He is a minus player. Even on that team... Terrible deal. JMO
- bixll

I feel you, but you be the guy who doesn't sign the 80-90 point defenseman.

I don’t have a problem with the deal. He’s a star and got paid.

I’m starting to come around to the trade idea though for two reasons.

The first is style. He and Nylander and Kapanen play a flow game (Mike Johnson as talking about this yesterday) that the CBJ clogging up approach really slows down. You need more of a start and stop, almost station to station approach as part of your game. JT gives you that, Hyman gives that and so does Robertson even though he is small and fast. A Marner out, Robertson in even though it’s a big loss in capacity right now shifts the style and presumably brings a big upgrade on defence.

The second reason is character. I’m not saying anything about Marner’s character. I obviously don’t know anything about that except that his mom is a flossy thrash. But getting to the edge but not over has to say something about the team makeup and something has to change and a big piece has to change. Marner is a big piece.

You all know I’m right but will feel the need to argue anyway. It’s ok. I get it.
- Canada Cup

isnt this what I was saying? trade either Marner or JT. either one. i think Santo said it as well, but i may be mistaken on that point.

I never liked the Marner deal.

The Leafs did it because they wanted to keep a star winger, who wouldn’t?

Much of his contract is already paid off and if he’s made available teams will line up for that, especially budget teams.

And next season all but a handful of teams will
Be budget teams.
- Santo_44

I don't doubt what you're saying, but I think there needs to be more respect for the limitations budget teams will be in, as they still have to face a cap in an even more stringent uncertain market.

To me this means less teams outright dying to full on take cap dollars with real dollars... And more teams in those scenarios having to trade off near even cap dollars to take on less real dollars. Perhaps this equates to better returns due to less cap being eaten?

I don't know. I know a strange market with a flatlined cap isn't going to result in the status quo on that front. Not so cut and dry.

isnt this what I was saying? trade either Marner or JT. either one. i think Santo said it as well, but i may be mistaken on that point.
- MisterBrown

Tavares has a no-trade. Bye Marner.

The Leafs are run by AHL calibre people.
- aminnes

how soon we forget what poop we sat through.
Shanny took over and tore it down and got the team back to the playoffs and in the right direction.

the previous 3 groups got 1 playoff round in 10 years

isnt this what I was saying? trade either Marner or JT. either one. i think Santo said it as well, but i may be mistaken on that point.
- MisterBrown

Wow. Trade Marner or Nylander. Great insight, Trump.

how soon we forget what poop we sat through.
Shanny took over and tore it down and got the team back to the playoffs and in the right direction.

the previous 3 groups got 1 playoff round in 10 years
- senstroll

Wow. Trade Marner or Nylander. Great insight, Trump.
- Canada Cup

The Spanish flu ended WW2.

Wow. Trade Marner or Nylander. Great insight, Trump.
- Canada Cup

Here’s a fresh take. Trade them both.

The Spanish flu ended WW2.
- golfingsince

The 1918 flu (from ‘gina)

I never liked the Marner deal.

The Leafs did it because they wanted to keep a star winger, who wouldn’t?

Much of his contract is already paid off and if he’s made available teams will line up for that, especially budget teams.

And next season all but a handful of teams will
Be budget teams.
- Santo_44

that's a pretty good point. money for the rest of the deal is reasonable. for 20-21, it's a steal for a team that is expecting to be bleeding money.

Here’s a fresh take. Trade them both.
- Steven_Seagull

I like your analysis

how soon we forget what poop we sat through.
Shanny took over and tore it down and got the team back to the playoffs and in the right direction.

the previous 3 groups got 1 playoff round in 10 years
- senstroll

Being slightly better than where they were 10 years ago isn't exciting. And this year was a regression.

I specifically said I don't believe he should be fired - but he does need to shape the roster differently.

And yes I would agree that every GM makes mistakes. Dubas made about 6-7 moves this past season... most of those were not good, and the bigger the move generally the worse they were.

If he isn't on notice already - he should be.
- BorjeFan4Ever

If I'm Shanahan, my end of the year meeting is going something like okay, you've had two years to survey this group from top to bottom, get a feel for the league flow, the market... Everything. There's been pros and cons (because despite what anyone says it hasn't all been bad). We're at a point where it's time to execute everything you've taken so far into a functional direction... And one bit of advice, the small speedy one dimensional approach isn't that functional direction. Good luck because the clock just hit 11:30.🤷‍♂️

Wow. Trade Marner or Nylander. Great insight, Trump.
- Canada Cup

Nylander is a keeper. he is earning his deal and imo, played well and went to the dirty areas in the series with the BJs. Not Marner he just skated around a lot.

Marner should be the one to go. Thanks for agreeing.

JT has the full NMC. so keep him as your 2C (although i think he'd leave if the org wanted him to), train Nylander in the regular season to play C as well so if you need JT and Matthews on one line you can do it.

Being slightly better than where they were 10 years ago isn't exciting. And this year was a regression.
- aminnes

yep.

didn't even make the playoffs this year.

a step backwards.

that's a pretty good point. money for the rest of the deal is reasonable. for 20-21, it's a steal for a team that is expecting to be bleeding money.
- Tumbleweed

It's still a massive cap hit. I mean if a team is trying to reach the floor it's great but if they have a bunch of young talent on ELC's then it can still hinder them moving forward.

yep.

didn't even make the playoffs this year.

a step backwards.
- Tumbleweed

Tampa missed the playoffs in 2017. It happens.

I never liked the Marner deal.

The Leafs did it because they wanted to keep a star winger, who wouldn’t?

Much of his contract is already paid off and if he’s made available teams will line up for that, especially budget teams.

And next season all but a handful of teams will
Be budget teams.
- Santo_44

I never like the deal, because I know how Toronto fans are.

It was inevitable that they (we) would turn against him.

FFS, we turned against Hal Gill because he wasn't Paul Coffey.

Hal Gill was making just over $2 million a year for the Leafs, and we hated him.

Prior to this year wasn't Marner the leading scorer on the Leafs? I also thought he was far from the worst of the forwards on the Leafs this past series. He also wants to be here. We can't say that about all of them. He is also a pretty good PK guy, in a league increasingly more influenced by special teams.

Sorry, but he is the last guy I would trade, well ok, 1/1A with Matthews.

It is Nylander who has to go. Dropping salary, getting rid of another player like Johnsson, who is completely redundant now, and not re-signing Andersucks, means they can re-up Rielly, maybe Hyman, and afford a defense upgrade.

I never like the deal, because I know how Toronto fans are.

It was inevitable that they (we) would turn against him.

FFS, we turned against Hal Gill because he wasn't Paul Coffey.

Hal Gill was making just over $2 million a year for the Leafs, and we hated him.
- Atomic Wedgie

Larry Murphy was making $3 million and Leaf fans thought he was robbing a bank.

It's still a massive cap hit. I mean if a team is trying to reach the floor it's great but if they have a bunch of young talent on ELC's then it can still hinder them moving forward.
- golfingsince

A team trying to stay at the lower end, and be competitive would be all over that I would think.

Being slightly better than where they were 10 years ago isn't exciting. And this year was a regression.
- aminnes

10 years ago they finished 15th out of 15 teams in the conference

If I'm Shanahan, my end of the year meeting is going something like okay, you've had two years to survey this group from top to bottom, get a feel for the league flow, the market... Everything. There's been pros and cons (because despite what anyone says it hasn't all been bad). We're at a point where it's time to execute everything you've taken so far into a functional direction... And one bit of advice, the small speedy one dimensional approach isn't that functional direction. Good luck because the clock just hit 11:30.🤷‍♂️
- joel878

they lost against a (frank)ing zamboni driver.
that says it all about this season.

Prior to this year wasn't Marner the leading scorer on the Leafs? I also thought he was far from the worst of the forwards on the Leafs this past series. He also wants to be here. We can't say that about all of them. He is also a pretty good PK guy, in a league increasingly more influenced by special teams.

Sorry, but he is the last guy I would trade, well ok, 1/1A with Matthews.

It is Nylander who has to go. Dropping salary, getting rid of another player like Johnsson, who is completely redundant now, and not re-signing Andersucks, means they can re-up Rielly, maybe Hyman, and afford a defense upgrade.
- Aetherial

Johnson for Kinkaid and Weal. You get a fast 4th line player and an improvement in net