch Tkachuk and jg,add prospects and a first rounder.
He’s a Sabre until is contract is up.
- Sabres1523

I hear ya on that and figured any talk of trading Eichel would rattle Sabres fans, although that wasn't my intention. But if you just look at the stats straight up, you're getting at least 150 points between Gaudreau and Monahan. On top of that, they're fun to watch and sell tickets. Eichel is fun to watch, too and there is a salary difference, albeit not huge. I really think all players involved could use a change. Would I want to trade Eichel if I was a big Sabres fan. No. Do I think the team would be better after this trade? Absolutely.

You can keep arguing all you want, but the bottom line is there's about a 0.5% chance Monahan or Gaudreau is getting traded. Unless it's something ridiculously stupid like the Sabres willing to trade Eichel or Columbus willing to trade Jones, it's not happening this year. There isn't a trade that makes any sense with Buffalo since both teams want to win next year.

It makes zero sense for the Flames to be trading either of them this offseason unless they're blowing everything up.
- Hunkulese

Very much disagree. BT put his trust in the roster last year by making almost no changes. The team blew it and BT loses his job guaranteed if they go into this season again without major changes and underperform again.

Only way I see this happening is if they sign a major head coach and have another 2018-19 season but with a better ending...

Eichel is a top 10 talent in this league, Sabres won’t trade him. He’s under contract for 6 more seasons, also he said he’s tired of losing nothing about wanting or requesting a trade, I suppose you could read into what he said. He’s never said absolutely he wants a trade. You’d probably have to switch Tkachuk and jg,add prospects and a first rounder.
He’s a Sabre until is contract is up.
- Sabres1523

IF WE MISS THE PLAYOFFS AGAIN JACKS NARRATIVE WILL BE DIFFERENT NEXT SUMMER.

I would not be overpaying for playoff performance when the regular season performance has been what he's shown so far. I would gladly let some other team do that.
- kingcong39

Playoff performance is why Monahan isn't going to net the return some Flames fans seem to be hoping for. He's going to valued as a complementary 2C; not a 1C or a star player.

Very much disagree. BT put his trust in the roster last year by making almost no changes. The team blew it and BT loses his job guaranteed if they go into this season again without major changes and underperform again.

Only way I see this happening is if they sign a major head coach and have another 2018-19 season but with a better ending...
- LittleBroDougie

GMs with their jobs on the line don't trade away their best players hoping that it'll improve the team in three years. Trading Gaudreau and Monahan for prospects and picks pretty much ensures the Flames will be awful next year and Treliving will be gone.

They also didn't blow it. They got shut down by the team that was the best at shutting teams down this year. They were also missing their second-best player for the series and were still 11 seconds away from a 3-1 lead.

Playoff performance is why Monahan isn't going to net the return some Flames fans seem to be hoping for. He's going to valued as a complementary 2C; not a 1C or a star player.
- DarthProbert

This is overblown IMO

21 points in 30 playoff games for a player his age isn't that bad

This is overblown IMO

21 points in 30 playoff games for a player his age isn't that bad
- flashfire

It's pretty similar to his regular season scoring rate.

This is overblown IMO

21 points in 30 playoff games for a player his age isn't that bad
- flashfire

He had the same amount of points (8 in 10 games) as Bennett did, just more assists than goals?

He had the same amount of points (8 in 10 games) as Bennett did, just more assists than goals?
- kingcong39

I guess you're not up to date on current fancy stats. PP points aren't worth the same as 5v5 points.

Because 8 and Cozens is a overpay. Cozens is 6yrs younger, and is said to have a very good 200ft game. I have no problem giving 8 and Montour or Johnson for Monahan. But I would rather keep Cozens.
- Buff36

Oh, well, yeah, 8 and Cozens is an overpay in this draft, but the statement I was asking about was whether Cozens was untouchable in a trade for Mony - really, he shouldn't be. You can either value him a little higher because he's cheaper and might have a higher ceiling, or a little lower on the basis that he's unproven at the next level.

Tre would argue the latter for sure, and I would tend to agree. You don't know if Cozens will be a top 6 winger, a #1 or #2 centre or what until he starts to suit up against the men of the NHL. Risky to trade a relatively cheap known commodity for and unknown commodity in Cozens, so the argument then leans towards the Flames a bit IMO. It would be Cozens + for Tre to get it done. Especially because it would signal a teardown in Calgary when they were a playoff team this year.

Eichel is a top 10 talent in this league, Sabres won’t trade him. He’s under contract for 6 more seasons, also he said he’s tired of losing nothing about wanting or requesting a trade, I suppose you could read into what he said. He’s never said absolutely he wants a trade. You’d probably have to switch Tkachuk and jg,add prospects and a first rounder.
He’s a Sabre until is contract is up.
- Sabres1523

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Get the (frank) outta here with that.

To the bolded above, it is?

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/sean-monahan

Looks like that 80 point season is an anomaly, and 60 is the norm.

To what do you attribute his poor production this past season?

If you really believed he was a consistent 80 point producer annually, you would not have interest in trading him.
- kingcong39

That the entire Flames first line shat the bed this year... Johnny stopped shooting, Gio stopped playing an offensive game, a lot of the guys that helped to pickup the points a year before were just not as good.

Sure, call it 60 point seasons though, he's not a setup guy. Clearly that's Johnny's role. He's there to point and shoot for the most part. Cozens will largely be in the same boat. He's got a hell of a shot, haven't seen rave reviews on his playmaking, not a lot out there on his defensive prowess, didn't throw a ton of hits in Jr. I just don't see a huge gap between these guys is my point.

A statement from his draft profile:

Simply put, he’s one of the top offensive players available in the 2019 NHL Draft. He might not be as versatile or rounded out as Krebs or Dach, but he’s a strong power forward – he’s a muscle car, not an SUV – and he could be exactly what NHL clubs are looking for early in the first round

A big, strong and powerful 6-foot-3, 181-pound centre who plays for the Lethbridge Hurricanes. Cozens is a unique story, born in Whitehorse in Yukon Territory. Cozens has 25 goals and 58 points in 45 games this season. He’s the opposite of [Kirby] Dach in many respects. Cozens is a shoot-first centre with a tremendous shot. He is a fast and powerful skater who plays a bullish power game.” – Bob McKenzie, TSN

This is overblown IMO

21 points in 30 playoff games for a player his age isn't that bad
- flashfire

But, um, that only 8 of those have come at even strength is... well, it's not good.

It's pretty similar to his regular season scoring rate.
- BINGO!

His splits for power play vs even strength scoring are measurably different though

That the entire Flames first line shat the bed this year... Johnny stopped shooting, Gio stopped playing an offensive game, a lot of the guys that helped to pickup the points a year before were just not as good.

Sure, call it 60 point seasons though, he's not a setup guy. Clearly that's Johnny's role. He's there to point and shoot for the most part. Cozens will largely be in the same boat. He's got a hell of a shot, haven't seen rave reviews on his playmaking, not a lot out there on his defensive prowess, didn't throw a ton of hits in Jr. I just don't see a huge gap between these guys is my point.

A statement from his draft profile:

Simply put, he’s one of the top offensive players available in the 2019 NHL Draft. He might not be as versatile or rounded out as Krebs or Dach, but he’s a strong power forward – he’s a muscle car, not an SUV – and he could be exactly what NHL clubs are looking for early in the first round

A big, strong and powerful 6-foot-3, 181-pound centre who plays for the Lethbridge Hurricanes. Cozens is a unique story, born in Whitehorse in Yukon Territory. Cozens has 25 goals and 58 points in 45 games this season. He’s the opposite of
- rmull905[Kirby] Dach in many respects. Cozens is a shoot-first centre with a tremendous shot. He is a fast and powerful skater who plays a bullish power game.” – Bob McKenzie, TSN

Did the entire Flames first line poop the bed the prior years when he never approached 80 either?

That the entire Flames first line shat the bed this year... Johnny stopped shooting, Gio stopped playing an offensive game, a lot of the guys that helped to pickup the points a year before were just not as good.

Sure, call it 60 point seasons though, he's not a setup guy. Clearly that's Johnny's role. He's there to point and shoot for the most part. Cozens will largely be in the same boat. He's got a hell of a shot, haven't seen rave reviews on his playmaking, not a lot out there on his defensive prowess, didn't throw a ton of hits in Jr. I just don't see a huge gap between these guys is my point.

A statement from his draft profile:

Simply put, he’s one of the top offensive players available in the 2019 NHL Draft. He might not be as versatile or rounded out as Krebs or Dach, but he’s a strong power forward – he’s a muscle car, not an SUV – and he could be exactly what NHL clubs are looking for early in the first round

A big, strong and powerful 6-foot-3, 181-pound centre who plays for the Lethbridge Hurricanes. Cozens is a unique story, born in Whitehorse in Yukon Territory. Cozens has 25 goals and 58 points in 45 games this season. He’s the opposite of
- rmull905[Kirby] Dach in many respects. Cozens is a shoot-first centre with a tremendous shot. He is a fast and powerful skater who plays a bullish power game.” – Bob McKenzie, TSN

His game has gotten more all around he had 50 assists last year and 47 in 48 games this year. Looking forward to seeing the kid this year, has put on about 15lbs to.