The Marner criticism is ridiculous.

Andersen lets in a HORRIBLE goal in every critical game. It is a long history now. There is absolutely nothing that damages or a team's chances or deflates a team more than that.
- Aetherial

Well, that and not scoring.

Barrie is a PP specialist & nothing else & never was.

It falls to WN by acclimation with everyone in blind love with the highest 3 paid. His contract is reasonable as is AM’s. The other 2 sorry.
- Nighthawk

Not in love with anyone other then AM and his hot stache...I just call it as I see it.

Sure they need to score.

That doesn't mean the goaltending was adequate. It wasn't.
- Aetherial

oh, i'm agreeing with you.....i'm saying that a goalie having really good numbers doesn't necessarily mean that they don't shoulder some of the blame if they let in a few weak and poorly timed goals.

Not in love with anyone other then AM and his hot stache...I just call it as I see it.
- Garnie

AM is the only untouchable

If Marner was 9m per he wouldn’t be in the trade convo. Big contracts get the lime light & scrutiny like it or not. Moving on down the list of contracts is ok in theory but it has to work & cannot be year after year of disappointment.

Who is ultimately accountable then & now?
- Nighthawk

Marner won't get traded.
He was on pace for 90 plus pts and 22 goals.
I expect a big season next year, playoffs - if the leafs make them, dunno we'll see.
But if he gets 100pts next year, no one will care about his contract.
This team has been a complete playoff failure, not just one or two players.

AM is the only untouchable
- Nighthawk

i think Rielly is pretty damn untouchable too....cuz without him that might be the worst defense in NHL history

dubas like many on here thought barrie would rack up the pts.
Some on here thought barrie was gonna get 70 plus points.
- Fakepartofme

yes, some did. apparently Dubas did as well. Dubas also thought that Ceci would be a reasonable replacement for Zaitsev.

neither of those two work out in any way to be even OKAY.

Barrie was playing third pairing in essentially a playoff series - with little to no power play time. Even after Babcock treated him "so badly", and he got his confidence back with Keefe.. he still ... sucked.

One possible move, that might have actually help the Leafs when the defense was banged up.. Dubas could have gone out an spent a mid-round pick and got a different stop gap defender... who could defend - and then move Barrie before you absolutely zilch both out of him and for him.

But that didn't happen. Neither did the 70 pts. Neither did the elite break out passes. Or the big shot from the blueline. So some of that is on the player for not playing up to expectations.

and some of that is on the "roster constructor" - who pretty clearing gambled and it was a large swing and miss...

so... Barrie - underachieved - and has hurt himself financially - absolutely no doubt about it.

what's Dubas done? exactly nadda since the initial risky decision.

Didn’t hear Dubas being accountable at all.
- Nighthawk

None of them are ever accountable. Culture there sucks. poop rolls downhill. Any new player that comes to save the team will simply be molded into their entitled perspective of themselves or at best be outnumbered (Muzz).

Marner won't get traded.
He was on pace for 90 plus pts and 22 goals.
I expect a big season next year, playoffs - if the leafs make them, dunno we'll see.
But if he gets 100pts next year, no one will care about his contract.
This team has been a complete playoff failure, not just one or two players.
- Fakepartofme

the only player that makes sense to move is Nylander.

he's the only player the leafs can move that will:

1. bring a good return;
2. clear enough cap space to help; and
3. not require the leafs to either retain cap or take on a contract to make salary work

He wasn’t good man, he had one scoring chance from a dangerous spot in the ice.

He was moving around well out there but not getting any chances. He’s better than just “ok” and deserves the criticism.

1 primary point in 12 games is not good for a 11 million dollar man.

He hasn’t been good in the playoffs lately. Fact.
- Santo_44

Hes been off all year.
Fack primary points, its only brought up when people are grasping at straws.
He had 3 good games out of 5.
He needs to be better.

History of the scape goat...

Gardiner (gone)
Kadri/Babcock (both gone)
Freddie/D are they all going?

Who has stayed through it all & is bulletproof?

Matthews (earned)
Marner (earned)
Reilly (earned)
Anyone else? Nope

Who is the captain?
Earned? Nope

Discuss or add as you wish

i think Rielly is pretty damn untouchable too....cuz without him that might be the worst defense in NHL history
- sensarmy_11

Good point

yes, some did. apparently Dubas did as well. Dubas also thought that Ceci would be a reasonable replacement for Zaitsev.

neither of those two work out in any way to be even OKAY.

Barrie was playing third pairing in essentially a playoff series - with little to no power play time. Even after Babcock treated him "so badly", and he got his confidence back with Keefe.. he still ... sucked.

One possible move, that might have actually help the Leafs when the defense was banged up.. Dubas could have gone out an spent a mid-round pick and got a different stop gap defender... who could defend - and then move Barrie before you absolutely zilch both out of him and for him.

But that didn't happen. Neither did the 70 pts. Neither did the elite break out passes. Or the big shot from the blueline. So some of that is on the player for not playing up to expectations.

and some of that is on the "roster constructor" - who pretty clearing gambled and it was a large swing and miss...

so... Barrie - underachieved - and has hurt himself financially - absolutely no doubt about it.

what's Dubas done? exactly nadda since the initial risky decision.
- BorjeFan4Ever

well duby has picked up two more euros, hopefully they do well.
Let's see how much he signs mickey for.
Better not be over 2.5 per

Well, that and not scoring.
- Fakepartofme

Yeah but we have the best 5v5 goal scorer to ever lace em up don't we.

Marner has a Better playoff PPG and +/- than Matthews.
Last year Marner had to face the Bruins top line... Matthews didn't.
Marner also kills penalties. Matthews doesn't.
Virtually identical PPG this past season, despite Marner recovering from injury
Didn't Marner lead the team in scoring the two years before.
Was willing to sign longer term at a little less than Matthews

I think Matthews is going to continue to get better and I liked that he showed more heart and a bit more physicality this off-season. He was the Leafs best forward.

I just don't get how Marner absorbs all the blame and has to go and Matthews is immune to any blame or criticism at all times.

Tampa could barely score either... but their goalie didn't whiff the game away.

History of the scape goat...

Gardiner (gone)
Kadri/Babcock (both gone)
Freddie/D are they all going?

Who has stayed through it all & is bulletproof?

Matthews (earned)
Marner (earned)
Reilly (earned)
Anyone else? Nope

Who is the captain?
Earned? Nope

Discuss or add as you wish
- Nighthawk

Muzz Lightyear

History of the scape goat...

Gardiner (gone)
Kadri/Babcock (both gone)
Freddie/D are they all going?

Who has stayed through it all & is bulletproof?

Matthews (earned)
Marner (earned)
Reilly (earned)
Anyone else? Nope

Who is the captain?
Earned? Nope

Discuss or add as you wish
- Nighthawk

Jt has played well, but needs to be better.

Marner won't get traded.
He was on pace for 90 plus pts and 22 goals.
I expect a big season next year, playoffs - if the leafs make them, dunno we'll see.
But if he gets 100pts next year, no one will care about his contract.
This team has been a complete playoff failure, not just one or two players.
- Fakepartofme

I’ve never stated any issues with MM nor knock his talent or effort. I just toss it out there he could fetch the needed pieces. Doesn't mean trade him.

History of the scape goat...

Gardiner (gone)
Kadri/Babcock (both gone)
Freddie/D are they all going?

Who has stayed through it all & is bulletproof?

Matthews (earned)
Marner (earned)
Reilly (earned)
Anyone else? Nope

Who is the captain?
Earned? Nope

Discuss or add as you wish
- Nighthawk

Yeah Nylander is the one who needs to go. Would be good if they didn't sign Tavares. Would have had our first still AND would have been a serious player for Pietrangelo. Unfortunately, Tavares has a NTC and would be difficult to move anyway with this cap situation.

Yeah but we have the best 5v5 goal scorer to ever lace em up don't we.

Marner has a Better playoff PPG and +/- than Matthews.
Last year Marner had to face the Bruins top line... Matthews didn't.
Marner also kills penalties. Matthews doesn't.
Virtually identical PPG this past season, despite Marner recovering from injury
Didn't Marner lead the team in scoring the two years before.
Was willing to sign longer term at a little less than Matthews

I think Matthews is going to continue to get better and I liked that he showed more heart and a bit more physicality this off-season. He was the Leafs best forward.

I just don't get how Marner absorbs all the blame and has to go and Matthews is immune to any blame or criticism at all times.

Tampa could barely score either... but their goalie didn't whiff the game away.
- Aetherial

people need a scapegoat and marner didn't play up to his 10.8.
So if he wants big money, hes gotta play and take criticism when needed.
Am had a really good qualifier.

None of them are ever accountable. Culture there sucks. poop rolls downhill. Any new player that comes to save the team will simply be molded into their entitled perspective of themselves or at best be outnumbered (Muzz).
- aminnes

Country club management breeds a Country club team.

Jt has played well, but needs to be better.
- Fakepartofme

I don't like him as a captain.

I don't know that that is his fault though. I think Marner and Matthews believe that is their room... and it probably should have been.

Matthews should have been given the C. I said that all along, even after underpants-gate.

Well, that and not scoring.
- Fakepartofme

Freddy should’ve scored too. 🤷‍♂️

I’ve never stated any issues with MM nor knock his talent or effort. I just toss it out there he could fetch the needed pieces. Doesn't mean trade him.
- Nighthawk

i don't care who gets traded, trade am if it makes the team better. Of course i doubt it would.
Keep Jt cause i bought a jt jersey.
But they trade anyone, i dont care, fack em all.
Just get better. Dont get how its done or who goes.

I don't like him as a captain.

I don't know that that is his fault though. I think Marner and Matthews believe that is their room... and it probably should have been.

Matthews should have been given the C. I said that all along, even after underpants-gate.
- Aetherial

there was NO WAY Matthews could be given the C right after that harassment poop in Arizona.

the only logical choice for Captain was Rielly