so glad someone caught that.
- Doc_Sarcasm

To be fair, he did not say it today.

You forgot Flyers fans on the list above.
- Balboa

We are either overly disgusted or not disgusted enough. Opinion is divided on the issue.

And posters like you will never demand excellence as a precondition for happiness.
- PT21

Not saying the team is without flaws, absolute pathetic game 7 and series for that matter

Didn’t you just make a point of how they haven’t won a cup in 45 years?
That’s funny.

Let’s talk about the present and near term future.

They made huge progress from ‘18-19 to this year.

Hart looks like the #1 we’ve been waiting for. Lindblom, no more needs to be said.
Myers and Sanheim hopefully learned what playoff hockey is about. There’s a couple of promising D guys in the pipeline and we could be set in goal and D for years.
The top forwards have peaked and the GM has some work to do there for sure.
- Marc D

So, summarizing then, in the present and short term future: we have young guys in D who are promising, and we could be set in goal for years, and our top forwards though are definitely over the hill?

If you simply add up the maybes and the definite negatives in the list, you will clearly arrive at the same conclusion as some of us: this is very likely not a contending club in the present or short term future.

I'll save you some time. Eichel is not available.
- MJL

Most likely true however I do get the sense Eichel is frustrated with Buffalo. Not impossible that he may want out at some point.

So, summarizing then, in the present and short term future: we have young guys in D who are promising, and we could be set in goal for years, and our top forwards though are definitely over the hill?

If you simply add up the maybes and the definite negatives in the list, you will clearly arrive at the same conclusion as some of us: this is very likely not a contending club in the present or short term future.
- PT21

That depends. We've been here before, counting Giroux out. NHL history is filled with failed playoff performances by top players only to have them rebound. No doubt that if Giroux and Voracek regress and don't rebound, that puts the team in a bad spot. What we also don't know if how fast young players will grow. I think a valid point was made that you just glossed over. They were one win away from reaching the conference finals. There's a reason why team brass won't make decisions hastily. Too much emotion involved right now.

Toronto is going to have fun trying to move him. Overpaid 60 point forward that’s already shown he’s willing to hurt his team over money. I know they’re trying to clear cap space for defense but I think they’re stuck with him for now.

Paying Tavares and Nylander has screwed them up so much lol.
- hereticpride

You think they will have a problem? He scored 60+ points the first two years, when his linemates were also very young. Then he sat out.

This year he would have been 70+. He was ok this year really in the playoffs. 4 points in 5 games and also visible.

Whats the expected contract value for a 24 year old 70+ point producer? His cap value is $6.9m.

You think they will have a problem? He scored 60+ points the first two years, when his linemates were also very young. Then he sat out.

This year he would have been 70+. He was ok this year really in the playoffs. 4 points in 5 games and also visible.

Whats the expected contract value for a 24 year old 70+ point producer? His cap value is $6.9m.
- PT21

You sound like a guy who’s not blinded by your hatred for Toronto. You’re a rare bird on hockeybuzz. Cheers

You think they will have a problem? He scored 60+ points the first two years, when his linemates were also very young. Then he sat out.

This year he would have been 70+. He was ok this year really in the playoffs. 4 points in 5 games and also visible.

Whats the expected contract value for a 24 year old 70+ point producer? His cap value is $6.9m.
- PT21

They're not going to have an issue trading Nylander if they want to move him. They are going to have an issue getting what they need though.

You sound like a guy who’s not blinded by your hatred for Toronto. You’re a rare bird on hockeybuzz. Cheers
- shack67

I am cautiously bullish on your team. I have watched a few of the Leafs games the last couple of years and I disagree that those 4 are horrible contracts.

I think this year, the layoff, then suddenly a best of 5, is too weird. Then there is the first year coach, the change from a very different and storied one in Babcock that these young guys are used to.

I think you have the advantage of knowing pretty well whats your strengths and weaknesses are. I think often groups of young, high skilled forwards struggle during their initial years in the playoffs.

You guys need your own Hedman and a few big bodies who will go to the net and mix up the style of play a bit more. More balance on the lines.

And a decent, reliable goalie of course.

All the talk about who needs to go and which big $$$ forward they need to get seems pointless to me. Is there even going to be a season? The Flyers are tight against the cap, as it is, with no relief in sight. Realistically what moves are they going to be able to make? What about the young kids in the minors? Is there going to be an AHL?

I am cautiously bullish on your team. I have watched a few of the Leafs games the last couple of years and I disagree that those 4 are horrible contracts.

I think this year, the layoff, then suddenly a best of 5, is too weird. Then there is the first year coach, the change from a very different and storied one in Babcock that these young guys are used to.

I think you have the advantage of knowing pretty well whats your strengths and weaknesses are. I think often groups of young, high skilled forwards struggle during their initial years in the playoffs.

You guys need your own Hedman and a few big bodies who will go to the net and mix up the style of play a bit more. More balance on the lines.

And a decent, reliable goalie of course.
- PT21

You should apply some of this thinking to the Flyers in your analysis.

All the talk about who needs to go and which big $$$ forward they need to get seems pointless to me. Is there even going to be a season? The Flyers are tight against the cap, as it is, with no relief in sight. Realistically what moves are they going to be able to make? What about the young kids in the minors? Is there going to be an AHL?
- Dkos

If they played in August, why couldn't they play in say November or December?

If they played in August, why couldn't they play in say November or December?
- MJL

I don’t know. Are we imagining that COVID will magically disappear? Things worked well in the bubble, but I can’t imagine theyre going to put the entire league in a bubble for the entire season. Will the AHL have a season? Colleges?

That depends. We've been here before, counting Giroux out. NHL history is filled with failed playoff performances by top players only to have them rebound. No doubt that if Giroux and Voracek regress and don't rebound, that puts the team in a bad spot. What we also don't know if how fast young players will grow. I think a valid point was made that you just glossed over. They were one win away from reaching the conference finals. There's a reason why team brass won't make decisions hastily. Too much emotion involved right now.
- MJL

No one should take any decisions right after such a debacle. What PISSES me off is this is a pattern.

Name me some post-season series in the past 20 years where a Flyers top line has delivered in the post-season according to regular season expectations? I cannot think of any.

The Primeau line in 2004 was not the top line. Primeau took cocaine or something and his play was utterly unforeseaeble. Roenick's line was the first line.

In 2010, we were lucky to have favorable matchups against the Devils and an overachieving Habs team. Carter and Richards were ok during that run, but under-performed in the finals. It was again the unexpected play of Hartnell-Briere-Leino that took us to where we went (the last of whom appeared out of nowhere and then pretty much went nowhere after the post-season).


Even if you disagree with some of this and point out issues, I think you will agree that those disagreements are exceptions: the modern day history of the Flyers forwards, which is supposed to be the strong point of this club, is regular season heroes, post-season zeroes Ottawa, Buffalo, NJ Devils, Boston (2012), Caps, Pittsburgh, Rangers, now this post-season).

Some institutional scrutiny is in order after the due interval of calmness.

EDIT: meant Boston 2011

They're not going to have an issue trading Nylander if they want to move him. They are going to have an issue getting what they need though.
- MJL

Bingo.

They painted themselves into a corner and as much as Leafs fans don’t want to hear it they really need to move Marner to get the kind of defense help they need.

You should apply some of this thinking to the Flyers in your analysis.
- MJL

I am sorry, but I am afraid I do not equate the talent level of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner as equivalent to Provorov,Myers,Sanheim, and who-ever else you want to lump there.

In the first 4, there are 3 who have HOF level talent (not saying they have the same achievements. Just talking about elite, elite talent).

I respectfully suggest you are delusional if you believe we have currently anyone who matches up in talent level to those 3.

Bingo.

They painted themselves into a corner and as much as Leafs fans don’t want to hear it they really need to move Marner to get the kind of defense help they need.
- hereticpride

Outside of Hedman and a fading McDonagh, who does Tampa have?

I don’t know. Are we imagining that COVID will magically disappear? Things worked well in the bubble, but I can’t imagine theyre going to put the entire league in a bubble for the entire season. Will the AHL have a season? Colleges?
- Dkos

Would be NHL only IMO. AHL and College prob dont have finances to do bubble

Would be NHL only IMO. AHL and College prob dont have finances to do bubble
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Is that what the NHL is planning to do? Bubble for the whole season?

Is that what the NHL is planning to do? Bubble for the whole season?
- Dkos

I believe so, prob be a shortened season too

Outside of Hedman and a fading McDonagh, who does Tampa have?
- PT21

Sergachev

They also have a goalie that Toronto could only dream about.

I don’t know. Are we imagining that COVID will magically disappear? Things worked well in the bubble, but I can’t imagine theyre going to put the entire league in a bubble for the entire season. Will the AHL have a season? Colleges?
- Dkos

We'll have to see what happens. Life has to move on.

I am sorry, but I am afraid I do not equate the talent level of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Marner as equivalent to Provorov,Myers,Sanheim, and who-ever else you want to lump there.

In the first 4, there are 3 who have HOF level talent (not saying they have the same achievements. Just talking about elite, elite talent).

I respectfully suggest you are delusional if you believe we have currently anyone who matches up in talent level to those 3.
- PT21

They have all those guys and can’t make the first round. McDavid and Draisaitl are better then every guy on our team, are they better than us? 4 guys don’t make a team, get it though your head.

who's our tarasenko? schenn? schwartz? ROR? faulk?
- 2Real

Frost way better than Schenn" HeX