not sure whether work ethic was ever questioned with some of the examples you mention.
criticism on Ovi was that he was one-dimensional - but I don't think anyone ever questioned his will to win?
- MaximusAurelius

You’re way off on that one. Work ethic was questioned for both players. You just pick the the opposite take and run with it.

You’re a fuking waste of time.

You’re way off on that one. Work ethic was questioned for both players. You just pick the the opposite take and run with it.

You’re a fuking waste of time.
- shack67

So are people going to start discussing the idea that McDavid clearly can't win because his team has only won one playoff round in five years and missed the playoffs the rest of the time?


Or are those discussions only reserved for the leafs young stars?

You’re way off on that one. Work ethic was questioned for both players. You just pick the the opposite take and run with it.

You’re a fuking waste of time.
- shack67

sure, there were some talks about Ovi being tangled up to much in the 'rockstar life' of being an NHL superstar. still, will to win never questioned (work ethic yes).

Yzerman though - have to disagree on that. from very young on, his will to win and to be better than others was always tagged as one of his top qualities.

So are people going to start discussing the idea that McDavid clearly can't win because his team has only won one playoff round in five years and missed the playoffs the rest of the time?


Or are those discussions only reserved for the leafs young stars?
- Leafs43

He's no Nylander, but wouldn't go as far as writing him off as a playoff ghost just yet..

Mike milbury said rielly dove.
- burn

Milbury also said Muzzin was faking.

sure, there were some talks about Ovi being tangled up to much in the 'rockstar life' of being an NHL superstar. still, will to win never questioned (work ethic yes).

Yzerman though - have to disagree on that. from very young on, his will to win and to be better than others was always tagged as one of his top qualities.
- MaximusAurelius

Way out to lunch on this.

Milbury also said Muzzin was faking.
- gergeswillems

He's a (frank)ing goof

sure, there were some talks about Ovi being tangled up to much in the 'rockstar life' of being an NHL superstar. still, will to win never questioned (work ethic yes).

Yzerman though - have to disagree on that. from very young on, his will to win and to be better than others was always tagged as one of his top qualities.
- MaximusAurelius

Yzerman was always expected to score goals and set up goals and rack up a ton of points. Demers and Murray basically just said "Go score Stevie."

There was never any question about his work ethic. Scotty Bowman made him a 2 way player and he learned how to play without the puck. He scored less points but became a much more complete player.

Yzerman was made to be the scapegoat for the Red Wings playoff chokes. Sure he was partly to blame. But it wasn't a case of a lack of effort. Not even close. That's a BS narrative if I've ever heard one.

He's no Nylander, but wouldn't go as far as writing him off as a playoff ghost just yet..
- MaximusAurelius

McDavid is very clearly not a playoff ghost.

My point is people seem ready to write off the Leafs young stars after three playoff failures and a very near playoff failure.

Just wondering how many playoffs does McDavid get?

Yzerman was always expected to score goals and set up goals and rack up a ton of points. Demers and Murray basically just said "Go score Stevie."

There was never any question about his work ethic. Scotty Bowman made him a 2 way player and he learned how to play without the puck. He scored less points but became a much more complete player.

Yzerman was made to be the scapegoat for the Red Wings playoff chokes. Sure he was partly to blame. But it wasn't a case of a lack of effort. Not even close. That's a BS narrative if I've ever heard one.
- gergeswillems

Burn knows better though.

He's a (frank)ing goof
- burn

Mad Mike is still stuck back in 1990.

McDavid is very clearly not a playoff ghost.

My point is people seem ready to write off the Leafs young stars after three playoff failures and a very near playoff failure.

Just wondering how many playoffs does McDavid get?
- Leafs43

Oilers need a goalie and they'll be fine.
McDavid was incredible these playoffs series. (i think you missed the )

Burn knows better though.
- MaximusAurelius

Smith recalled the critics when Team Canada selected Yzerman for the 1996 World Cup.

"They said he didn't have the makeup to really sacrifice himself in that kind of tournament," Smith said. "He was small, weak and not very good defensively. If he got hurt and couldn't play, no big deal. We don't need him. Who needs Steve Yzerman? He's never won anything. ... It's hard to believe today that kind of talk was true, but it was."

Burn knows better though.
- MaximusAurelius

Smith recalled the critics when Team Canada selected Yzerman for the 1996 World Cup.

"They said he didn't have the makeup to really sacrifice himself in that kind of tournament," Smith said. "He was small, weak and not very good defensively. If he got hurt and couldn't play, no big deal. We don't need him. Who needs Steve Yzerman? He's never won anything. ... It's hard to believe today that kind of talk was true, but it was."

Burn knows better though.
- MaximusAurelius

I just posted quote about yzerman that is basically word for word the criticism of the leafs. But ok then

Yzerman didn’t grow and learn. He just kept being a pts accumulator and eventually won (he was Way past 23)

Smith recalled the critics when Team Canada selected Yzerman for the 1996 World Cup.

"They said he didn't have the makeup to really sacrifice himself in that kind of tournament," Smith said. "He was small, weak and not very good defensively. If he got hurt and couldn't play, no big deal. We don't need him. Who needs Steve Yzerman? He's never won anything. ... It's hard to believe today that kind of talk was true, but it was."
- burn

That's the label Mike Keenan put on Yzerman and it was a bunch of BS. He chose his own player Dirk Graham over Yzerman for Team Canada in the 1991 Canada Cup. He was also left off the 1987 team. Yzerman scored 155 points one year and he's not good enough to make Team Canada? Ridiculous.

By 1996 Yzerman had completely transformed his game into being an elite 2 way center. So for anyone to still push this stupid Mike Keenan BS narrative was even more Ignorant. Yzerman didn't become a great leader overnight. He evolved into being one as soon as Bowman arrived in Detroit in 93-94.

There was never a work ethic issue with Yzerman. Ever.

That's the label Mike Keenan put on Yzerman and it was a bunch of BS. He chose his own player Dirk Graham over Yzerman for Team Canada in the 1991 Canada Cup. He was also left off the 1987 team. Yzerman scored 155 points one year and he's not good enough to make Team Canada? Ridiculous.

By 1996 Yzerman had completely transformed his game into being an elite 2 way center. So for anyone to still push this stupid Mike Keenan BS narrative was even more Ignorant. Yzerman didn't become a great leader overnight. He evolved into being one as soon as Bowman arrived in Detroit in 93-94.
- gergeswillems

This was kinda my point here. He absolutely did evolve and grow (and he took longer than 23 yr old).

Hopefully, the team will realize that a sense of urgency and desire is what is necessary to win in the post-season. They dominated when they actually tried... imagine that?!
- mjones242

Agreed. I guess my skepticism comes from the fact they have been mediocre at best as a team since Jan. 2019. That is a long sample size. These guys are on their big boy tickets now and need to play like pros. Not a bunch of entitled kids. We'll see how it shakes out.

This was kinda my point here. He absolutely did evolve and grow (and he took longer than 23 yr old).
- burn

you're mistaking the criticism of 'being to small' (not physical enough, not big enough) with the criticism of lack of compete (some players on this leafs team; e.g. nylander, barrie)

Mike milbury said rielly dove.
- burn

That fan in Madison Square Garden dove into his own shoe.

This was kinda my point here. He absolutely did evolve and grow (and he took longer than 23 yr old).
- burn

You're making it sound as if Yzerman half assed it and never gave a crap for the first half of his career which isn't true. He did exactly what he was asked to do. Score goals and rack up alot of points. Work ethic was never an issue. Ever. When Bowman asked him to sacrifice his stats for the betterment of the team he did.

would somebody (TheMussel, Bobby?) please explain to me why any restaurant would put fresh mussels on the menu?
it's normally not an expensive dish, and these MF's take ages to clean decently.. I don's see how this is viable for any restaurant?

sure, there were some talks about Ovi being tangled up to much in the 'rockstar life' of being an NHL superstar. still, will to win never questioned (work ethic yes).

Yzerman though - have to disagree on that. from very young on, his will to win and to be better than others was always tagged as one of his top qualities.
- MaximusAurelius

Ovies will.to score early in his career superceded his will to win. Stop being a female genitalia about everything. (frank) is wrong with you mate?

would somebody (TheMussel, Bobby?) please explain to me why any restaurant would put fresh mussels on the menu?
it's normally not an expensive dish, and these MF's take ages to clean decently.. I don's see how this is viable for any restaurant?
- MaximusAurelius

Would you just (frank)ing shut up sometimes? Nobody gives a rats (frank) what you think or say. You're a right idiot mate. When is enough enough? Serious question...how much do you hate yourself ?