just for fun, lets look at past "deep drafts"
2015 was pretty good.

Sens three slots were. D.Strome, Hanifin and Ilya Samsonov
Jersey - Provorov, Chabot and Joel Eriksson Ek

If you go to the deepest draft 2003

Sens - Nathan Horton, Thomas Vanek and Marc-Antoine Pouliot
Jersey - Ryan Suter, Eric Fehr and Brent Burns

some good players in there, but I think stuff gets over hyped a little
- senstroll

Deep draft refers to the fact there are strong players available after 10. Teams with huge cap pressures (eg., Tampa) needing to sign their own UFA and RFA players cannot take back salary in any deal. A first round draft pick, especially this year) is a negotiable asset that meets the needs of cap pressured teams.

just for fun, lets look at past "deep drafts"
2015 was pretty good.

Sens three slots were. D.Strome, Hanifin and Ilya Samsonov
Jersey - Provorov, Chabot and Joel Eriksson Ek

If you go to the deepest draft 2003

Sens - Nathan Horton, Thomas Vanek and Marc-Antoine Pouliot
Jersey - Ryan Suter, Eric Fehr and Brent Burns

some good players in there, but I think stuff gets over hyped a little
- senstroll

you just outlined NJ as getting two number 1 Dmen in the same draft Suter/ Burns
and Provorov/ Chabot, how's that overhyped???

you outlined the Sens getting two legit 1st line players Horton/ Vanek and a number 1 goaler and top 4 dman (behind a norris winner Giordano) in the two separate drafts...

You guys do remember we were the worst team in the league 4 years ago right?

(frank)ing hell. There are a lot of retards here who think they are automatically the smartest person (Doctor) in the room.

Torts was saying people like you know nothing about hockey.
- Santo_44

You guys do remember we were the worst team in the league 5 years ago right?

(frank)ing hell. There are a lot of retards here who think they are automatically the smartest person (Doctor) in the room.
- Leafs43

I think most of the comments are pretty well reasoned. Perhaps there are some hyped emotions.

But, the debate focus is simple. Are we going forward or backwards in the rebuild trend measure from 5 years ago?

Correct answer: Great growth in years 1, 2 and 3. Some levelling off in years 4 and 5.

This is fixable. So, what are the obvious (as opposed to dramatic) changes needed?

Easy there. "Atomic" will say you're trolling the board. I was saying pretty much the same thing and got attacked.

Shanahan should go. Dubas should go.

Dubas should go, not just for the on-ice product lacking finish, but because based on your reasoning which I agree with and added to:
1. He claimed there's nothing wrong with the 'D',
2. Overpays players to hamstring himself (ie: Marner, Snake, the 3rd/ 4th line guys you mentioned above)
3. Thinks culture doesn't exist, not sure the exact comment, but you reminded me of the issue
4. Thinks that physicality is a relic of hockey past
5. Didn't fix the goaler situation (get a better backup/ get a better goaler coach to fix Andersen's post hugging)
6. wears funny glasses
7. ended the rebuild too early and has traded away 1st round picks. (no he didn't need to ship a 1st to get rid of marleau. he could have kept marleau and not overpaid other players)

Not sure why people are so in love with Shanahan. The guy is a joke as an exec. had no experience before being hired from player safety. He hasn't won anything as a leaf (some amoeba posted he won stanley cups, yeah, so did hundreds of other guys, i don't see anyone clamoring to give them the top job). Shanahan hired Lou/ hired Babcock/ hired Dubas and what's happened? a big egg. they've won literally zero and embarrassed themselves in the process. Should've just kept Burkie around. At least he would have had a tough team out there instead of these water bugs (looking at marner with whatever that fungus is on his chin)...
- MisterBrown

Should've kept Burkie around? What are you talking about? He basically ran the Leafs right into the ground. His Leafs teams weren't tough. You're praising Burke and ripping Shanny? You're a joke.

Shanny is the one who turned the Leafs around. Just because the Leafs haven't yet succeeded in the playoffs doesn't mean he hasn't done a good job. This Leafs team was abysmal before Shanny arrived. They've built through the draft. There's still plenty of time for the Leafs to succeed in the playoffs.

I think most of the comments are pretty well reasoned. Perhaps there are some hyped emotions.

But, the debate focus is simple. Are we going forward or backwards in the rebuild trend measure from 5 years ago?

Correct answer: Great growth in years 1, 2 and 3. Some levelling off in years 4 and 5.

This is fixable. So, what are the obvious (as opposed to dramatic) changes needed?
- spatso

Definitely new fans

Should've kept Burkie around? What are you talking about? He basically ran the Leafs right into the ground. His Leafs teams weren't tough. You're praising Burke and ripping Shanny? You're a joke.

Shanny is the one who turned the Leafs around. Just because the Leafs haven't yet succeeded in the playoffs doesn't mean he hasn't done a good job.
- gergeswillems

Leafs were coming off a season where they were the worst team in the league.

Four years ago.

you just outlined NJ as getting two number 1 Dmen in the same draft Suter/ Burns
and Provorov/ Chabot, how's that overhyped???

you outlined the Sens getting two legit 1st line players Horton/ Vanek and a number 1 goaler and top 4 dman (behind a norris winner Giordano) in the two separate drafts...
- MisterBrown

yes taking to 2 best draft in the past 20 years.
Maybe its like 2010 and you end up with Gudbranson, Niederreiter and Tinordi
or 2004 Barker, Wheeler and Lukas Kaspar

Just some perspective. maybe its like those 2 drafts, hard to say.

I think most of the comments are pretty well reasoned. Perhaps there are some hyped emotions.

But, the debate focus is simple. Are we going forward or backwards in the rebuild trend measure from 5 years ago?

Correct answer: Great growth in years 1, 2 and 3. Some levelling off in years 4 and 5.

This is fixable. So, what are the obvious (as opposed to dramatic) changes needed?
- spatso

I actually should have said 4 years. We were coming off the worst place finish 4 years ago.

Anyway, defense needs to be improved. Everyone knows this. Marincin should never play a playoff game for this team again.

so as the Leafs, do you take:

McDavid + Neal

for

Matthews + Nylander

?
- MaximusAurelius

In a heartbeat

So New Zealand is going back into lock down. 1 family has tested positive.
im curious how that happens with how they are controlling anything that comes into the country

Leafs were coming off a season where they were the worst team in the league.

Four years ago.
- Leafs43

I'd love for my team to be in the position the Leafs are in right now. I always found when I was watching those powerhouse Red Wings teams of the 90s and 2000s that I'd nitpick every little flaw.

Not realizing that most other teams would love to have the Red Wings problems. It's easy to be frustrated as a Leafs fan right now. But the core is young. The window is far from closed. I don't think they're that far away to be honest.

So New Zealand is going back into lock down. 1 family has tested positive.
im curious how that happens with how they are controlling anything that comes into the country
- senstroll

sneaky people

Easy there. "Atomic" will say you're trolling the board. I was saying pretty much the same thing and got attacked.

Shanahan should go. Dubas should go.

Dubas should go, not just for the on-ice product lacking finish, but because based on your reasoning which I agree with and added to:
1. He claimed there's nothing wrong with the 'D',
2. Overpays players to hamstring himself (ie: Marner, Snake, the 3rd/ 4th line guys you mentioned above)
3. Thinks culture doesn't exist, not sure the exact comment, but you reminded me of the issue
4. Thinks that physicality is a relic of hockey past
5. Didn't fix the goaler situation (get a better backup/ get a better goaler coach to fix Andersen's post hugging)
6. wears funny glasses
7. ended the rebuild too early and has traded away 1st round picks. (no he didn't need to ship a 1st to get rid of marleau. he could have kept marleau and not overpaid other players)

Not sure why people are so in love with Shanahan. The guy is a joke as an exec. had no experience before being hired from player safety. He hasn't won anything as a leaf (some amoeba posted he won stanley cups, yeah, so did hundreds of other guys, i don't see anyone clamoring to give them the top job). Shanahan hired Lou/ hired Babcock/ hired Dubas and what's happened? a big egg. they've won literally zero and embarrassed themselves in the process. Should've just kept Burkie around. At least he would have had a tough team out there instead of these water bugs (looking at marner with whatever that fungus is on his chin)...
- MisterBrown

So burke who immediately traded away 2 picks, which were #2 (seguin) and #8 (Hamilton) is cool beans....but Dubas had to correct a mistake...and thats no good.

like I said yesterday, you have giant reactionary posts with little consistency. Its hard to take these posts seriously

I actually should have said 4 years. We were coming off the worst place finish 4 years ago.

Anyway, defense needs to be improved. Everyone knows this. Marincin should never play a playoff game for this team again.
- Leafs43

Barrie and Ceci were worse than Marincin. That's telling.

So burke who immediately traded away 2 picks, which were #2 (seguin) and #8 (Hamilton) is cool beans....but Dubas had to correct a mistake...and thats no good.

like I said yesterday, you have giant reactionary posts with little consistency. Its hard to take these posts seriously
- senstroll

Anyone figure out who this guy is yet?

Barrie and Ceci were worse than Marincin. That's telling.
- MaximusAurelius

True Story

I'd love for my team to be in the position the Leafs are in right now. I always found when I was watching those powerhouse Red Wings teams of the 90s and 2000s that I'd nitpick every little flaw.

Not realizing that most other teams would love to have the Red Wings problems. It's easy to be frustrated as a Leafs fan right now. But the core is young. The window is far from closed. I don't think they're that far away to be honest.
- gergeswillems

I'm not happy with the team or the recent failures either.

But the dramatics are annoying. "Blow it up" people may be absolute morons.

sneaky people
- Aetherial

In the Back Door

why are you trolling the board with MLB garbage...
- MisterBrown

Why are you assuming that you're the one who gets to tell people what they can and can't post?

I'm not happy with the team or the recent failures either.

But the dramatics are annoying. "Blow it up" people may be legally retarded.
- Leafs43

I am pretty certain you can find a better adjective.

Why are you assuming that you're the one who gets to tell people what they can and can't post?
- gergeswillems

Who was this guy in his past posting life...?

We can find out. Not a problem.

Who was this guy in his past posting life...?

We can find out. Not a problem.
- bixll

I'm trying to figure this out. 😉 I know Thunder N Lightning is Garf.

I am pretty certain you can find a better adjective.
- bixll

Fair enough.