The thing about Botts was that he was way too timid as a GM. I think he made a lot of solid moves around the fringes that would have been really good complimentary moves but he never made the moves that actually tip the scales for a franchise. By the time he finally sacked up and went and got Skinner (a pretty good move at the time) his seat was hot and he didn’t have a ton of options. Skinner played himself into a massive contract and Botts kind of had no choice but to give it to him because he’d done nothing else.
I think that’s why Bots would be good here working with Rutherford again. He can identify the good, under the radar talent while letting Rutherford make the big league swings for the fences. His stock as a GM candidate has plummeted after buffalo but I think he’s still a good FO executive in this league. - Victoro311
That ROR deal is what sealed his fate.
Brings back memories, when ROR was on the market from Colorado... and we were proposing Sutter, Dumoulin, and a 1st for ROR.
In hindsight that would have been the most impactful trade we could have ever made. Three number 1 centers on the same team lmao.
Yeah Doughty, Karlsson, etc are all in the same boat.
If anything, the playoffs are illustrating how important these elite offensive defenseman are.... Makar, Heiskanan, Klingberg, etc.
We are not a team built to win like the Islanders so I don't think we should try to get 6 solid defensive defenseman.
The anti-Letang-ers are the same people that hate Big Ben for throwing interceptions. Letang will be missed the moment he's gone. - YouMeAndDupuis9
I don't think Letang is going anywhere... This was a quote from Todd Rierden on NHL.com today about taking the Pen's AC opening: "Reirden said he will especially enjoy working with several players from his first Pittsburgh tenure, including defenseman Kris Letang, a two-time Stanley Cup champion (2009, 2016).
"Luckily, that's what made this situation so unique was the fact that I did have connections with some players here," Reirden said. "Definitely coming back to work with Kris was something that I looked forward to. We spent a lot of time in those infant stages of him becoming an NHL defenseman and being able to find a common ground between the unbelievable talent level that he has and staying healthy, and then being able to still contribute at both ends of the ice. He's obviously a special player"
he signed Jeff Skinner for 9 million per year - BINGO!
He did, but those owners are idiots. I doesn't sound like Botts was able to do anything without the owners riding his back. I never believed Botts was the "real GM" in Pittsburgh, but I have no idea who's pulling the strings in Buffalo. When a sh!t move is made in Pittsburgh, we know exactly who to blame. It's not the same thing in Buffalo.
He was garbage in the Habs series IMO. 9 give aways lead the team by 4 or 5. Zero take aways. Bad positional and made brutal choices with the puck. None of this is to say I think he should be traded but the more I think about it the more I think the Pens might actually be better with Petry and Domi instead of just Letang...especially if he stays like that or gets worse. I know, 4 game sample size, but the guy has had an ordeal with health and he's getting older. Petry is only a year younger but Petry looked great and has played pretty much a full season each of the last 4. - MattStrat
He needs some help. They need a second pairing guy that can help take the load off his massively broad shoulders he has for this d core. Plus he tries to win it himself when the rest of the teams poop. Which it was
Complete random thought, but does anyone think Crosby could convince Mackinnon to come play with him once his contract is up? Would be a year after the 2022 Olympic games, so hoping they have a good experience then. For as long of a shot it is, and I think he wants to build his own legacy, 3 years in the NHL is an eternity and a lot of things could change in both Colorado and Pittsburgh between now and then.
Mike Vellucci was asked which AHL players he coached may be nearing the NHL. He started with P-O Joseph: "The growth that he made this year was outstanding... His weight might not have went up but his strength did."
Ugh, this from Reirdon according to Haase and I just heard him say pretty much the same on Madden:
Todd Reirden was asked about the top four defensemen, he added this at the end:
"Jack Johnson, I think had a decent year this year. He's a nice third-pairing defenseman."
Note he defended JJ unprompted. I feel like Reirdon likes "3rd pairing defensive specialists" like JJ, but Vellucci is going to be an advocate for POJ. They'll probably both play with JJ on the right.
One of my favorite Vellucci interviews this year was when he was asked when he thought Marino might make the team said it took him one prospect game to realize Marino would never play in the AHL and compared him to Pesce and Slavin who both played only a handful of games with him. He seems to have a really good eye for defensive talent.
Complete random thought, but does anyone think Crosby could convince Mackinnon to come play with him once his contract is up? Would be a year after the 2022 Olympic games, so hoping they have a good experience then. For as long of a shot it is, and I think he wants to build his own legacy, 3 years in the NHL is an eternity and a lot of things could change in both Colorado and Pittsburgh between now and then. - abasin
Anything is possible, but I can't imagine that happening. Just way too good to be true.
Petry bounces between the top pairing and 2nd pairing. He has 3 straight years with 40 points and 10+ goals. He also shows up during the playoffs (Letang the previous 2 years has 1 assist and 0 goals in 8 games). He has a great slap shot which we saw and he also plays a very physical game and does a great job clearing the front of the net. I think if Domi and Petry were offered in a trade for Letang I personally would take that deal and wouldn't even think twice.
Montreal actually did a comparison and it showed Petry to be very close to being as offensively gifted as Weber, but a better defender in the defensive zone. He had better positioning and better overall numbers than Weber by quite a large margin.
Then look at the fact that we would be getting Domi in the deal as well, which does provide a 3rd center option.
I think Petry would be a solid option and would provide a bit of toughness and a hard slapshot on the PP which we haven't had.
Ugh, this from Reirdon according to Haase and I just heard him say pretty much the same on Madden:
Todd Reirden was asked about the top four defensemen, he added this at the end:
"Jack Johnson, I think had a decent year this year. He's a nice third-pairing defenseman."
Note he defended JJ unprompted. I feel like Reirdon likes "3rd pairing defensive specialists" like JJ, but Vellucci is going to be an advocate for POJ. They'll probably both play with JJ on the right.
One of my favorite Vellucci interviews this year was when he was asked when he thought Marino might make the team said it took him one prospect game to realize Marino would never play in the AHL and compared him to Pesce and Slavin who both played only a handful of games with him. He seems to have a really good eye for defensive talent. - Tojo.
I think Vellucci was one of the people lobbying for the Josh Maniscalco signing. So maybe they are all talking JJ up for a trade lol.
If pietrangelo isn't re-signed... I wonder if he becomes the next "big time sexy free agent" that really doesn't pan out. Erik Karlsson...Suter... Parise
Like they're still good but the contact becomes an albatross or doesn't really fit the team or put them over the top
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF Joined: 12.12.2014
Sep 2 @ 4:44 PM ET
Ugh, this from Reirdon according to Haase and I just heard him say pretty much the same on Madden:
Todd Reirden was asked about the top four defensemen, he added this at the end:
"Jack Johnson, I think had a decent year this year. He's a nice third-pairing defenseman."
Note he defended JJ unprompted. I feel like Reirdon likes "3rd pairing defensive specialists" like JJ, but Vellucci is going to be an advocate for POJ. They'll probably both play with JJ on the right.
One of my favorite Vellucci interviews this year was when he was asked when he thought Marino might make the team said it took him one prospect game to realize Marino would never play in the AHL and compared him to Pesce and Slavin who both played only a handful of games with him. He seems to have a really good eye for defensive talent. - Tojo.
Vellucci will be head couch in January/February. Book it.
Furthermore with predictions, when this happens JJ will be scratched for games in a row fot the first time
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF Joined: 12.12.2014
Sep 2 @ 4:45 PM ET
He needs some help. They need a second pairing guy that can help take the load off his massively broad shoulders he has for this d core. Plus he tries to win it himself when the rest of the teams poop. Which it was - Grinder47
That's all true. I hope Marino goes back to pre covid Marino. To my eyes he was much better then. If he does, he can be that guy on 2nd pair.
One can only hope...They're at least going to lose the Schultz excuse, interested to see what the new one/scapegoat could be. - abasin
Forwards not playing a two way game well enough. If Letang were better Johnson wouldn’t have to play as much (Letang will probably average over 28 minutes TOI). Goal tending sucking. There’s plenty of poop you can throw at the wall to make Johnson innocent when he literally scores an own goal
Forwards not playing a two way game well enough. If Letang were better Johnson wouldn’t have to play as much (Letang will probably average over 28 minutes TOI). Goal tending sucking. There’s plenty of poop you can throw at the wall to make Johnson innocent when he literally scores an own goal - Victoro311
I feel like the rumors of him not actively being shopped are somewhat bs. He's been linked to multiple trades the past year and I'm still hopeful he will be packaged in a larger deal.
Ugh, this from Reirdon according to Haase and I just heard him say pretty much the same on Madden:
Todd Reirden was asked about the top four defensemen, he added this at the end:
"Jack Johnson, I think had a decent year this year. He's a nice third-pairing defenseman."
Note he defended JJ unprompted. I feel like Reirdon likes "3rd pairing defensive specialists" like JJ, but Vellucci is going to be an advocate for POJ. They'll probably both play with JJ on the right.
One of my favorite Vellucci interviews this year was when he was asked when he thought Marino might make the team said it took him one prospect game to realize Marino would never play in the AHL and compared him to Pesce and Slavin who both played only a handful of games with him. He seems to have a really good eye for defensive talent. - Tojo.
Jack Johnson obviously has photos and videos of Rutherford and Sullivan commuting heinous criminal acts. There is no other explanation for their signing, playing, and defending him like this. It goes against all logic. Someday it will all come out. By then the windows will be shut and boarded up and we’ll be going through another rebuild.
While I admit that Letang can be frustrating to watch on the PP at times, remember that's he's been part of this PP when it's been great and when it's sucked. There is a systematic reason the failure of their PP. It's not Letang.
I think people miss about defenseman like Letang or just top players in general is that they are high-event risk-taking players. There are consequences to those risks and also consequences to not taking those risks. The difference is players like him have the ability to create those opportunities for the team to capitalize on. - Rinosaur
I agree with you to an extent but his poor puck handling and decision making is a
negative for me on the Power Play. The issue I have with Letang at this stage of his career is in the past when he botched a play he could recover and erase his mistake but those days are gone. Pen's need to go younger and clear his cap number.
Plus to me he's overrated - he's spent his entire career playing with two of the best offensive players in the world and his numbers are modest. To me scoring especially for a Dman is not the end all - Look at teams remaining in the playoff only Hedman (55) TB, and Hughes (53) Van have exceeded the 50pt mark. Every Defenseman with the exception of Hughes has a better plus-minus than Letang.
If pietrangelo isn't re-signed... I wonder if he becomes the next "big time sexy free agent" that really doesn't pan out. Erik Karlsson...Suter... Parise
Like they're still good but the contact becomes an albatross or doesn't really fit the team or put them over the top - YouMeAndDupuis9
I think the vast overpay period may have passed. Teams are realizing that having great players only counts when you can afford to fill out the roster with other talented players.
Karlsson, Doughty, Toews, Kopitar, Tavares, Marner, Matthew's, hell even McDavid where he is being paid... it just leaves zero wiggle room unless you have guys on rookie deals.
Look at the teams left, any $10M players there? Look at the last pile of Stanley cup winners, Malkin and Ovie at around $9.5M are the highest paid. McDavid won't win a cup unless cap jumps above $85M.
I think the vast overpay period may have passed. Teams are realizing that having great players only counts when you can afford to fill out the roster with other talented players.
Karlsson, Doughty, Toews, Kopitar, Tavares, Marner, Matthew's, hell even McDavid where he is being paid... it just leaves zero wiggle room unless you have guys on rookie deals.
Look at the teams left, any $10M players there? Look at the last pile of Stanley cup winners, Malkin and Ovie at around $9.5M are the highest paid. McDavid won't win a cup unless cap jumps above $85M. - MacPatty
With cap increases im pretty sure these contracts are pretty in line with the percentage of the cap that the Malkin and Ovie’s contracts took up at the time. Didn’t Ovie’s big contract set a record once upon a time? Players aren’t going to stop demanding the max when they are clearly worth the max.
Petry bounces between the top pairing and 2nd pairing. He has 3 straight years with 40 points and 10+ goals. He also shows up during the playoffs (Letang the previous 2 years has 1 assist and 0 goals in 8 games). He has a great slap shot which we saw and he also plays a very physical game and does a great job clearing the front of the net. I think if Domi and Petry were offered in a trade for Letang I personally would take that deal and wouldn't even think twice.
Montreal actually did a comparison and it showed Petry to be very close to being as offensively gifted as Weber, but a better defender in the defensive zone. He had better positioning and better overall numbers than Weber by quite a large margin.
Then look at the fact that we would be getting Domi in the deal as well, which does provide a 3rd center option.
I think Petry would be a solid option and would provide a bit of toughness and a hard slapshot on the PP which we haven't had. - 123Kid
I agree with this but I'm not as gung-ho about Domi being a lock as a stud 3C, mostly because of his defensive play. I'd still do it, though. I think Petry is very close to Letang overall. So close that I'm not sure who is better overall. Also taking contract into account, where Petry is only making $3M in base salary ($4M total). Injuries, too.
I agree with you to an extent but his poor puck handling and decision making is a
negative for me on the Power Play. The issue I have with Letang at this stage of his career is in the past when he botched a play he could recover and erase his mistake but those days are gone. Pen's need to go younger and clear his cap number.
Plus to me he's overrated - he's spent his entire career playing with two of the best offensive players in the world and his numbers are modest. To me scoring especially for a Dman is not the end all - Look at teams remaining in the playoff only Hedman (55) TB, and Hughes (53) Van have exceeded the 50pt mark. Every Defenseman with the exception of Hughes has a better plus-minus than Letang.
