This thread shows exactly why stuff like kneeling is so necessary. The ignorance in the United States is astonishing. It's not really their fault though since so much of their history and what's actually going on in their country is hidden from them to make them feel better about being American.

People can only be outraged about kneeling for so long before they actually look into what's actually going on and realize how clueless they've been and how they look like giant idiots for arguing against it.
- Hunkulese

Right on!

blah, blah, blah

Human rights?!!!

How bout they kneel for China, or Russia, or 100 other countries before they start blasting the human rights violations in America
- rrentz

Blah blah blah

I’m a rube

Blah blah blah

I've not heard anyone that has even come close to defending the actions of the officer to knelt on Mr. Floyd. He has been and deserves to be condemned for his actions.

You are right in saying that the absolute numbers are not really relevant, but bringing up the total populations of each group is equally as irrelevant. The important stat to look at is the number of people in each group that are having aggressive interactions with the police (for this particular discussion).

It cannot be disregarded that there is a disproportionate amount of violent crime committed by one particular group. You also have to look at the deaths vs the total number of interactions to try and determine how widespread the problem is. It also is not insignificant to look at the number of officers that are killed at the hands of violent offenders (of any race).

The first bolded is a very important question. Is it poor training, mental state, racism, personal, etc? These are all things that need to be addressed.

The second bolded is pure speculation. There is a mountain of evidence (video footage and reporting) showing that rioters (not to be confused with peaceful protesters, as I believe they are two distinct groups) destroyed properties, started fires, and in some cases attacked people. I won't rule out the possibility that it may have happened, but without evidence, the claim is dubious at best.
- Chunk

I don't want to misread this but are you actually placing doubt that there have been riots, looting andattacks on physical property and people in the insurrection that is going on?

So until America is amongst the worst there is no need to improve?

How can looking to make America even greater be taken as a negative?
- ght120

It certainly shouldn't be taken as a negative. There are a few problems at play here. The US government is set up for gridlock. That is bad in terms of quickly getting things done, but good in terms of trying to be sure that a slight majority can't force their desires on a large minority.

Another problem is bad ideas with good intentions. Ex: on its surface, the "war on drugs" sounds like a good idea. The government wants to protect it's citizens from harmful chemicals. The problem is that it basically just made the target chemicals much more lucrative. There have been a lot of laws and initiatives that began with very pure intentions that ended up making the problem worse.

This is not to say that we should not try. There are many areas where the US should (and needs to) improve. It just won't happen at the pace that many want.

Very Well Said.
- Amanion

Nope.

Numbskull
- bruceflyers

You've universally lost any legitimacy, here. I trace it to you deleting your big bear avatar and the random lunacy you drop in each and every thread.

Marxist analysis is employed by the left, center, and right. Don't believe me? Ask wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

Are you actually serious here?

Do you believe black people have an equal opportunity to attend good schools, get good jobs with equal pay etc?
- InglewoodJack77

They don't even have the equal opportunity to get a taxi in NYC, saw it firsthand many, many times.

I don't want to misread this but are you actually placing doubt that there have been riots, looting andattacks on physical property and people in the insurrection that is going on?
- MJL

Certainly not. I didn't proofread, but that is nowhere near what I was trying to say. I was responding to the point made that police were setting fires to make the protesters look bad.

Agreed.

The problem is what will make an actual difference?

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is a complete re-write of your first amendment.

Other than that, change has been happening, albeit too slowly for most people's liking. Even in my lifetime I have seen significant progress. It is going to take a while.
- Aetherial

I don't see what a change in the first amendment has to do with anything but I'm open to hearing why. The US has made great strides in the last half century. Still have a ways to go. I think each person can start by simply trying to be better. The ways right now that our society is going about it is a waste of time.

Certainly not. I didn't proofread, but that is nowhere near what I was trying to say. I was responding to the point made that police were setting fires to make the protesters look bad.
- Chunk

Okay I misread that. I'm glad. Sorry for the confusion.

You've universally lost any legitimacy, here. I trace it to you deleting your big bear avatar and the random lunacy you drop in each and every thread.

Marxist analysis is employed by the left, center, and right. Don't believe me? Ask wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism
- Only_A_Ladd

If you’re in canada...you can check into a psych ward...for free...please look into it. Thanks.

If you’re in canada...you can check into a psych ward...for free...please look into it. Thanks.
- bruceflyers

dull knife, this one.

Are you actually serious here?

Do you believe black people have an equal opportunity to attend good schools, get good jobs with equal pay etc? If your answer is "yes they do" then you seriously need to go do actual research, or even better go to the websites of the biggest companies in your region, and look at their leadership - if it was equal, more often than not it should be there too (let me save you some time - It's not)

If you believe "no they don't" then that's where it begins -
Their parents would've had a harder time getting a job, maybe had to work two.
which means less parenting. Kids watch their parents struggle to make ends meet and take a perceived easier way because they don't believe they have a shot either. Leads to crime
Crime in the US as a black person leads to longer/harsher punishment https://www.sentencingpro...rt-on-racial-disparities/ go to section C "sentencing"
this means they're less likely to make it out of the system and integrated back into society because the US prison system is about making money https://www.sentencingpro...rowth-in-private-prisons/

Elevated crime stats and the other things listed in the post are "outcomes" of centries long systemic oppression and racism. If you don't address the root problem you never fix the outcomes.

So if kneeling during an anthem ruffles enough feathers for others to look at what's been happening to the black community forever. Then I'm all for it, they've tried telling people over and over it was happening to no avail.
- InglewoodJack77

The soft bigotry of low expectations. A good number of my friends of the persuasion you speak could not disagree with you more.

How do you explain that MILLIONS of black Americans and other minorities that have found success and affluence in society?

That systemic racism exists in all the democrat run liberal utopias who have destroyed more human potential with their moronic policies. The primary policy is lack of responsibility and accountability for ones actions. They sold this bill of goods to generations in hopes that one day they would rise up and be their cannon fodder in their marxist revolution. Much to the dismay of these moronic leaders, the majority of the idiots lining up are spoiled white kids. Most minorities see thru the nonsense.

But as far as it plays out in taking a knee and the mental gymnastics the dip poop athletes engage in to appear cool, these idiots, like the other sports, are poopting where they eat. They jump on a political bandwagon and say its not political.

Hockey is the only sport that has a chance and they can't help themselves. They walked a thin line with the Canadien dumbass taking a knee for the American Anthem, while standing for his "black face" PM Trudeau.

In the end, they all have the freedom to do what they want. No one questions that. But as fans we have the freedom to spend our time and financially support whatever we want as well.

Most of these guys are like Christmas and Easter Christians, who only show up to church when the lights are brightest. Let me know when the NBA, BLM, MLB, NFL, Lebron, Lehner or any other athlete dippoop acknowledges or says or where's a shirt with the name of the latest 5 year old mowed down in Chicago or any other liberal utopia. They will never do it or even acknowledge it.

They sit in their ivory towers encouraging people to riot and destroy and to remove the police, while being staffed by private security.

There is a big world with a lot of history that many can learn from. This story has been played out many times. It always ends the same.

In 2 or 3 years, baseball will be lucky to have the salaries they had in the 70s. The NBA is selling their soul to China in hopes of a pay day. The NFL will be flag football before too long. Nobody will support any of it.

Richardskin and Lehner are exhibit A and B when it comes to athletes being dumbpoops. Talk about tone deaf. Do your homework guys.

There has never been a country that has advanced the common good or more people, that has provided unparalleled opportunity and social advancement than the USA. All these athletes are living proof, but many seem to dumb to realize it.

Sports has always been a place for us to come and escape the chaos of our everyday lives. Now the chaos is amplified by some of the least informed. Firing out hashtags and retweeting is hardly activism or the means to any change, that is all the energy most of the kneelers can expend.

Lastly, there is no doubt that there are and will always be issues related to race and ethnicity. So long as there is limited opportunity and resources, there always will be. The vast majority of people in the USA treat people fairly and recognize the progress that has occurred in this country. It will never be perfect, but to suggest that somehow it has not gotten progressively better over time is pure ignorance and lacks any historical perspective. Guys like Dumba and others, who I believe have their heart in the right place, would do so much more if they actually added to the discourse and spoke specifically about issues, instead of casting a net and broad stroke painting most of society with broad generalizations, which, ironically, they resent being done to them.

If you’re in canada...you can check into a psych ward...for free...please look into it. Thanks.
- bruceflyers

your.

...according to MJL

They don't even have the equal opportunity to get a taxi in NYC, saw it firsthand many, many times.
- golfingsince

way i've always seen it is like it's a football game. whites vs. blacks (a bit reductive but just go with it.) now, for the entire first quarter, blacks were not allowed to field any defenders. so naturally, whites ran up a sizable lead by the time blacks were able to put any defenders on the field. blacks claw their way back into the game over the last 3 quarters but end up losing by 10, and then the whites pat themselves on the back for their hard earned win and get to say things like "well maybe if they would have worked as hard as us..."

The soft bigotry of low expectations. A good number of my friends of the persuasion you speak could not disagree with you more.

How do you explain that MILLIONS of black Americans and other minorities that have found success and affluence in society?

That systemic racism exists in all the democrat run liberal utopias who have destroyed more human potential with their moronic policies. The primary policy is lack of responsibility and accountability for ones actions. They sold this bill of goods to generations in hopes that one day they would rise up and be their cannon fodder in their marxist revolution. Much to the dismay of these moronic leaders, the majority of the idiots lining up are spoiled white kids. Most minorities see thru the nonsense.

But as far as it plays out in taking a knee and the mental gymnastics the dip poop athletes engage in to appear cool, these idiots, like the other sports, are poopting where they eat. They jump on a political bandwagon and say its not political.

Hockey is the only sport that has a chance and they can't help themselves. They walked a thin line with the Canadien dumbass taking a knee for the American Anthem, while standing for his "black face" PM Trudeau.

In the end, they all have the freedom to do what they want. No one questions that. But as fans we have the freedom to spend our time and financially support whatever we want as well.

Most of these guys are like Christmas and Easter Christians, who only show up to church when the lights are brightest. Let me know when the NBA, BLM, MLB, NFL, Lebron, Lehner or any other athlete dippoop acknowledges or says or where's a shirt with the name of the latest 5 year old mowed down in Chicago or any other liberal utopia. They will never do it or even acknowledge it.

They sit in their ivory towers encouraging people to riot and destroy and to remove the police, while being staffed by private security.

There is a big world with a lot of history that many can learn from. This story has been played out many times. It always ends the same.

In 2 or 3 years, baseball will be lucky to have the salaries they had in the 70s. The NBA is selling their soul to China in hopes of a pay day. The NFL will be flag football before too long. Nobody will support any of it.

Richardskin and Lehner are exhibit A and B when it comes to athletes being dumbpoops. Talk about tone deaf. Do your homework guys.

There has never been a country that has advanced the common good or more people, that has provided unparalleled opportunity and social advancement than the USA. All these athletes are living proof, but many seem to dumb to realize it.

Sports has always been a place for us to come and escape the chaos of our everyday lives. Now the chaos is amplified by some of the least informed. Firing out hashtags and retweeting is hardly activism or the means to any change, that is all the energy most of the kneelers can expend.

Lastly, there is no doubt that there are and will always be issues related to race and ethnicity. So long as there is limited opportunity and resources, there always will be. The vast majority of people in the USA treat people fairly and recognize the progress that has occurred in this country. It will never be perfect, but to suggest that somehow it has not gotten progressively better over time is pure ignorance and lacks any historical perspective. Guys like Dumba and others, who I believe have their heart in the right place, would do so much more if they actually added to the discourse and spoke specifically about issues, instead of casting a net and broad stroke painting most of society with broad generalizations, which, ironically, they resent being done to them.
- TrueGrit

don't think Rush Limbaugh could have put it any better

The soft bigotry of low expectations. A good number of my friends of the persuasion you speak could not disagree with you more.

How do you explain that MILLIONS of black Americans and other minorities that have found success and affluence in society?

That systemic racism exists in all the democrat run liberal utopias who have destroyed more human potential with their moronic policies. The primary policy is lack of responsibility and accountability for ones actions. They sold this bill of goods to generations in hopes that one day they would rise up and be their cannon fodder in their marxist revolution. Much to the dismay of these moronic leaders, the majority of the idiots lining up are spoiled white kids. Most minorities see thru the nonsense.

But as far as it plays out in taking a knee and the mental gymnastics the dip poop athletes engage in to appear cool, these idiots, like the other sports, are poopting where they eat. They jump on a political bandwagon and say its not political.

Hockey is the only sport that has a chance and they can't help themselves. They walked a thin line with the Canadien dumbass taking a knee for the American Anthem, while standing for his "black face" PM Trudeau.

In the end, they all have the freedom to do what they want. No one questions that. But as fans we have the freedom to spend our time and financially support whatever we want as well.

Most of these guys are like Christmas and Easter Christians, who only show up to church when the lights are brightest. Let me know when the NBA, BLM, MLB, NFL, Lebron, Lehner or any other athlete dippoop acknowledges or says or where's a shirt with the name of the latest 5 year old mowed down in Chicago or any other liberal utopia. They will never do it or even acknowledge it.

They sit in their ivory towers encouraging people to riot and destroy and to remove the police, while being staffed by private security.

There is a big world with a lot of history that many can learn from. This story has been played out many times. It always ends the same.

In 2 or 3 years, baseball will be lucky to have the salaries they had in the 70s. The NBA is selling their soul to China in hopes of a pay day. The NFL will be flag football before too long. Nobody will support any of it.

Richardskin and Lehner are exhibit A and B when it comes to athletes being dumbpoops. Talk about tone deaf. Do your homework guys.

There has never been a country that has advanced the common good or more people, that has provided unparalleled opportunity and social advancement than the USA. All these athletes are living proof, but many seem to dumb to realize it.

Sports has always been a place for us to come and escape the chaos of our everyday lives. Now the chaos is amplified by some of the least informed. Firing out hashtags and retweeting is hardly activism or the means to any change, that is all the energy most of the kneelers can expend.

Lastly, there is no doubt that there are and will always be issues related to race and ethnicity. So long as there is limited opportunity and resources, there always will be. The vast majority of people in the USA treat people fairly and recognize the progress that has occurred in this country. It will never be perfect, but to suggest that somehow it has not gotten progressively better over time is pure ignorance and lacks any historical perspective. Guys like Dumba and others, who I believe have their heart in the right place, would do so much more if they actually added to the discourse and spoke specifically about issues, instead of casting a net and broad stroke painting most of society with broad generalizations, which, ironically, they resent being done to them.
- TrueGrit

Hey Bruce: LOOK! A Marxist analysis. But he's not a communist.

The soft bigotry of low expectations. A good number of my friends of the persuasion you speak could not disagree with you more.

How do you explain that MILLIONS of black Americans and other minorities that have found success and affluence in society?

That systemic racism exists in all the democrat run liberal utopias who have destroyed more human potential with their moronic policies. The primary policy is lack of responsibility and accountability for ones actions. They sold this bill of goods to generations in hopes that one day they would rise up and be their cannon fodder in their marxist revolution. Much to the dismay of these moronic leaders, the majority of the idiots lining up are spoiled white kids. Most minorities see thru the nonsense.

But as far as it plays out in taking a knee and the mental gymnastics the dip poop athletes engage in to appear cool, these idiots, like the other sports, are poopting where they eat. They jump on a political bandwagon and say its not political.

Hockey is the only sport that has a chance and they can't help themselves. They walked a thin line with the Canadien dumbass taking a knee for the American Anthem, while standing for his "black face" PM Trudeau.

In the end, they all have the freedom to do what they want. No one questions that. But as fans we have the freedom to spend our time and financially support whatever we want as well.

Most of these guys are like Christmas and Easter Christians, who only show up to church when the lights are brightest. Let me know when the NBA, BLM, MLB, NFL, Lebron, Lehner or any other athlete dippoop acknowledges or says or where's a shirt with the name of the latest 5 year old mowed down in Chicago or any other liberal utopia. They will never do it or even acknowledge it.

They sit in their ivory towers encouraging people to riot and destroy and to remove the police, while being staffed by private security.

There is a big world with a lot of history that many can learn from. This story has been played out many times. It always ends the same.

In 2 or 3 years, baseball will be lucky to have the salaries they had in the 70s. The NBA is selling their soul to China in hopes of a pay day. The NFL will be flag football before too long. Nobody will support any of it.

Richardskin and Lehner are exhibit A and B when it comes to athletes being dumbpoops. Talk about tone deaf. Do your homework guys.

There has never been a country that has advanced the common good or more people, that has provided unparalleled opportunity and social advancement than the USA. All these athletes are living proof, but many seem to dumb to realize it.

Sports has always been a place for us to come and escape the chaos of our everyday lives. Now the chaos is amplified by some of the least informed. Firing out hashtags and retweeting is hardly activism or the means to any change, that is all the energy most of the kneelers can expend.

Lastly, there is no doubt that there are and will always be issues related to race and ethnicity. So long as there is limited opportunity and resources, there always will be. The vast majority of people in the USA treat people fairly and recognize the progress that has occurred in this country. It will never be perfect, but to suggest that somehow it has not gotten progressively better over time is pure ignorance and lacks any historical perspective. Guys like Dumba and others, who I believe have their heart in the right place, would do so much more if they actually added to the discourse and spoke specifically about issues, instead of casting a net and broad stroke painting most of society with broad generalizations, which, ironically, they resent being done to them.
- TrueGrit

To sum up, non of the nonsense going on is going to accomplish anything real. Colin Kapernick. The only person in the US who is oppressed with a net worth of 20M.

holy crap dudes
- BINGO!

nothing holy about this crap

To sum up, non of the nonsense going on is going to accomplish anything real. Colin Kapernick. The only person in the US who is oppressed with a net worth of 20M.
- MJL

ah yes. the old "the black man gets paid to play football so he cannot be oppressed" argument.

There are two separate issues here that are confronting the NHL. One is the treatment of minority players during their hockey careers (Juniors on up) as explained by Aliu and others. They deserve to be heard and to be treated equally as others. I have no problem with that.

The second issue is Black Lives Matters and all that they represent. Not only is BLM based upon several lies, they are a hate group, a Marxist organization, that has repeatedly called for and glorified the killing of Police Officers. Their most famous "spokesperson" is Colin Kaepernick who has glorified several cop killers on his social media pages and donated money to organizations named for Cop Killer. I have zero respect for him and others like him.

The mass media, in its infinite penchant to distribute Yellow Journalism, has failed to present facts that show the other side. To wit, if you were to read the FBI UCI stats, you would find that for the past 20+ years the US has seen, on average, 160 Police Officers assaulted every day or 1 every 9 minutes of every day of every year. 47 of those Officers have been killed or injured every day or 1 every 30 minutes. Officers have been shot every 3 hours and 43 minutes on average, stabbed every 8 hours, injured or killed with what the FBI describes as "dangerous weapons" every 75 minutes, and the rest are hands and feet. Lest you think "unarmed men" are not dangerous, they kill more people each year than all rifles and shotguns combined and more in any 2 consecutive years than in all of the mass shootings with assault rifles over the past 60 years.

In less than 2% of the times an Officer is assaulted is a suspect killed and in less than 6% of the times an Officer is killed or injured is a suspect killed. The problem is not Police Violence; it is Violence against the Police .. and the majority perpetrators of Violence against the Police are "People of Color" who have walked up to Officers and killed them or set them up in ambushes in virtually every State of the US.

For several years now, there has been a movement from the Left across North America to do everything possible to eliminate any consequences for criminal actions committed by "Underserved" or "People of Color". California eliminated penalties for those participating in crimes where someone is shot, several States have reduced penalties for burglaries and have seen the rates for those skyrocket, eliminate cash bail and have seen crime rates skyrocket, and now the want to defund the police. Minneapolis Police just announced that the populace should cooperate with criminals and give up their hard earned assets because they can't protect them any longer. Be prepared to see that coming to a City near you unless we change our way of thinking.
- hockeygm

Your post is a curious mixture of rant and eloquence.

First, please keep the Marxist part out of it. Its evident you know nothing about the term, and equate it with some sort of horrendous evil.

Let me say that I am no Marxist. I do not believe it to be a viable mechanism to run a modern state. There are huge theoretical issues with it.

At the same time, you should understand that zillions of peaceful productive governments have adopted Marxist principles and have not just survived but flourished. There are many political parties who are sympathetic to Marxist principles who have come to power in the western world alone. I will be happy to name them for you.

Second, you have again come up with the usual nonsense about liberal utopia and rising crime. Allow me to direct you about "skyrocketing crime rates".

https://fivethirtyeight.c...-in-the-u-s-theyre-wrong/

🤣🤣🤣
That's a convient argument. Hope the kneeled for both anthems.

So why haven't NHL'ers been kneeling for the human rights violations from China, or the sweat shops in Indonesia and Vietnam where all there personalized brands are being manufactured? I think it's a load of crap that they are kneeling and the excuse that they are using a anarchist political movement group to voice that opinion, it has no room as paying customers who pay the @NHL to watch games but are subjected to have to watch a bunch of millionaires whom a majority of lived in middle class homes and had nothing to do with the disparities of the world, why aren't they protesting at Nike, Under Armour, or any of the NBA's sneaker factories in South East Asia for there slave labour?

Wow, this is getting good. I don't agree with what Reeve's said about fighting for freedom and then coming home and seeing your not free or something. He needs to go walk a line in some of these poop-hole countries, and then tell me if he feels free here when he comes back.

blah, blah, blah

Human rights?!!!

How bout they kneel for China, or Russia, or 100 other countries before they start blasting the human rights violations in America
- rrentz

Why? They live in America/Canada and want them to be better. What’s wrong with that?