All the Columbus forwards combined make the same amount as 34, 91, 16 and 88 make. Leafs shot under 2% 5 vs 5 and were out scored 9-8. As one commenter put it, ‘The jackets play like they’re hungry. The leafs play like they’re fed.’

not sure about Tortorella's comments defending Keefe - who was critizicing Keefe exactly, and about what? Apart from the systems not helping some players (Barrie, Marner, Kapanen) - it seems he did a pretty decent job and fans nor media were putting the loss on him..?

Dubas is another story.
Even if you think Dubas hasn't done a bad job with this team - we should all agree that his work has been mediocre at best.

And I'm not even talking about his lack of negotiation skills (in particular Kerfoot, Johnsson contracts really bad - leafs are stuck with those contracts for another 3 years..) but really his stubborn views ("Ceci is a legit NHL d-man" & "our defense is fine" & "we don't need any more physicality in this lineup - hockey has changed") and lack/long time to address clear issues (backup goalie; help on D) and the lack of a proper team culture (giving way to a millenial soyboy mentality of 'who gets the coolest tattoo and clothes') show he's not ready yet to lead one of the top franchises in NHL.

The only way forward is to fire Shanahan, fire Dubas - and give Keefe a last chance to prove himself after giving him a better roster to work with.

Nylander, Johnsson and Kerfoot should be traded - with Ceci and Barrie not back.

Leafs fans that keep on defending Dubas are just people that are ok with mediocrity - while this Leafs organization should always strive to achieve excellence; they have the financial means to be obliged to have that mindset.

(even the Dubas defenders in media are now highlighting this team needs a drastic change in direction).

Today the playoffs start - without the Maple Leafs; and Leafs don't even have a 1st round pick... 'epic failure' written all over this year.

so as the Leafs, do you take:

McDavid + Neal

for

Matthews + Nylander

?

You know your fan base is (frank)ed when they complain about the JT signing and let the Zaitzev, Marleau and Martin contracts slide.

Fans need someone to blame on the team so they can sleep at night.

not sure about Tortorella's comments defending Keefe - who was critizicing Keefe exactly, and about what? Apart from the systems not helping some players (Barrie, Marner, Kapanen) - it seems he did a pretty decent job and fans nor media were putting the loss on him..?

Dubas is another story.
Even if you think Dubas hasn't done a bad job with this team - we should all agree that his work has been mediocre at best.

And I'm not even talking about his lack of negotiation skills (in particular Kerfoot, Johnsson contracts really bad - leafs are stuck with those contracts for another 3 years..) but really his stubborn views ("Ceci is a legit NHL d-man" & "our defense is fine" & "we don't need any more physicality in this lineup - hockey has changed") and lack/long time to address clear issues (backup goalie; help on D) and the lack of a proper team culture (giving way to a millenial soyboy mentality of 'who gets the coolest tattoo and clothes') show he's not ready yet to lead one of the top franchises in NHL.

The only way forward is to fire Shanahan, fire Dubas - and give Keefe a last chance to prove himself after giving him a better roster to work with.

Nylander, Johnsson and Kerfoot should be traded - with Ceci and Barrie not back.

Leafs fans that keep on defending Dubas are just people that are ok with mediocrity - while this Leafs organization should always strive to achieve excellence; they have the financial means to be obliged to have that mindset.

(even the Dubas defenders in media are now highlighting this team needs a drastic change in direction).

Today the playoffs start - without the Maple Leafs; and Leafs don't even have a 1st round pick... 'epic failure' written all over this year.
- MaximusAurelius

Torts was saying people like you know nothing about hockey.

This makes no sense. There are not 10 C's in the league with a higher cap hit %.
- golfingsince

I never said there were 10... There are 6, I even posted them...

Torts was saying people like you know nothing about hockey.
- Santo_44

Santo - kindly go an frank yourself.
you're one upset soyboy.

I never said there were 10... There are 6, I even posted them...
- Steven_Seagull

welcome on the 'trade Nylander' boat, Gull

You know your fan base is (frank)ed when they complain about the JT signing and let the Zaitzev, Marleau and Martin contracts slide.

Fans need someone to blame on the team so they can sleep at night.
- Santo_44

But the guy I like signed those horrendous deals so I'm gonna ignore that. Also the guy I hate did something so I'm going to try my best to try to make them look worse (even if it means posting trades he didn't make or incomplete trades he made)


It's (frank)ing insanity.

But the guy I like signed those horrendous deals so I'm gonna ignore that. Also the guy I hate did something so I'm going to try my best to try to make them look worse (even if it means posting trades he didn't make or incomplete trades he made)


It's (frank)ing insanity.
- burn

Lou's teams make the playoffs.
You can argue 100 times about which individual players look better on paper - but team > individual players.

Lou's teams make the playoffs.
You can argue 100 times about which individual players look better on paper - but team > individual players.
- MaximusAurelius

Lou also left horrendous mess that needed to be cleaned up, but (as I said in previous post) well just ignore that.

So yeah, thanks for exactly proving my point.

Lou's teams make the playoffs.
You can argue 100 times about which individual players look better on paper - but team > individual players.
- MaximusAurelius

Making the playoffs shouldn't be the goal.

My standards are a lot higher....

Lou L is allowed to make mistakes. Because he’s won cups and has hall of fame success before most of his detractors have been alive. Lou left a mess.... After 15 years of great hockey. I’ll take that mess every day, especially since winning the cup is the standard, not just making the playoffs. I know I know, Stanley cups aren’t really that great if you leave a mess. Far better to not win any and leave no mess. There’s the real standard.

Lou L is allowed to make mistakes. Because he’s won cups and has hall of fame success before most of his detractors have been alive. Lou left a mess.... After 15 years of great hockey. I’ll take that mess every day, especially since winning the cup is the standard, not just making the playoffs. I know I know, Stanley cups aren’t really that great if you leave a mess. Far better to not win any and leave no mess. There’s the real standard.
- aminnes

(frank) off that's the dumbest thing I've heard. Mistakes are mistakes, being experienced and making mistakes doesn't lessen the mistakes. You hire the experienced guy in hopes he doesn't make mistakes and if he does they're not as bad as less experienced guy. Lou has made horrendous mistakes that have hampered this team ever since he left (still being effected even)

Dubas getting ripped here all the time for things that Lou (frank)ed up.

Making the playoffs shouldn't be the goal.

My standards are a lot higher....
- burn

yet you defend Kyle 'two steps back' Dubas

Lou L is allowed to make mistakes. Because he’s won cups and has hall of fame success before most of his detractors have been alive. Lou left a mess.... After 15 years of great hockey. I’ll take that mess every day, especially since winning the cup is the standard, not just making the playoffs. I know I know, Stanley cups aren’t really that great if you leave a mess. Far better to not win any and leave no mess. There’s the real standard.
- aminnes

I still can’t decide which Lou win was my favourite. Either way all the parades up Bay Street were great.

A little perspective on the possibility of running a full NHL season next year, outside a bubble:

The Cardinals and Pirates three-game series set to start Monday at Busch Stadium has been postponed, a source confirmed. One reason for the complete series being postponed is the the Cardinals have received word Sunday of an additional positive since the three new positives Friday, two sources with knowledge confirmed.

. . . . .

That assures the Cardinals of 13 consecutive postponed games.

That will put at least two weeks between them and their most recent game, and the goal is to add days between the team and its most recent positive test. The Cardinals had spent six days in quarantine last week, and two days after leaving Milwaukee they had new positive tests. This has caused enough alarm that the team and Major League Baseball are exploring the number of days the Cardinals must remove themselves from the schedule.

The likelihood of Monday's Pirates game being postponed was clear over the weekend. The postponement of the complete series was first reported by ESPN.

The postponement now leaves the Cardinals 46 days remaining on their schedule with 55 games to play. The Cardinals' next scheduled game is a doubleheader in Detroit on Thursday, however there's some question whether the team should be asked to return from a two-week hiatus with limited workouts to immediately travel and play a doubleheader. Cardinals opening day starter Jack Flaherty has not thrown an inning of competition since July 24, and by Thursday every pitcher on the staff will have gone two weeks without a pitch against an opponent.

https://www.stltoday.com/...4e-b0f0-6dff43d1872b.html
- Atomic Wedgie

why are you trolling the board with MLB garbage...

yet you defend Kyle 'two steps back' Dubas
- MaximusAurelius

Hasn't had a chance yet? Hampered by terible moves by his idiotic predecessor. Just finally got out from under a bozo for a coach. This is starting to be his team, now we see what he'll do.

All the Columbus forwards combined make the same amount as 34, 91, 16 and 88 make. Leafs shot under 2% 5 vs 5 and were out scored 9-8. As one commenter put it, ‘The jackets play like they’re hungry. The leafs play like they’re fed.’
- aminnes

if a team gives up more shots and more chances in close...but less goals...that team is more hungry?

I get trying to make up narratives and story lines to fit the results..but that doesnt add up.

(frank) off that's the dumbest thing I've heard. Mistakes are mistakes, being experienced and making mistakes doesn't lessen the mistakes. You hire the experienced guy in hopes he doesn't make mistakes and if he does they're not as bad as less experienced guy. Lou has made horrendous mistakes that have hampered this team ever since he left (still being effected even)

Dubas getting ripped here all the time for things that Lou (frank)ed up.
- burn

. I know right. The best part is making him the leafs scapegoat. The current GM was left with nothing but bad contracts. When Lou takes over teams they are littered with talent, cap space and are already contenders. That’s the standard. Dammit, why did Lou leave the leafs with actual GM work to do? What an bumhole.

Six teams have no first round draft pick (Boston, Tampa, Arizona, Vancouver, NY Islanders and Toronto).

Four teams have multiple first round picks

NYR 1, 24
Ottawa 3, 5, 22
Anaheim 6, 27
New Jersey 7, 18, 20

This is a huge, deep draft. Watch for teams with cap pressures and no first round draft picks to try and make deals to shed salary by trading for mid range first round draft picks.

Hasn't had a chance yet? Hampered by terible moves by his idiotic predecessor. Just finally got out from under a bozo for a coach. This is starting to be his team, now we see what he'll do.
- burn

apart from being young and woke, what has dubas done to get another chance as the GM after 2 years of (frank)-ups?

didn't address the d.
took him ages to get a reliable backup goalie after trading the one that was actually really good.]
thinks ceci is good.
overvalues 3rd/4th liners by paying them as 2nd liners.

if a team gives up more shots and more chances in close...but less goals...that team is more hungry?

I get trying to make up narratives and story lines to fit the results..but that doesnt add up.
- senstroll

Pssst. Focusing on the wrong team.

Six teams have no first round draft pick (Boston, Tampa, Arizona, Vancouver, NY Islanders and Toronto).

Four teams have multiple first round picks

NYR 1, 24
Ottawa 3, 5, 22
Anaheim 6, 27
New Jersey 7, 18, 20

This is a huge, deep draft. Watch for teams with cap pressures and no first round draft picks to try and make deals to shed salary by trading for mid range first round draft picks.
- spatso

just for fun, lets look at past "deep drafts"
2015 was pretty good.

Sens three slots were. D.Strome, Hanifin and Ilya Samsonov
Jersey - Provorov, Chabot and Joel Eriksson Ek

If you go to the deepest draft 2003

Sens - Nathan Horton, Thomas Vanek and Marc-Antoine Pouliot
Jersey - Ryan Suter, Eric Fehr and Brent Burns

some good players in there, but I think stuff gets over hyped a little

not sure about Tortorella's comments defending Keefe - who was critizicing Keefe exactly, and about what? Apart from the systems not helping some players (Barrie, Marner, Kapanen) - it seems he did a pretty decent job and fans nor media were putting the loss on him..?

Dubas is another story.
Even if you think Dubas hasn't done a bad job with this team - we should all agree that his work has been mediocre at best.

And I'm not even talking about his lack of negotiation skills (in particular Kerfoot, Johnsson contracts really bad - leafs are stuck with those contracts for another 3 years..) but really his stubborn views ("Ceci is a legit NHL d-man" & "our defense is fine" & "we don't need any more physicality in this lineup - hockey has changed") and lack/long time to address clear issues (backup goalie; help on D) and the lack of a proper team culture (giving way to a millenial soyboy mentality of 'who gets the coolest tattoo and clothes') show he's not ready yet to lead one of the top franchises in NHL.

The only way forward is to fire Shanahan, fire Dubas - and give Keefe a last chance to prove himself after giving him a better roster to work with.

Nylander, Johnsson and Kerfoot should be traded - with Ceci and Barrie not back.

Leafs fans that keep on defending Dubas are just people that are ok with mediocrity - while this Leafs organization should always strive to achieve excellence; they have the financial means to be obliged to have that mindset.

(even the Dubas defenders in media are now highlighting this team needs a drastic change in direction).

Today the playoffs start - without the Maple Leafs; and Leafs don't even have a 1st round pick... 'epic failure' written all over this year.
- MaximusAurelius

Easy there. "Atomic" will say you're trolling the board. I was saying pretty much the same thing and got attacked.

Shanahan should go. Dubas should go.

Dubas should go, not just for the on-ice product lacking finish, but because based on your reasoning which I agree with and added to:
1. He claimed there's nothing wrong with the 'D',
2. Overpays players to hamstring himself (ie: Marner, Snake, the 3rd/ 4th line guys you mentioned above)
3. Thinks culture doesn't exist, not sure the exact comment, but you reminded me of the issue
4. Thinks that physicality is a relic of hockey past
5. Didn't fix the goaler situation (get a better backup/ get a better goaler coach to fix Andersen's post hugging)
6. wears funny glasses
7. ended the rebuild too early and has traded away 1st round picks. (no he didn't need to ship a 1st to get rid of marleau. he could have kept marleau and not overpaid other players)

Not sure why people are so in love with Shanahan. The guy is a joke as an exec. had no experience before being hired from player safety. He hasn't won anything as a leaf (some amoeba posted he won stanley cups, yeah, so did hundreds of other guys, i don't see anyone clamoring to give them the top job). Shanahan hired Lou/ hired Babcock/ hired Dubas and what's happened? a big egg. they've won literally zero and embarrassed themselves in the process. Should've just kept Burkie around. At least he would have had a tough team out there instead of these water bugs (looking at marner with whatever that fungus is on his chin)...