murray was told to win after the 2015 draft now which was why he got ror, kane and lehner

he couldn't draft for sh!t or build a farm club

but they go from rebuild mode, to win now as soon as it looks like they are going to get eichel or mcdavid


this is a fact



when they hired botts, he said they need to develop talent at all three levels, echl, ahl and big club and the results will trickle up

they signed off on it


once we got dahlin, they expected to win right awy after a year, hence the trade for miller, vesey and grabbing johansson

the owners agree on one thing, and expect a 180 just because we drafted eichel


botts got the echl team on track and rochester

looks like he drafted well also


my gut says if his hand was not forced to rush it, in 2020-21 season we would be a lot better off then we are now again thanks to the owners



this is the worst franchise since kim and terry bought the team and I have no clue how some people can put them blameless year after year after year after year after year
- homiedclown

Botterill was making those kind of trades during his entire tenure - Blow boy, scandalous, Wilson, Sheary.

I'm not saying that the Pegulas should be held harmless, but Botterill did Botterill things during his entire tenure. It wasn't like the switch flipped and he suddenly became win now.

He had middled it since day 1 - exhibit A: 6 draft picks per draft each of his 3 years and this year would have been 4. Rochester was buoyed by pricy vets.

The past 2 GMs aren't victims. He sucked. Murray sucked. Hopefully Adams doesn't suck.

Some additional details on Ilya Mikheyev that back him being a good addition (not at $4M, but in a trade with the Leafs at a lower salary, perhaps in a deal that would include Kerfoot, his most common line mate, as well?):

- Averaged almost 2 minutes per game of penalty kill time (while the Leafs were 21st overall on the penalty kill compared to the Sabres at 30th, at least it means he was trusted to contribute on the PK)

- He had 2 empty net goals, which means he was trusted on the ice with a lead at the end of a game

- Even Strength Goals per 60 rank = 187 out of 375 players who had at least 400 minutes (6 EV goals)
- Even Strength Primary Assists per 60 rank = 39th out of 375 players who had at least 400 minutes (8 primary assists)
- Even Strength Secondary Assists per 60 rank = 11th out of 375 players who had at least 400 minutes (7 secondary assists)
- Even Strength Total Points per 60 rank = 40th out of 375 players who had at least 400 minutes (21 total points)

I wouldn't go the offer sheet route, but I wonder if the Leafs would be interested in a 2 for 1 swap, such as Mikheyev and Kerfoot for an RHD, as that would trim salary for them (say Mikheyev at $3M and Kerfoot is at $3.5M for the next 3 seasons) and fill a need with them losing both Ceci and Barrie who are both RHD's?

Looking at the per 60 rates for Kerfoot, Johnsson, and Kapanen, I would try and trade for Mikheyev only if the Leafs are looking to shed his potential upcoming salary.
- kingcong39

Good stuff Kong!

My impression from the guys at The Athletic is Dubas and the rest of the front office love Mikheyev, and believe the others are more at risk of being moved.

Hopefully Adams doesn't suck.
- jcragcrumple

did he fix the boards at the harbor center before he got promoted or did he leave it for the next guy?


I think the last thing this team needed was a yes man w/o interviewing people outside the organization

skinner did it so who knows


IMO it's not an assumption to make though
- homiedclown

I understand that, I am just going of what people are saying. I hope I am wrong, cause some of the players mentioned will have to waive to come here.

did he fix the boards at the harbor center before he got promoted or did he leave it for the next guy?


I think the last thing this team needed was a yes man w/o interviewing people outside the organization
- homiedclown

He absolutely might suck ass as much as the last two, but both of them deserved to be fired.

I'm willing to give him a shot. We'll know by Dec. 1 if he has a good vision and can execute it

Yeah, can agree that they both blew, but some of those trades wouldn't have been made if there would have been anything in the system to fill spots.

Yeah, can agree that they both blew, but some of those trades wouldn't have been made if there would have been anything in the system to fill spots.
- Buff36

He could have played Dlo, Fasching, Smith, Bailey, Fedun and Guhle and got the same or better results.

He sucked.

He absolutely might suck ass as much as the last two, but both of them deserved to be fired.

I'm willing to give him a shot. We'll know by Dec. 1 if he has a good vision and can execute it
- jcragcrumple

Adams is definitely the yes man. Look at how they pranced him around buffalo today in pictures and giving away from merch

Botterill was making those kind of trades during his entire tenure - Blow boy, scandalous, Wilson, Sheary.

I'm not saying that the Pegulas should be held harmless, but Botterill did Botterill things during his entire tenure. It wasn't like the switch flipped and he suddenly became win now.

He had middled it since day 1 - exhibit A: 6 draft picks per draft each of his 3 years and this year would have been 4. Rochester was buoyed by pricy vets.

The past 2 GMs aren't victims. He sucked. Murray sucked. Hopefully Adams doesn't suck.
- jcragcrumple

Both gms weren’t given enough time. Botts cleared the dead money with players like bogoasian Sobotka etc. He cleaned it up

This off season. We would’ve seen his play in action

Come on man. His goals are all around the net. He’s not sniping from 30 feet out.

Can we at least be honest?
- sbroads24

No, honesty about skinner wouldnt correlate with the hate

Dude has only scored less than 20 three times. One of those times was in 42 games. One of those times was in 59 games(this season)

Had the season not been shortened he may have hit 20 still. All while playing without eichel, shooting 3% under his career average and hitting the post 20 times

Hes going to make alot of people eat their poop next year

Both gms weren’t given enough time. Botts cleared the dead money with players like bogoasian Sobotka etc. He cleaned it up

This off season. We would’ve seen his play in action
- Sabretooth9

Signing Vesey for 3 years and trading for Bjugstad.

Botterill as a GM was like Derek Carr throwing 3 yard slants and getting his receivers lit up. He was dinking and dunking his way to the most bland, mediocre product possible.

Good riddance. He was a straight up garbage GM who thought Frolik was a good idea.

Thanks for the cap overage, Jason. Happy trails

He could have played Dlo, Fasching, Smith, Bailey, Fedun and Guhle and got the same or better results.

He sucked.
- jcragcrumple

Ok, so players that did nothing with there chances, well liked DLo, to players that had a track record of some success. And Guhle really didn't go full time in the organization until 17-18, he played a few games in 16-17 after his junior season was over.

Ok, so players that did nothing with there chances, well liked DLo, to players that had a track record of some success. And Guhle really didn't go full time in the organization until 18-19, he played a few games in 17-18 after his junior season was over.
- Buff36

Those poopty players could have been just as poopty as the poopty players he brought it via trade.

He wasted his time and resources tracking down mediocre talent. He couldn't evaluate forwards worth a damn and he preferred trading with "teams he could trust" aka people who wouldn't try to take advantage of him because he sucked.

I have no idea why anyone would want to continue to defend him. He was a complete disaster.

I guess he's the new "raw deal" winner.

Cap guru with a cap overage. Nuff said

Good stuff Kong!

My impression from the guys at The Athletic is Dubas and the rest of the front office love Mikheyev, and believe the others are more at risk of being moved.
- IonSabres

I agree. The leafs want to resign Mikheyev but if Adams could land him and Kerfoot for Risto I’d rather see it as a sign and trade. Before this even gets to more than a thought the leafs really need to move out some big coin. The guy who will be offered around will be Nylander but the guy most teams will ask about is Marner.
Pietrangelo to the leafs is hard to imagine as per the rumour chart but a Risto trade as a plan B would make them better

Those poopty players could have been just as poopty as the poopty players he brought it via trade.

He wasted his time and resources tracking down mediocre talent. He couldn't evaluate forwards worth a damn and he preferred trading with "teams he could trust" aka people who wouldn't try to take advantage of him because he sucked.

I have no idea why anyone would want to continue to defend him. He was a complete disaster.

I guess he's the new "raw deal" winner.

Cap guru with a cap overage. Nuff said
- jcragcrumple

poopty players that were drafted or traded for by the poopty GM before him, not trying to defend him, did a poopty job just like the one before him, one poopty hand washed the other.

Deion Sanders went to Barstool? That should be a fun marriage.

No, honesty about skinner wouldnt correlate with the hate

Dude has only scored less than 20 three times. One of those times was in 42 games. One of those times was in 59 games(this season)

Had the season not been shortened he may have hit 20 still. All while playing without eichel, shooting 3% under his career average and hitting the post 20 times

Hes going to make alot of people eat their poop next year
- ieetbred

18 goals in 90 games and if he was such a battler he would score on the PP. How's your sh*t tasting now?

Because all you guys want hockey minds in the room to help them for (frank) sake thats what they have been doing and all those snakes Double cross them and they can't trust anybody now

Let them do their own thing for the first time before you judge them
- gerbe75pts

IF it is true that Kerry and Tim are listening to the fans for operational decidionz, then that in and of itself proves they know zilch about running a hockey organization, as it means they don't have a clear definition of what their club should be. Rather, it is tantamount to hey we don't know what we are doing so let's do what the fans want.

Pathetic.

Now that we have confirmed they are clueless, you want us to have faith in them throwing everybody out , closing the door and masterminding the whole operation themselves.

Brilliant!

Lol, that sounds like a great game plan!

If he wasn't here you all be female doging about him on another team..

He's not a problem he's fine
- gerbe75pts

I thought they do what the fans wanted?
Nobody on this board wanted 8 x$9, NOBODY.
I personally was at 5 x $8 tops.

That take is rated FALSE.

Both gms weren’t given enough time. Botts cleared the dead money with players like bogoasian Sobotka etc. He cleaned it up

This off season. We would’ve seen his play in action
- Sabretooth9

? What?

Go back and look at his track record with trades, he brought in a ton of "dead" money with old vets who were friggin useless?
He created his own Cap nightmare he hud behind.

Adams is definitely the yes man. Look at how they pranced him around buffalo today in pictures and giving away from merch
- Sabretooth9

That's actually a bit part of their job description, getting out in the community, doing public appearances, public speaking, etc.

18 goals in 90 games and if he was such a battler he would score on the PP. How's your sh*t tasting now?
- GilPerreault11

Oh sorry I wasnt aware being option number 5 on the PP, or not getting 1PP time at all makes him soft

I must not sit close enough to the TV

18 goals in 90 games and if he was such a battler he would score on the PP. How's your sh*t tasting now?
- GilPerreault11

-50% High Danger shots
-20% Medium Danger shots
+ 30% Low Danger shots.

His poop probably tastes better than yours you are slinging around.

Oh sorry I wasnt aware being option number 5 on the PP, or not getting 1PP time at all makes him soft

I must not sit close enough to the TV
- ieetbred

Or sitting in the 100's

-50% High Danger shots
-20% Medium Danger shots
+ 30% Low Danger shots.

His poop probably tastes better than yours you are slinging around.
- IonSabres

Skinner's goals/game in Carolina was 0.35 over eight years. In 2+ years for the Sabres it's...

0.38