Majority of your posts show no optimism whatsoever for the Flyers. Provorov is a top 10 draft pick who is a top pairing defenseman who is only going to get better. Both Sanheim and Myers have real potential to be really good NHL defenseman. Then there is Carter Hart. Then we have other strong young players and prospects such as Konency, Lindblom, Farabee and Frost.

In conclusion, just having a few outstanding forwards does not a team make. The best team wins, not just the team with the best individual players at the top of the lineup. I respectfully suggest you are delusional if you don't understand that.
- MJL

I explained my reasoning in answering to hereticpride, schennbros and claudefather...

Think carefully about this distinction before answering please:

Is it necessary to build a team around stars to win the cup? The answer in the past twenty years suggests yes. Most have star players in several of the categories I listed to SchennBro.

Is it sufficient to build a team around stars? Iotw: Does building such a team guarantee victory? No. Example: Edmonton.

In other words, what is the likelihood of building a team around elite stars and winning the SC? Maybe 20%?

What is the likelihood of NOT building a team around stars and winning the cup? Maybe 5%

Thus, the former is 4 times more likely than the latter.
- PT21

You literally just made up random numbers and tried to pretend you have some evidence. You are a joke.

Please help me understand how it is outrageous to think he won’t be around

Your opinion is relevant to me as I want to hear what you think
- login

Who was the guy that dropped the gloves to try and spark the team?

I think Hart and Provorov are already great. Sanheim and Myers are very young but were a big part of the team and at their age and for their position there is every reason to believe they will get better. The forwards are what they are. G and Jake are past their peak but still useful and very good players.
Hayes and Couts are in their prime years, and Konecny, Farabee, and likely Frost will all improve and be impact players for a while. Lindblom like you mentioned is in remission and like Patrick the future is unpredictable for these two.
I’m optimistic about the club and their growth this year. You are being a realist and pretty pessimistic today which is understandable given the showing against the Isles.
- Marc D

I think you are a very kind person and engaging in some grade inflation and hope.

If Hart is already great after 1 season where he often struggled in road games, and Provy is already great where he is routinely ranked outside the top 15 D-men playing today, what would you call Price, Vasilevsky, Hedman, Jones, etc.?

You saw a great D man, aging but still able to take our top forward and make him pretty much vanish in the series against the Habs.

Thats the kind of guy I call great. Do you think Provy is there yet? If so, how come others in the league don't rank him higher?

Who was the guy that dropped the gloves to try and spark the team?
- ClaudeFather

So that is your reasoning for why he will be around. Ok sounds good

So what type of contract you offer him?

You literally just made up random numbers and tried to pretend you have some evidence. You are a joke.
- ClaudeFather

I made up numbers to make it easier for you to illustrate the distinction between necessary and sufficient. I also told you to think about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...Necessity_and_sufficiency

But, you are not just a moron, you have no desire to change course, so let it be recorded I tried.

any chance they pickup johny hockey?

Team needs a few players that aren't non-fast.
- MrBuzzcut

Have you ever traveled across small towns in England? It is full of clubhouses of their currently insignificant soccer teams replete with genteel memorabilia of their glory days 40,50,60, even 100 years ago. The fan base is concentrated and loyalty is handed down across generations but does not spread much beyond that.

Maybe we are heading in that direction.

I made up numbers to make it easier for you to illustrate the distinction between necessary and sufficient. I also told you to think about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...Necessity_and_sufficiency

But, you are not just a moron, you have no desire to change course, so let it be recorded I tried.
- PT21

And I’m the moron...

And I’m the moron...
- ClaudeFather

Yes, you are, because they were a simple example to help you understand a simple issue.

Like, when you say: suppose Laughton scores 50 goals next year. Then we will not be able to afford him, because he would get too expensive.

Those made up goal #s are designed to illustrate the point that if he has too good a year, he may be gone.

Yes, you are, because they were a simple example to help you understand a simple issue.

Like, when you say: suppose Laughton scores 50 goals next year. Then we will not be able to afford him, because he would get too expensive.

Those made up goal #s are designed to illustrate the point that if he has too good a year, he may be gone.
- PT21

Please read this post again and look at how stupid this sounds. Read your posts before pressing submit. You had a rough night, I’m sure you’ll be on here again tomorrow with the same old schtick. Re group and get some sleep pal.

Have you ever traveled across small towns in England? It is full of clubhouses of their currently insignificant soccer teams replete with genteel memorabilia of their glory days 40,50,60, even 100 years ago. The fan base is concentrated and loyalty is handed down across generations but does not spread much beyond that.

Maybe we are heading in that direction.
- PT21

I think it's safe to say the Flyers have lost the lofty position they used to occupy as one of the league's model franchises.

Right now they're just another team in the league.

Please read this post again and look at how stupid this sounds. Read your posts before pressing submit. You had a rough night, I’m sure you’ll be on here again tomorrow with the same old schtick. Re group and get some sleep pal.
- ClaudeFather

Thanks for the good wishes. There is nothing I said here, that needs revision,including calling you a dimwit.

Go read the first page of this thread where the necessity of having stars for winning the cup (which is different from the sufficiency) was already discussed.

No hard feelings. Good night to you too.

I think it's safe to say the Flyers have lost the lofty position they used to occupy as one of the league's model franchises.

Right now they're just another team in the league.
- MrBuzzcut

Has their fan base imbibed this reality? I mean, we always seem to be on the verge of some epiphany that never comes.

Vegas 12 shots going into the 3rd. Does this mean they need to trade their captain and blow it up ?

Vegas 12 shots going into the 3rd. Does this mean they need to trade their captain and blow it up ?
- arichardson22

Has there captain been on the team for over a decade and not done squat in the playoffs the last few years?

I think you are a very kind person and engaging in some grade inflation and hope.

If Hart is already great after 1 season where he often struggled in road games, and Provy is already great where he is routinely ranked outside the top 15 D-men playing today, what would you call Price, Vasilevsky, Hedman, Jones, etc.?

You saw a great D man, aging but still able to take our top forward and make him pretty much vanish in the series against the Habs.

Thats the kind of guy I call great. Do you think Provy is there yet? If so, how come others in the league don't rank him higher?
- PT21

Yes, he is, and Hart is only getting better. There is so much irony in your argument as a Flyers fan. You want to know who our superstar is? Who we need to build the team around? Coots, the perennial selke finalist, not good enough for you.

Here:
https://www.nhl.com/player/8479394

First postseason a .926 sv% and 2.23 GAA with 2 shutouts. Among goalies who played at least 10 games, Hart ranks 5th in GAA and 3rd in sv%. The goalies who rank above him average age of 30. The two with better Sv% are Price and Vasilevskiy. Hart just turned 22. How important is that piece of the puzzle in hockey?

Tell me oh Flyers fan the last goalie in Flyers history who performed as well in the playoffs?

The defense is solid and, once again, improving.

Yes, he is, and Hart is only getting better. There is so much irony in your argument as a Flyers fan. You want to know who our superstar is? Who we need to build the team around? Coots, the perennial selke finalist, not good enough for you.

Here:
https://www.nhl.com/player/8479394

First postseason a .926 sv% and 2.23 GAA with 2 shutouts. Among goalies who played at least 10 games, Hart ranks 5th in GAA and 3rd in sv%. The goalies who rank above him average age of 30. The two with better Sv% are Price and Vasilevskiy. Hart just turned 22. How important is that piece of the puzzle in hockey?

Tell me oh Flyers fan the last goalie in Flyers history who performed as well in the playoffs?

The defense is solid and, once again, improving.
- NC Flyers Fan

So if I understand correctly, your argument for calling a goalie great is a sample set of 12 games, and the fact no Flyers goalie has done that before?

We simply have a difference in opinion of what constitutes greatness. What you call greatness I call great ..promise.

So if I understand correctly, your argument for calling a goalie great is a sample set of 12 games, and the fact no Flyers goalie has done that before?

We simply have a difference in opinion of what constitutes greatness. What you call greatness I call great ..promise.
- PT21

No, I know what they have. You need to wait to see it year after year after year.

I understood a little when Hart had not yet played in the NHL that most are reluctant to value a goalie highly. Now...how long do you have to see it to admit what I already know?

Greatness is often only ascribed after much accomplishments. You were looking for our superstar. I was just pointing him out to you.

My g/f and I were driving home just before the game started last night, and she asked me if I'd feel proud of the team even if they lost.

I said "yeah, unless they didn't show up and lost like 10 - 0, or something."

Well, it wasn't as bad as 10-zip, but pretty close. I just don't know if I feel proud of this team, because that ending was flat out embarrassing.

Thanks for all your work, Bill.

No, I know what they have. You need to wait to see it year after year after year.

I understood a little when Hart had not yet played in the NHL that most are reluctant to value a goalie highly. Now...how long do you have to see it to admit what I already know?

Greatness is often only ascribed after much accomplishments. You were looking for our superstar. I was just pointing him out to you.
- NC Flyers Fan

No, you pointed out our potential superstar. 👍

I am as excited by him as you are. The difference is,I have experienced many potential superstars with meteoric rises who have had big falls.

Go look at Giroux's initial playoff numbers pre NJD 2012. That's a sample set much much larger than Harts run now.

And then look at the #s since.

No, you pointed out our potential superstar. 👍

I am as excited by him as you are. The difference is,I have experienced many potential superstars with meteoric rises who have had big falls.

Go look at Giroux's initial playoff numbers pre NJD 2012. That's a sample set much much larger than Harts run now.

And then look at the #s since.
- PT21

You have not sounded remotely excited today nor would I describe your projections positively.

I have watched most likely every game of Giroux’s career. I don’t need to look it up. However, we were not speaking of Giroux and everyone is different, especially in comparison of a forward to a goalie.

I’m not saying Hart will never have a bad game or playoff series. Those other elite players you mentioned today on other teams haven’t proven their futures any more than Hart can. It doesn’t mean they are not currently elite by the same token, as a 22 year old goalie, Hart is elite. If I am just speaking of potential, then he is exceptional.

You have not sounded remotely excited today nor would I describe your projections positively.

I have watched most likely every game of Giroux’s career. I don’t need to look it up. However, we were not speaking of Giroux and everyone is different, especially in comparison of a forward to a goalie.

I’m not saying Hart will never have a bad game or playoff series. Those other elite players you mentioned today on other teams haven’t proven their futures any more than Hart can. It doesn’t mean they are not currently elite by the same token, as a 22 year old goalie, Hart is elite. If I am just speaking of potential, then he is exceptional.
- NC Flyers Fan

Thats a fair comment.

My remarks today stem largely from my observation that there is a qualitative difference between being good and being a star, by which I mean amongst say the top 5-7 in your position, and it seems teams that win cups have stars in some of several key positions (note that I did not say that all teams with stars win cups - key position stardom is necessary but not sufficient.). Well rounded otherwise deep teams that have good players but not stars often fall short,like I expect VGK to do this year.

Couts is clearly a current star in the defensive forward position (though not a perennial Selke front runner, as you said earlier - this is only his second year as a finalist).

Carter Hart and Provorov are future possible stars. But they are certainly not current stars in that sense. Hart largely becauseof small sample set, Provorov because he is not there in merit yet.

We all hope they get there, but not every promising career ends in stardom. Further, the supporting cast,so to speak also needs a lot of growth and turnover,as we saw.

As such, I see a cup in the next 4 years a long shot. Lots of things need to go right and based on what I saw, I find it improbable.

You missed the main guy. Pietrangelo.
- PT21

that's provy

As such, I see a cup in the next 4 years a long shot. Lots of things need to go right and based on what I saw, I find it improbable.
- PT21

We vary on that 4 year projection. How about the loser remembers to apologize within 4 years if proven wrong? I’ll agree now to forgive you.

I look forward to your apology which I expect to be eloquent.