Some players mature at different points - also Laf is naturally a more "flashly" player

I'm not the biggest Byfield fan but that's more about my concerns of him mentality - his abilities and natural gifts are off the charts
- AlfieisKing

I meant flashes in the sense of showing the high level of skills and tools he has at points in the tournament not in the sense of tricks like a lacrosse type goal try or shooting from between his legs. He has size, skill and speed but didn't even show a glimpse of being able to use those in the games. He was invisible all tournament which is not what you would expect from a high skilled player with his size. At the very least he could have used his size and speed and he didn't even do that.

My original post was also more about saying he was used in a limited role in the blog when he did get games as a top 6 player but played himself completely off the roster by the gold medal game.

It's not like i would be upset at all if he somehow dropped to the Wings at 4th. I would be very happy with the pick...unlike the Wings drafting Askarov at 4th or even to a lesser extent Perfetti. Personally i'm expecting the Wings to end up with Rossi/Drysdale or Sanderson.

I meant flashes in the sense of showing the high level of skills and tools he has at points in the tournament not in the sense of tricks like a lacrosse type goal try or shooting from between his legs. He has size, skill and speed but didn't even show a glimpse of being able to use those in the games. He was invisible all tournament which is not what you would expect from a high skilled player with his size. At the very least he could have used his size and speed and he didn't even do that.

My original post was also more about saying he was used in a limited role in the blog when he did get games as a top 6 player but played himself completely off the roster by the gold medal game.

It's not like i would be upset at all if he somehow dropped to the Wings at 4th. I would be very happy with the pick...unlike the Wings drafting Askarov at 4th or even to a lesser extent Perfetti. Personally i'm expecting the Wings to end up with Rossi/Drysdale or Sanderson.
- dcz28

Fair enough. I respect your opinion on Byfield. I honestly was concerned about him because he's so young and as he matures, maybe he doesn't hit his ceiling - or it takes him a while.

What is your order in the top 5/6?

I really don’t like that Sanderson coming into the equation at 5, the guys stock started rising after hockey stopped. It’s a bit concerning.

We need to remember once again that the value of dmen in this draft is high because there aren’t a lot of good ones, specifically in the 1st round.

I feel like they are valued, maybe 1-3 spots higher then their actual position in this draft.

That includes Drysdale, who I put at #4 because of his position.

This is an offensively gifted group of prospects, why should the Sens go with the guy that has arguably the least offensive production of all dmen? Because he captained US? Good character?

Good stuff sure, but we had that in Lazar and it failed

Fair enough. I respect your opinion on Byfield. I honestly was concerned about him because he's so young and as he matures, maybe he doesn't hit his ceiling - or it takes him a while.

What is your order in the top 5/6?
- AlfieisKing

Personally i would have it:

1. Lafreniere
2. Stutzle
3. Byfield
4. Rossi (like him a lot and am tempted to put him ahead of Byfield)
5. Drysdale
6. Sanderson

I am also tempted to put Sanderson ahead of Drysdale too. I just really like his game and he reminds me of a left handed Seider with maybe a bit more offensive upside and a bit faster. Also could be the fact that the Wings have Seider, Hronek, Lindstrom, Tuomisto among others that are right handed while their pool of left handed guys is weak. This probably helps me like Sanderson a bit more over Drysdale. Might also be why i have Drysdale and Sanderson in my top 6 over wingers. Wings needs influencing me a bit after the usual top 3.

Personally i would have it:

1. Lafreniere
2. Stutzle
3. Byfield
4. Rossi (like him a lot and am tempted to put him ahead of Byfield)
5. Drysdale
6. Sanderson

I am also tempted to put Sanderson ahead of Drysdale too. I just really like his game and he reminds me of a left handed Seider with maybe a bit more offensive upside and a bit faster. Also could be the fact that the Wings have Seider, Hronek, Lindstrom, Tuomisto among others that are right handed while their pool of left handed guys is weak. This probably helps me like Sanderson a bit more over Drysdale. Might also be why i have Drysdale and Sanderson in my top 6 over wingers. Wings needs influencing me a bit after the usual top 3.
- dcz28

The Cosintino video was fascinating in explaining why teams should pick certain players. In regards to him suggesting Detroit will choose Perfetti reveals the inside information about his connection to this team. I never heard about how many people that are urging Yzerman to take Perfetti. He also explains why Ottawa should pick Sanderson over Drysdale.

My concern was Detroit taking Sanderson at 4 which they may still do but I hope they take Perfetti. The Senators need a D Man at number 5, either Drysdale or Sanderson should surpass Chabot in a couple of years.

The Cosintino video was fascinating in explaining why teams should pick certain players. In regards to him suggesting Detroit will choose Perfetti reveals the inside information about his connection to this team. I never heard about how many people that are urging Yzerman to take Perfetti. He also explains why Ottawa should pick Sanderson over Drysdale.

My concern was Detroit taking Sanderson at 4 which they may still do but I hope they take Perfetti. The Senators need a D Man at number 5, either Drysdale or Sanderson should surpass Chabot in a couple of years.
- Barrykerr1

I'm really hoping he is wrong about the Wings picking Perfetti at 4. He projects as a winger in the NHL which is not a big need for the Wings. They need defense (left handed) or a 1st/2nd line center. They also need goaltending but they can trade for one given the expansion draft. Like i said, i'm hoping for Rossi/Sanderson or Drysdale at 4th.

Personally i would have it:

1. Lafreniere
2. Stutzle
3. Byfield
4. Rossi (like him a lot and am tempted to put him ahead of Byfield)
5. Drysdale
6. Sanderson

I am also tempted to put Sanderson ahead of Drysdale too. I just really like his game and he reminds me of a left handed Seider with maybe a bit more offensive upside and a bit faster. Also could be the fact that the Wings have Seider, Hronek, Lindstrom, Tuomisto among others that are right handed while their pool of left handed guys is weak. This probably helps me like Sanderson a bit more over Drysdale. Might also be why i have Drysdale and Sanderson in my top 6 over wingers. Wings needs influencing me a bit after the usual top 3.
- dcz28

Nice break down. I really like the sweeds - Holtz and Raymond. I think they have tons and tons of upside and wouldn't surprise me if 1 (possible 2) win cups and are hall of fame players by the end of their career. Then again, we could say that about at least 3-4 others in the top 10

Judging draft eligible players at the World Juniors is foolish in my opinion. So much dependent on age for the 17 year old's - even some 18 year olds. Just not the appropriate arena for draft scouting reports. It is a good arena for scouting reports of already drafted players.

I agree there should be some bridge between the NHL and Junior. So many prospects get lost in that shuffle from dominating kids to running into a wall in the NHL against the best. But at the same time, maybe that would happen regardless. No way to really know.

Jake Sanderson - I don't understand the rising of the draft rankings when there is no hockey being played. His style of play is nice for any NHL team but also makes it a bit of a risky pick in the first round if he amounts to just a 3/4 d-man. I'd rather take 2 forwards with the 3/5 picks, but lots of good reviews of Drysdale and Sanderson.

Jake Sanderson - I don't understand the rising of the draft rankings when there is no hockey being played. His style of play is nice for any NHL team but also makes it a bit of a risky pick in the first round if he amounts to just a 3/4 d-man. I'd rather take 2 forwards with the 3/5 picks, but lots of good reviews of Drysdale and Sanderson.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

My read on Sanderson is that he's become the 11th-hour darling of the "late-riser" scouts, where the rate of improvement over the course of the draft year is prized as evidence of a potentially even higher ceiling. The top-10 has already seen the likes of Raymond, Holtz, Askarov, and Lundell fall over the course of the year due (in part) to less consistent rates of improvement than some of their peers. Conversely, the likes of Stutzle, Rossi, Quinn, and Sanderson have moved up the rankings relatively quickly to take their place. Factor in that Sanderson only turned 18 in July, and it only compounds the extent to which unrealized potential is driving the value. This is also where the supposed "BPA" nonsense goes right to $hit... with some putting Sanderson as high as #3 on the basis of potential, and some putting him right outside the top-10 due to limited proven output.

My read on Sanderson is that he's become the 11th-hour darling of the "late-riser" scouts, where the rate of improvement over the course of the draft year is prized as evidence of a potentially even higher ceiling. The top-10 has already seen the likes of Raymond, Holtz, Askarov, and Lundell fall over the course of the year due (in part) to less consistent rates of improvement than some of their peers. Conversely, the likes of Stutzle, Rossi, Quinn, and Sanderson have moved up the rankings relatively quickly to take their place. Factor in that Sanderson only turned 18 in July, and it only compounds the extent to which unrealized potential is driving the value. This is also where the supposed "BPA" nonsense goes right to $hit... with some putting Sanderson as high as #3 on the basis of potential, and some putting him right outside the top-10 due to limited proven output.
- khawk

If Sanderson is being placed as high as #3, then there’s something completely wrong with the rankings being thrown out there.

I’ve been looking at these players since the beginning of the year and Sanderson, to me, never stood out from the pack. This could partially be because this years class was so offensively driven, and he shows/showed very little of it.

You also need to consider, once again that there aren’t many dmen in this class...so their value is much higher. And I think it’s blurring some opinions from who actually are the better players.

Drysdale is really the perfect example of this. He’s probably the 5th-7th best player in this specific draft, but some have him going as high as 4. If you look at the class of 2021, 5 of the top 10 players will probably be dmen. If Drysdale was part of that class I don’t think he’d even be in the top 10 (certainly not the top 5) because of how many good dmen there are. Sanderson would be outside the 15.

And Holtz stock went up, not down. Some think he could go before Raymond...World Juniors helped him a lot.

My read on Sanderson is that he's become the 11th-hour darling of the "late-riser" scouts, where the rate of improvement over the course of the draft year is prized as evidence of a potentially even higher ceiling. The top-10 has already seen the likes of Raymond, Holtz, Askarov, and Lundell fall over the course of the year due (in part) to less consistent rates of improvement than some of their peers. Conversely, the likes of Stutzle, Rossi, Quinn, and Sanderson have moved up the rankings relatively quickly to take their place. Factor in that Sanderson only turned 18 in July, and it only compounds the extent to which unrealized potential is driving the value. This is also where the supposed "BPA" nonsense goes right to $hit... with some putting Sanderson as high as #3 on the basis of potential, and some putting him right outside the top-10 due to limited proven output.
- khawk

I'd have to revisit the best player available conversation again as I am not sure how having him #3 on some lists and outside the top 10 connects to that. Doesn't that show the variance of opinion on who the actual best prospects are? Or the variance of these lists ranking based on teams picking in those slots positional needs?

This year is probably a draft rankings nightmare for scouts. Especially, when the pool of eligible players seems quite deep.

What's going on with PD? He has a lot of work to do before the next season and no rumors of anything or RFA extensions. Can he be making a blockbuster trade?

I'd have to revisit the best player available conversation again as I am not sure how having him #3 on some lists and outside the top 10 connects to that. Doesn't that show the variance of opinion on who the actual best prospects are? Or the variance of these lists ranking based on teams picking in those slots positional needs?
This year is probably a draft rankings nightmare for scouts. Especially, when the pool of eligible players seems quite deep.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

My point is that BPA implies some kind of common evaluation criteria, which really doesn't exist. Variance of opinion is a reflection of different evidence being used to formulate those opinions. If you're the type of person who needs more tangible evidence of a player's performance (eg. CHL/WJC success) upon which to base your prospect ranking, there's little chance that Sanderson cracks your top-10. If you're more swayed by things like the players' physical tools, relative draft age, mid-year improvement, and untapped potential, then you may well surprise others by having Sanderson in your top-5. Neither approach is objectively right or wrong, but they can lead to very different conclusions about who the "BPA" is among a group of prospects. And while I'd prefer that Sanderson not be their pick at #5, there's an awful lot of smoke around the idea.

And Holtz stock went up, not down. Some think he could go before Raymond...World Juniors helped him a lot.
- Trilla

Don't see much evidence of that. Even being picked ahead of Raymond wouldn't change the fact that both have lost ground in most of the major draft lists since the start of the year. TSN had Raymond/Holtz in the 3/4 slot in pre-season, and finishing significantly further down in the final rankings. Plus, there's a 2-4 ranking gap in Raymond's favor in each of the following draft lists...

Lucas Raymond
Ranked #3 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #4 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Ranked #4 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #5 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #6 by TSN/McKenzie
Ranked #9 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON

Alexander Holtz
Ranked #6 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #6 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Ranked #7 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #8 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #9 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #9 by TSN/McKenzie
Ranked #13 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON

The only major source I could find with Holtz ahead of Raymond was the CSB Final Rankings, which also had Lundell ahead of Raymond, and Sanderson ahead of Rossi/Perfetti (i.e. pretty debatable). Regardless, if Holtz winds up being picked outside of the top 6 or 7, it really won't reflect your argument that his draft stock has risen in relation to the rest of the top-10 prospects.

For those who enjoy lists, The Hockey Writers released their updated list of the top-100 NHL prospects, with the Senators having 7 players ranked (including #18 Batherson, #43 Brown, #44 Formenton, #55 Norris, #63 Bernard-Docker, #81 Thomson, #93 Pinto)... with Brannstrom having already graduated out of the rankings.
https://thehockeywriters....op-100-prospects-ranking/

The same published source also gave the Senators the #2 spot for team prospect ranking earlier in the year...
https://thehockeywriters....nhl-farm-system-rankings/

Don't see much evidence of that. Even being picked ahead of Raymond wouldn't change the fact that both have lost ground in most of the major draft lists since the start of the year. TSN had Raymond/Holtz in the 3/4 slot in pre-season, and finishing significantly further down in the final rankings. Plus, there's a 2-4 ranking gap in Raymond's favor in each of the following draft lists...

Lucas Raymond
Ranked #3 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #4 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Ranked #4 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #4 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #5 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #6 by TSN/McKenzie
Ranked #9 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON

Alexander Holtz
Ranked #6 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #6 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
Ranked #7 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #8 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #9 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #9 by TSN/McKenzie
Ranked #13 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON

The only major source I could find with Holtz ahead of Raymond was the CSB Final Rankings, which also had Lundell ahead of Raymond, and Sanderson ahead of Rossi/Perfetti (i.e. pretty debatable). Regardless, if Holtz winds up being picked outside of the top 6 or 7, it really won't reflect your argument that his draft stock has risen in relation to the rest of the top-10 prospects.
- khawk

Biggest problem though is a lot of these rankings started to change once covid hit.

After the Worlds, some were calling him the best pure goal scorer in the draft and I saw his ranking go as high as #3 (I didn’t agree with it, but the Worlds put his name on the map).

Drysdale also went as high as #3 on some of these sites, and then when no hockey was played, his stock dropped.

To St. Louis Blues
74th overall pick

To Ottawa
Alexander Steen ($3.5M salary)
26th overall pick

St. Louis resigns Alex Pietrangelo 8 years 78M - heavily front loaded

thoughts?

To St. Louis Blues
74th overall pick

To Ottawa
Alexander Steen ($3.5M salary)
26th overall pick

St. Louis resigns Alex Pietrangelo 8 years 78M - heavily front loaded

thoughts?
- AlfieisKing

I like it, but Steen's contract has no bonuses and is actually 5.75. I think Ottawa will be reticent to weaponize their cap space, not because they aren't strategic, but because they are cash poor, probably even moreso bc of Covid. I can't see them buying picks - but they might bite at proven commodities that actually up the team's value for sale. For helping a cap (and pick) strapped team I like this move myself:

OTT
rights to Chris Tierney
rights to Andreas Englund
rights to Filip Chlapik
2nd (Dallas)
3rd (Winnipeg)

ARI
Derek Stepan
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Victor Soderstrom

Gets AZ out of their serious cap hell eating 11M in salary, giving them wiggle room and two picks in rounds where they don't have them. Stepan replaces Tierney, Hjalmarsson (a lefty who plays R) lines up with TC for a year, with both traded at deadline or (more likely) walk to FA in 2021. Soderstrom the prize jewel for Ottawa.

I like it, but Steen's contract has no bonuses and is actually 5.75. I think Ottawa will be reticent to weaponize their cap space, not because they aren't strategic, but because they are cash poor, probably even moreso bc of Covid. I can't see them buying picks - but they might bite at proven commodities that actually up the team's value for sale. For helping a cap (and pick) strapped team I like this move myself:

OTT
rights to Chris Tierney
rights to Andreas Englund
rights to Filip Chlapik
2nd (Dallas)
3rd (Winnipeg)

ARI
Derek Stepan
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Victor Soderstrom

Gets AZ out of their serious cap hell eating 11M in salary, giving them wiggle room and two picks in rounds where they don't have them. Stepan replaces Tierney, Hjalmarsson (a lefty who plays R) lines up with TC for a year, with both traded at deadline or (more likely) walk to FA in 2021. Soderstrom the prize jewel for Ottawa.
- Bartacus

It says Steen is 3.5m in actual salary according to both CapFriendly and this site.

As for the pieces you mentioned, what would be our lines?

I don't think that's anywhere close for Victor Soderstrom (from the ARI's POV) - he was their top pick from last year, 11th overall. It would be like Ottawa trading Lassi Thomson for the package you are talking about

To Arizona
Chris Tierney
Bobby Ryan (20% retained by OTT)
Nikita Zaitsev

To Ottawa
Derek Stepan (5m salary, 6.5 cap)
Alex Goligoski (4m salary, 5.5 cap)
Niklas Hjalmarsson (4m salary, 5 cap)

can adjust with some picks or low level prospects

Chabot - Goligoski
Brannstrom - Hjalmarsson
Wolanin - Zub

It says Steen is 3.5m in actual salary according to both CapFriendly and this site.

As for the pieces you mentioned, what would be our lines?

I don't think that's anywhere close for Victor Soderstrom (from the ARI's POV) - he was their top pick from last year, 11th overall. It would be like Ottawa trading Lassi Thomson for the package you are talking about
- AlfieisKing

Toronto traded what ended up being the 13th overall pick just to dump a single year of Marleau's contract. Pittsburgh traded the 15th pick and a top prospect for Kasperi Kapanen. Eating 11M in salary, giving Arizona's new GM space and picks, a promising prospect in Chlapik and a solid top 10 scorer from his draft year in Tierney for a single blue chip prospect, especially in tight times when cap space should be worth more than usual - I don't see it being that unrealistic.