It's a point that hit me pretty hard last night when Johnson was on the ice for his 5th goal against of the series. People refuse to throw away +/-, so why doesn't it get used productively to bench plugs? It's literally only used to justify being hard on players that the coaching staff doesn't like the playing style of. It's parroted as to why offensively minded rookies are in the press box, but God forbid a grizzled vet is on the bad end of a -3 night, apparently the issue is back checking forwards.

I'm not saying +/- should be taken seriously know because it proves a point about Jack Johnson. I'm saying there's a hypocrisy here and the stat should be taken even less seriously because of the way its used.
- Victoro311

I agree with all of that.

Shake it up:
McCann-Sid-Zucker
Guentzel-Geno-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueg-Tanev
Sheary-Lafferty/Erod-Rust

Marleau sucks Richard. Bench him.
Bench JJ. Start Rikky.
Start Jarry.
- j.boyd919

Lafferty was (frank)ing bad last night. I like him. I think he had a nice season for what he is, but he's a 13th forward. 13th forwards shouldn't be drawing in during the playoffs if it can be helped, and right now we have enough bottom 6 depth that I think it can.

I agree with the McCann part. He's not cutting it as 3C and him and Sid have had success before. See if putting him there will respire his goal scoring. Guentzel is struggling right now. Put him back with Geno to see if easier matchups with a different all world center can get him going. Reunite what was one of the best lines in hockey while Sid was out in Guentzel-Malkin-Rust. Rodrigues is hungry and at least a 4th line caliber player better than Lafferty. See if he can cut it as 4C (done calling that line the third line) and see if he can add some stability and life to that Frankenstein line. I actually think Sheary's been playing well so I may be bold and say scratch Marleau as well.

I just went back and watched all the Habs goals. Its not just JJ...Schultz has blame too, especially on the 2nd goal. It was Schultz's man (Byron) he didn't have tied up/wasn't playing hard enough that just deflected the shot in the crease.

The 3rd and 4th goals Ive seen goalies stop many, many times. On the 3rd goal Murray doesn't stretch to cover far post with toe/pad...just not strong there at all....and that 4th goal, Ive seen him scored on like this a few times before. Over the shoulder. Down at the post when he shouldn't be. Wide open gaping hole there haha.

1st goal against was 3 rebounds. He didnt have much help with the players in front of him but he could of also not gave up 3 rebounds/tried to cover it, he was also way out of his crease.

I just went back and watched all the Habs goals. Its not just JJ...Schultz has blame too, especially on the 2nd goal. It was Schultz's man (Byron) he didn't have tied up/wasn't playing hard enough that just deflected the shot in the crease.

The 3rd and 4th goals Ive seen goalies stop many, many times. On the 3rd goal Murray doesn't stretch to cover far post with toe/pad...just not strong there at all....and that 4th goal, Ive seen him scored on like this a few times before. Over the shoulder. Down at the post when he shouldn't be. Wide open gaping hole there haha.

1st goal against was 3 rebounds. He didnt have much help with the players in front of him but he could of also not gave up 3 rebounds/tried to cover it, he was also way out of his crease.
- MattStrat

Schultz is hot garbage too lol if he’s not sheltered, he’s bad. And when he’s playing with hot garbage as a partner, they both catch on fire and turn into a dumpster fire.

Schultz is hot garbage too lol if he’s not sheltered, he’s bad. And when he’s playing with hot garbage as a partner, they both catch on fire and turn into a dumpster fire.
- j.boyd919

hahaha so true. The thing is, if they werent the 3rd pair this series, there's a good chance its already over in the Pens favor. At least Schultz can pass good and get shots on net though.

8.75 mill for that 3rd pairing is absolute f'n insanity hahaha especially when you consider theres a more effective 3rd pair being scratched that costs 1.55 mill

I just went back and watched all the Habs goals. Its not just JJ...Schultz has blame too, especially on the 2nd goal. It was Schultz's man (Byron) he didn't have tied up/wasn't playing hard enough that just deflected the shot in the crease.

The 3rd and 4th goals Ive seen goalies stop many, many times. On the 3rd goal Murray doesn't stretch to cover far post with toe/pad...just not strong there at all....and that 4th goal, Ive seen him scored on like this a few times before. Over the shoulder. Down at the post when he shouldn't be. Wide open gaping hole there haha.

1st goal against was 3 rebounds. He didnt have much help with the players in front of him but he could of also not gave up 3 rebounds/tried to cover it, he was also way out of his crease.
- MattStrat

I think Schultz should also be benched. He had a worse season than Ruhwedel, fair or not since ehe had Johnson as a partner, but also Riikola-Ruhwedel has some sample size of being a functional pairing. I don't think Riikola and Schultz have played together at all (of course not because Johnson played all 82 games) and I'm not keen on trying a brand new defensive pairing on a do or die game when it's not clear that Ruhwedel is a step down from Schultz. If Schultz were definitively better than Ruhwedel, then sure. You should always play your best players, but they're at best even and chemistry is an important tie breaker.

I think Schultz should also be benched. He had a worse season than Ruhwedel, fair or not since ehe had Johnson as a partner, but also Riikola-Ruhwedel has some sample size of being a functional pairing. I don't think Riikola and Schultz have played together at all (of course not because Johnson played all 82 games) and I'm not keen on trying a brand new defensive pairing on a do or die game when it's not clear that Ruhwedel is a step down from Schultz. If Schultz were definitively better than Ruhwedel, then sure. You should always play your best players, but they're at best even and chemistry is an important tie breaker.
- Victoro311

Yeah there was a 9 or 10 game in a row period this season that Rikk-Rud was a thing and during that time they were statistically the best pairing on the team during that time. Now having said that, JJ was moved up and Letang was out I believe, still though, it doesnt dismiss the fact that the pairing is more effective than any pair JJ has been involved with haha.

I'd go with...

Zucker-Sid-Sheary
Jake-Geno-Rust
Marleau-McCann-Horn
ZAR-Blue-Tanev

Letang/Dumo
Petts/Marino
Riikola/Ruh

Jarry

That third line started to find themselves in Game 2. Sully should have let them continue to settle in and that third pair just needs to go.

I've said this before, but I prefer Jarry to Murray and while one goal last night is on Murray, I'd be ok if they stayed with him. I honestly think he's been pretty damn solid and has come up with very timely saves.

I get all the hate for JJ and Murray... Mostly deserved. I also get the hate for Sheary but don’t think he’s been horrible either. I’m not a sheary fan at all. But I think sheary has been better then Malkin all 3 games and nobody is hating on Malkin? I know Wilson tells us over and over and over it’s only cuz he has bad line mates and it’s cuz of JJ but we know Malkin many times can become disengaged and be less then half the player he can be at times and he’s showing it 100% right now.

I'd go with...

Zucker-Sid-Sheary
Jake-Geno-Rust
Marleau-McCann-Horn
ZAR-Blue-Tanev

Letang/Dumo
Petts/Marino
Riikola/Ruh

Jarry

That third line started to find themselves in Game 2. Sully should have let them continue to settle in and that third pair just needs to go.

I've said this before, but I prefer Jarry to Murray and while one goal last night is on Murray, I'd be ok if they stayed with him. I honestly think he's been pretty damn solid and has come up with very timely saves.
- Rinosaur

Ive totally missed why McCann was out....he wasn't a healthy scratch, was he?

This team hasn’t been the same since MAF and Ian Cole were shipped out. I’m not saying what had to be done with Flower shouldn’t have been but… there’s something to be said for personality and how a person affects the rest of the team. And, it’s obvious to me that Cole brought something to the defensive group other than stalwart defensive skills (hes a bottom pair guy). It’s a shame to trade someone because the coach thinks they talk too much especially when they are a “glue” type player/person.

Ive totally missed why McCann was out....he wasn't a healthy scratch, was he?
- MattStrat

Yeah he was. And he's been bad, so ok. But Lafferty was worse and he should draw back in.

If McCann is still out tomorrow, Adam Johnson gets my vote over Lafferty.

Yeah he was. And he's been bad, so ok. But Lafferty was worse and he should draw back in.
- Victoro311

Thats crazy...and yes he should. I just suggested A Johnson over Lafferty but McCann should be above both of those no matter what if he's healthy.

Hopefully he draws back in and plays like someone shot out of a canon.

I get all the hate for JJ and Murray... Mostly deserved. I also get the hate for Sheary but don’t think he’s been horrible either. I’m not a sheary fan at all. But I think sheary has been better then Malkin all 3 games and nobody is hating on Malkin? I know Wilson tells us over and over and over it’s only cuz he has bad line mates and it’s cuz of JJ but we know Malkin many times can become disengaged and be less then half the player he can be at times and he’s showing it 100% right now.
- pens4life-66

I dont think Malkin has been THAT bad, just hasnt produced a lot. Its a 3 game sample size. He's made some lazy errant passes for sure that have stuck out, but he's also been responsible for a lot of chances for the Pens....or at least thats why my eyes tell me...

I get all the hate for JJ and Murray... Mostly deserved. I also get the hate for Sheary but don’t think he’s been horrible either. I’m not a sheary fan at all. But I think sheary has been better then Malkin all 3 games and nobody is hating on Malkin? I know Wilson tells us over and over and over it’s only cuz he has bad line mates and it’s cuz of JJ but we know Malkin many times can become disengaged and be less then half the player he can be at times and he’s showing it 100% right now.
- pens4life-66

The difference is that while it's frustrating to see Malkin play at a lower level when you know he can be a world beater, Malkin at his worst is still making positive impacts on the ice, even if they're further between. On the other hand, it can be argued that Johnson lost Game 1 for us with stupid goals against he had a direct hand in. It can be argued that Murray with some help from Johnson lost Game 3 for us. Malkin not being in prime form just isn't near the issue that Johnson and Murray have been. If Geno playing like he is right now were our biggest problem, we'd being going into tomorrow either up 2-1 or 3-0.

I say this as a fan of his with what he did / does for us...

But I have to think Guds would be better than both JJ & JS back there for Pens.

Esp @ only 4 mil.

Thats crazy...and yes he should. I just suggested A Johnson over Lafferty but McCann should be above both of those no matter what if he's healthy.

Hopefully he draws back in and plays like someone shot out of a canon.
- MattStrat

Don't forget we still have Rodrigues. We should not be dipping into A. Johnson quality players in the playoffs, and if Sullivan draws him in, I'm joining the Sullivan = Bylsma people.

Ive totally missed why McCann was out....he wasn't a healthy scratch, was he?
- MattStrat

Yep. Health-bomb.

Biggest difference for me(however as an outsider without really knowing many details) between now and your previous Cup runs is the lack of that 3rd legit scoring line. The secondary scoring depth isn’t there, and I might consider a serious shake up of the line combos on those top 3 lines(ZAR-Blueger-Tanev should remain in tact as the 4th line).

Again I’m sure there are other issues and things I’m not aware of, but regardless I’m positive at least some of the blame should go towards the lack of a Cup caliber 3rd line.
- SimpleJack

Thing is it should be. McCann's game disappeared in January but for half a season he played at a 30 goal pace with strong 2 way play. Hornqvist had a nice bounceback season. That should form the core of a good 3rd line.

Not a Pens fan but maybe some credit goes to Montreal. Price has looked very sharp and the big three on defence, especially Petry have been strong. It was mentioned the Pens bench lacked emotion. In a one goal playoff game? There does seem to be signs it's time for an ovehaul, but the Penguins as constituted should have enough to topple the Habs.
- Hardbalz

Montreal was deeply underrated coming into this series. Better than the Pens, no, but a lot of people never looked past their record. And those 2 20 year old centers are improving a lot throughout the season.

Ryan Wilson, we know you have it in for Jack Johnson no matter what. Even if he turned in a Norris Trophy performance, you'd find fault with him. So, who would be your whipping boy if he was sat down and the Pens still lost.

Don't forget we still have Rodrigues. We should not be dipping into A. Johnson quality players in the playoffs, and if Sullivan draws him in, I'm joining the Sullivan = Bylsma people.
- Victoro311

Oh yeah, Rod...but in all honestly, A Johnson is someone who Ive always liked what Ive seen from and he never gets the call. I think he majorly injured the beginning of this or last season though perhaps?

I just went back and watched all the Habs goals. Its not just JJ...Schultz has blame too, especially on the 2nd goal. It was Schultz's man (Byron) he didn't have tied up/wasn't playing hard enough that just deflected the shot in the crease.

The 3rd and 4th goals Ive seen goalies stop many, many times. On the 3rd goal Murray doesn't stretch to cover far post with toe/pad...just not strong there at all....and that 4th goal, Ive seen him scored on like this a few times before. Over the shoulder. Down at the post when he shouldn't be. Wide open gaping hole there haha.

1st goal against was 3 rebounds. He didnt have much help with the players in front of him but he could of also not gave up 3 rebounds/tried to cover it, he was also way out of his crease.
- MattStrat

JJ, Murray, Schultz and Marleau are the biggest problems in that order. Switching them out should tip the series.

But when it comes to matching up against the best teams, a lot of players aren't doing their job well enough and it includes some of the best players. Malkin, Jake, Dumoulin in particular are struggling. Rust has been fine, but not the super Rust we got this year.

Of course, admitting their are others to blame doesn't absolve JJ at all. It's amazing Sully has no confidence at all in Riikola yet complete confidence in JJ.

The attention to detail away from the puck wasnt there like it was in game 2 either. I think thats a big reason Murrays stats were so good that game...he didnt have to make many big saves and there wasn't a lot of 2nd and 3rd chances for the Habs.

Have to remember Julian had last change last night...and was probably salivating for the chance to put who he wants out against that bunk 3rd pairing.