Or fire the dopes that run the replay booth. It is not that hard of a job. But Bettman must have his kids he had with David Stern running the show.
- powerenforcer

Problem is you have old people who have no clue trying to figure out how to use technology. Recipe for disaster

I guarantee you if every sport allowed 20 something year olds to run, design and review the plays, the systems would work better in every sport

They are gaining experience. Dach and Boqvist are 2 years away from being able to enjoy a drink legally.

Nylander, Dinky, Strome??? Not much older (22, 22, 23).
- HawkintheD

I know some people use the phrase gaining experience, however everyone should see these players with this opportunity taking strides forward. Dach imo has been the only one to show he is getting better and better . Strome , nylander and cat no excuse whatsoever for their non performance.


Boqvist isn't he supposed to be offensively talented ? I havent seen anything from him to make me believe he has that in his game. I'll give you the defensive arguement side with him learning but his biggest skill that Chicago grabbed him for was his huge offensive side.


At what point can we all agree that if these guys cant get it together in the regular season and now here is a golden opportunity to prove to everyone their good , and yet through 5 games so far it's the same guys we've all been calling out for their M.I.A .

You mentioned strome , cat and nylander ages ? Most players at that age that are forwards have developed and are hitting their stride or prime.

So how do you argue that at ages 22 -23 their still young and learning . When at that point in many good or great players their all producing? Its usually by their late 20's early 30's they start to slow down.


Their is to many players to list but they all hit their stride mostly before or by the age.


My point is these guys have all played the game and played in playoffs at different levels so they should understand how important it is and have their basic skills shooting , defending , passing and faceoff down.

Problem is you have old people who have no clue trying to figure out how to use technology. Recipe for disaster

I guarantee you if every sport allowed 20 something year olds to run, design and review the plays, the systems would work better in every sport
- BetweenTheDots

While I enjoy your arguements this one I have to completely disagree with it. Your stating your opinion with no facts to back up your point. Its discriminate based on age and not a sound arguement in facts.

You could argue that the nhl has lowered its standards as to whom they hire and that's a great arguement


Just saying

I agree with most of your point , with the exception. Boqvist I havent seen anything in this kid from a offensive standpoint that he was put up on a pedestal for.

He and keith need to be broken up Keith's age and size are 2 factors . Keith was a minus 4

Everyone keeps saying their gaining experience. These are grown men whom have been playing the game for a long time at this point they should all understand what's at stake and know how to play a full game
- Taylorst1

No doubt you've heard it said on this board, that dmen need 300 or maybe the figure is 350 gp to develop, to learn and become descent dmen

When a player advances to a greater skill and faster league, there is bound to be an adjustment period

When most teenagers turn pro, they have not yet developed the body strength necessary for the rigors of NHL hockey.

Most dmen need a couple of years .minimum before their ceiling (talent level) is achjeved. And we already know that Boqvist has been on the fast track per development.

Anyway, the defenze paIrings are best as constructed. I would rather leave them as is

No doubt you've heard it said on this board, that dmen need 300 or maybe the figure is 350 gp to develop, to learn and become descent dmen

When a player advances to a greater skill and faster league, there is bound to be an adjustment period

When most teenagers turn pro, they have not yet developed the body strength necessary for the rigors of NHL hockey.

Most dmen need a couple of years .minimum before their ceiling (talent level) is achjeved. And we already know that Boqvist has been on the fast track per development.

Anyway, the defenze paIrings are best as constructed. I would rather leave them as is
- jhawk59

Hey jhawk good morning my fellow hawks fan. What a difficult game to watch last night after the 2nd period. I wasn't arguing against his development, what I was pointing out is his offensive side that we've all seen before has been M.IA .

I always said defenseman take alot longer to develop their defensive skill side and weight.
Imo I don't think keith and boqvist for varying degrees of reason should be paired up.

Saw a quote from someone earlier saying Edzo got an explanation from the ref that Reeves dragged the second skate on the blue line.

Was there a rule change I missed or are you now allowed to drag your skate in the air?
- HawkintheD

Most of the replays I saw were inconclusive - looked more like his toe was dragging on the ice than not, but....

Isn’t there a camera at the blue line just above the ice that would give a better view?

I’m ok with the ultimate call, but not with the decision to challenge an inconclusive decision (even tho they scored on the resulting PK).

I know some people use the phrase gaining experience, however everyone should see these players with this opportunity taking strides forward. Dach imo has been the only one to show he is getting better and better . Strome , nylander and cat no excuse whatsoever for their non performance.


Boqvist isn't he supposed to be offensively talented ? I havent seen anything from him to make me believe he has that in his game. I'll give you the defensive arguement side with him learning but his biggest skill that Chicago grabbed him for was his huge offensive side.


At what point can we all agree that if these guys cant get it together in the regular season and now here is a golden opportunity to prove to everyone their good , and yet through 5 games so far it's the same guys we've all been calling out for their M.I.A .

You mentioned strome , cat and nylander ages ? Most players at that age that are forwards have developed and are hitting their stride or prime.

So how do you argue that at ages 22 -23 their still young and learning . When at that point in many good or great players their all producing? Its usually by their late 20's early 30's they start to slow down.


Their is to many players to list but they all hit their stride mostly before or by the age.


My point is these guys have all played the game and played in playoffs at different levels so they should understand how important it is and have their basic skills shooting , defending , passing and faceoff down.
- Taylorst1

HE's NINETEEN!

How many games do they usually say it takes for a dman to be pretty much fully developed? 300 is usually the number I hear bandied about. Hoe many regular season games has Boqvist played? Less than 50 including the 5 playoff games.

If you think guys aged 22-23 are finished products and have reached their ceiling, I'm not sure there is much more argument to be had.

Kane's special, but do you think he was done developing at that age? How about Toews or Hossa? Hossa admittedly didn't truly develop his 2 way game until he was with the Wings so how old was he...like 28'ish?

Or here's a good one. Was Patrick Sharp the complete product at 22-23?

Dinky's already scored 40 goals in a regular season. That said, I wouldn't consider him an untouchable and if we're looking at tough choices in a Cap world, I keep Saad over him.

Could Nylander and Strome be finished products? Possibly. But the point is you have no idea if that's the case and you may not believe it but players actually continue to grow and develop even after they are 22 and 23.

While I enjoy your arguements this one I have to completely disagree with it. Your stating your opinion with no facts to back up your point. Its discriminate based on age and not a sound arguement in facts.

You could argue that the nhl has lowered its standards as to whom they hire and that's a great arguement


Just saying
- Taylorst1

So it's young people who run the NHL?

The game was a lot closer than most think. VGK won the scoring chance only 18-17 at 5v5. High danger was 7-4 for Vegas, and xGF was 1.59 to 1.25 in favor of Vegas.

CC was not good. The 1st and especially the 3rd goal were awful. A decent major Junior goalie stops both of those shots.

So it's young people who run the NHL?
- BetweenTheDots

I don't see what age, gender or race in any business has to do with your arguements? That's straight up discrimination. PERIOD. That kind of thinking is shallow and lacks any merit.

Keith a minus 4 tonight
- LAHawk

The 1st and 3rd goals were on CC. Any NHL goalie has to stop those.

I don't see what age, gender or race in any business has to do with your arguements? That's straight up discrimination. PERIOD. That kind of thinking is shallow and lacks any merit.
- Taylorst1

So do some of your thoughts on reverse ageism and the inability of 22-23 yo's to continue developing in their profession.

HE's NINETEEN!

How many games do they usually say it takes for a dman to be pretty much fully developed? 300 is usually the number I hear bandied about. Hoe many regular season games has Boqvist played? Less than 50 including the 5 playoff games.

If you think guys aged 22-23 are finished products and have reached their ceiling, I'm not sure there is much more argument to be had.

Kane's special, but do you think he was done developing at that age? How about Toews or Hossa? Hossa admittedly didn't truly develop his 2 way game until he was with the Wings so how old was he...like 28'ish?

Or here's a good one. Was Patrick Sharp the complete product at 22-23?

Dinky's already scored 40 goals in a regular season. That said, I wouldn't consider him an untouchable and if we're looking at tough choices in a Cap world, I keep Saad over him.

Could Nylander and Strome be finished products? Possibly. But the point is you have no idea if that's the case and you may not believe it but players actually continue to grow and develop even after they are 22 and 23.
- HawkintheD

Hey hawk , most forwards and they key word is most at 22-23 start hitting their prime their is always room to grow I never said their isn't but the keys you draft or trade for in any player should always be their.

You mentioned cat scoring 40 goals ok was that just luck or is that his true ceiling . This year he has been M.I.A and strome and nylander have always been huge question Mark's.

I'm just saying these kids are supposed to be the future and right now I'm not convinced their anything but over hyped projects that didn't pan out.

Saad your right he is a much better player than cat.

So do some of your thoughts on reverse ageism and the inability of 22-23 yo's to continue developing in their profession.
- HawkintheD

That word salad of trying to play gymnastics with my words is utterly absurd. It's not even close to discrimination.

Read my original statement on discrimination and also try reading the law.

I know some people use the phrase gaining experience, however everyone should see these players with this opportunity taking strides forward. Dach imo has been the only one to show he is getting better and better . Strome , nylander and cat no excuse whatsoever for their non performance.


Boqvist isn't he supposed to be offensively talented ? I havent seen anything from him to make me believe he has that in his game. I'll give you the defensive arguement side with him learning but his biggest skill that Chicago grabbed him for was his huge offensive side.


At what point can we all agree that if these guys cant get it together in the regular season and now here is a golden opportunity to prove to everyone their good , and yet through 5 games so far it's the same guys we've all been calling out for their M.I.A .

You mentioned strome , cat and nylander ages ? Most players at that age that are forwards have developed and are hitting their stride or prime.

So how do you argue that at ages 22 -23 their still young and learning . When at that point in many good or great players their all producing? Its usually by their late 20's early 30's they start to slow down.


Their is to many players to list but they all hit their stride mostly before or by the age.


My point is these guys have all played the game and played in playoffs at different levels so they should understand how important it is and have their basic skills shooting , defending , passing and faceoff down.
- Taylorst1

How many defeseman in Bovquist draft year (where he was one of the youngest available) have played in the NHL yet? Quinn Hughes and Rasmus Dahlin, both a year older than Bovquist. Hughes was brought along last year like Bovquist this year, and now in his first full season has had a breakout year. Dahlin struggled this year.

I don't really like the Keith Bovquist pairing, Keith is not really the ideal partner for a offensive defenseman, as he still tries to disrupt the play at the neutral zone, and needs a center fielder as a partner. I would try KK their next game. In my opinion, since KK has been put regularly in the line-up, he has played just fine, but he will never get over the (he is not good, and never will be) of the fanbase.

What part of Nylander's game did you not like yesterday? I don't think he was the problem. Strome, seems to have gotten slower as the season is going on. Right now he is playing himself into a Perlinin type contract, a $1.5 mil. show me.

Has Kampf ever played left wing? He can play big boy hockey. Limited offense, but wonder how he would do with Dach and Kane? The line would be automatically better defensively, and Kampf can muck the boards, right now with ADB and Kane, it is a 19 year old that is the primary board battler on that line.

I don't see what age, gender or race in any business has to do with your arguements? That's straight up discrimination. PERIOD. That kind of thinking is shallow and lacks any merit.
- Taylorst1

It is what it is.

They've gone so far as to penalize teams if they are wrong on the replay that's how much they support it.

Hey hawk , most forwards and they key word is most at 22-23 start hitting their prime their is always room to grow I never said their isn't but the keys you draft or trade for in any player should always be their.

You mentioned cat scoring 40 goals ok was that just luck or is that his true ceiling . This year he has been M.I.A and strome and nylander have always been huge question Mark's.

I'm just saying these kids are supposed to be the future and right now I'm not convinced their anything but over hyped projects that didn't pan out.

Saad your right he is a much better player than cat.
- Taylorst1

It's possible, but agree to disagree. I think the ingredients are there with a couple of them and I think they still need time is more my point.

This was Nylander's first full season in the NHL. Up til now, his season's have been cut short by injuries so him playing a full season is a win in my book.

Where he develops from here is up to him.

Strome could still be a 2C on this team but as long as the Capt. keeps drinking from the Fountain of Youth and Dach continues on his trajectory, he's a 3C on this team...which may create a square peg round hole scenario.

Is Kurashev or another guy the 3C. No idea as he's even younger but guys like him and Barratt sound a better fir for that role. Theo could answer that question better than I.

Dinky? Probably not a perennial 40 goal guy but 30? Possibly. His salary isn't bad for a scorer but like I said in a Cap decision I'd rather keep Saad.

How many defeseman in Bovquist draft year (where he was one of the youngest available) have played in the NHL yet? Quinn Hughes and Rasmus Dahlin, both a year older than Bovquist. Hughes was brought along last year like Bovquist this year, and now in his first full season has had a breakout year. Dahlin struggled this year.

I don't really like the Keith Bovquist pairing, Keith is not really the ideal partner for a offensive defenseman, as he still tries to disrupt the play at the neutral zone, and needs a center fielder as a partner. I would try KK their next game. In my opinion, since KK has been put regularly in the line-up, he has played just fine, but he will never get over the (he is not good, and never will be) of the fanbase.

What part of Nylander's game did you not like yesterday? I don't think he was the problem. Strome, seems to have gotten slower as the season is going on. Right now he is playing himself into a Perlinin type contract, a $1.5 mil. show me.

Has Kampf ever played left wing? He can play big boy hockey. Limited offense, but wonder how he would do with Dach and Kane? The line would be automatically better defensively, and Kampf can muck the boards, right now with ADB and Kane, it is a 19 year old that is the primary board battler on that line.
- LAHawk

You made my point . Thanks I didn't word it correctly but what you said is exactly my point. I agree keith and boqvist for varying reasons shouldn't be paired up.

Maybe that change will allow for boqvist to showcase his offensive skills while developing his body , reaction and ability to better read plays and the speed of the game.

Regarding nylander I'm starting to think it's his confidence and overall ability to slow the game down .

Kane has no support and with that it's so easy to slow or shut him down.

Imo I was thinking de haan and boqvist as a better match with keith and murphy paired up.

That word salad of trying to play gymnastics with my words is utterly absurd. It's not even close to discrimination.

Read my original statement on discrimination and also try reading the law.
- Taylorst1

Unwad your undies Taylor. Mostly just having some fun and couldn't resist using "reverse ageism" in a post.

But to your earlier quote...

So how do you argue that at ages 22 -23 their still young and learning . When at that point in many good or great players their all producing? Its usually by their late 20's early 30's they start to slow down.

All those guys have produced in the regular season to some degree...and this was Nylander's first full season. Your first sentence asks how I can argue "at ages 22-23 they're still young and learning (tbf, I also used "they're" correctly vs "their")".

At 22-23, they are in fact still young and learning and have already shown something.

Will they show more? TBD.

You made my point . Thanks I didn't word it correctly but what you said is exactly my point. I agree keith and boqvist for varying reasons shouldn't be paired up.

Maybe that change will allow for boqvist to showcase his offensive skills while developing his body , reaction and ability to better read plays and the speed of the game.

Regarding nylander I'm starting to think it's his confidence and overall ability to slow the game down .

Kane has no support and with that it's so easy to slow or shut him down.

Imo I was thinking de haan and boqvist as a better match with keith and murphy paired up.
- Taylorst1

In the glory days, it was Oduya, Hammer as the shutdown pair, this allowed Keith to do Keith things. I would leave DaHaan Murphy as the shut down pair, they have done it well.

It's possible, but agree to disagree. I think the ingredients are there with a couple of them and I think they still need time is more my point.

This was Nylander's first full season in the NHL. Up til now, his season's have been cut short by injuries so him playing a full season is a win in my book.

Where he develops from here is up to him.

Strome could still be a 2C on this team but as long as the Capt. keeps drinking from the Fountain of Youth and Dach continues on his trajectory, he's a 3C on this team...which may create a square peg round hole scenario.

Is Kurashev or another guy the 3C. No idea as he's even younger but guys like him and Barratt sound a better fir for that role. Theo could answer that question better than I.

Dinky? Probably not a perennial 40 goal guy but 30? Possibly. His salary isn't bad for a scorer but like I said in a Cap decision I'd rather keep Saad.
- HawkintheD

Well said hawk. I think we are all a bit frustrated to varying degrees. Strome was supposed to be a very good setup and passer. I think you're right about the pelini comparison.

Cat he has always been a shooter and he seems to been trying to skate and play setup man more so .

HE's NINETEEN!

How many games do they usually say it takes for a dman to be pretty much fully developed? 300 is usually the number I hear bandied about. Hoe many regular season games has Boqvist played? Less than 50 including the 5 playoff games.

If you think guys aged 22-23 are finished products and have reached their ceiling, I'm not sure there is much more argument to be had.

Kane's special, but do you think he was done developing at that age? How about Toews or Hossa? Hossa admittedly didn't truly develop his 2 way game until he was with the Wings so how old was he...like 28'ish?

Or here's a good one. Was Patrick Sharp the complete product at 22-23?

Dinky's already scored 40 goals in a regular season. That said, I wouldn't consider him an untouchable and if we're looking at tough choices in a Cap world, I keep Saad over him.

Could Nylander and Strome be finished products? Possibly. But the point is you have no idea if that's the case and you may not believe it but players actually continue to grow and develop even after they are 22 and 23.
- HawkintheD

agree...my goodness bokie was even expected to play this season with the hawks and i am sure the they wanted his to stay in RFD...but dman problems and injury required he would have to play...

paired with keith...his role is not offense...but focus on defense development and conservative offensive play...which is the right thing. he does look overmatched with this group of vegas frowards...

In the glory days, it was Oduya, Hammer as the shutdown pair, this allowed Keith to do Keith things. I would leave DaHaan Murphy as the shut down pair, they have done it well.
- LAHawk

I understand your point. But keith isn't young anymore and the amount of games he has played at some point take a toll on his body to a degree.

Keith isn't a big player he defends more so using his stick and technique to compensate for his lack in size.

In a perfect world your right with pairing assignments, but with many factors here to consider and trying to eliminate each guys weakness and play on their strengths.

How many defeseman in Bovquist draft year (where he was one of the youngest available) have played in the NHL yet? Quinn Hughes and Rasmus Dahlin, both a year older than Bovquist. Hughes was brought along last year like Bovquist this year, and now in his first full season has had a breakout year. Dahlin struggled this year.

I don't really like the Keith Bovquist pairing, Keith is not really the ideal partner for a offensive defenseman, as he still tries to disrupt the play at the neutral zone, and needs a center fielder as a partner. I would try KK their next game. In my opinion, since KK has been put regularly in the line-up, he has played just fine, but he will never get over the (he is not good, and never will be) of the fanbase.

What part of Nylander's game did you not like yesterday? I don't think he was the problem. Strome, seems to have gotten slower as the season is going on. Right now he is playing himself into a Perlinin type contract, a $1.5 mil. show me.

Has Kampf ever played left wing? He can play big boy hockey. Limited offense, but wonder how he would do with Dach and Kane? The line would be automatically better defensively, and Kampf can muck the boards, right now with ADB and Kane, it is a 19 year old that is the primary board battler on that line.
- LAHawk

Gotta blame TC for the loss last night. No game day thread for game 1 of our first playoff series in years? Automatic loss. Hawks had zero chance of winning last night. Thanks TC

Unwad your undies Taylor. Mostly just having some fun and couldn't resist using "reverse ageism" in a post.

But to your earlier quote...

So how do you argue that at ages 22 -23 their still young and learning . When at that point in many good or great players their all producing? Its usually by their late 20's early 30's they start to slow down.

All those guys have produced in the regular season to some degree...and this was Nylander's first full season. Your first sentence asks how I can argue "at ages 22-23 they're still young and learning (tbf, I also used "they're" correctly vs "their")".

At 22-23, they are in fact still young and learning and have already shown something.

Will they show more? TBD.
- HawkintheD

Lol ok my Underoos are unwound. My point was simple it's never about age , gender or race but based on skill and whom is the best qualified.

So taking into account a players age based on the life expectancy of his or her career in the hockey world 22 years old in a forward they should be developed to a point you can justify keeping him on your team based on wait for it Skill and ability to perform.