Hi Chunk,

It probably doesn't make sense unless you read my initial post plus "TrueGrits" response.

To sum it up it was saying that unless you start to make a change systemically at the root, all the outcomes listed can't change. It not saying the companies are racist. Lets say your take engineering at a low end school and get good grades and someone from an ivy league school takes engineering but gets low grades. Do you think the non-Ivy leaguer gets more or less than the other person? 100% they get less because its preceived that they went to a lesser school. Now take that back to when they're a child, if they don't have access to a good school because of where they live or finances they will always be in the same track. The cycle continues over and over. That has to start with an acknowledgment that the system may not be setup for them to succeed or worse maybe set up for those people to fail.

Guess what? those people are predominantly black.
- InglewoodJack77

My apologies for IJ77, I neglected the more pertinent part of your post (I get long winded obviously). I'm all in on trying to find ways to improve the living conditions and education environment for those in poor neighborhoods. I don't personally believe racism is the reason for the continued problems. I believe most of it is either minimal benefit to improving the results (from a governmental/state point of view), or regulations that don't allow certain collected funds to be distributed to those areas. I think there can be an equitable compromise to fix these things, but I don't see how pitting one group of people against another helps the situation.

It is politics, Conservatives see it as disrespectful. Liberals hate the US and tradition to its core and institutions and disrespect the flag. Systemic racism is a myth created by the social engineers to perpetuate further chaos and division. Goal, Communism. Divide,then conquere. Useful idiots will be swayed by tribalism and division under the guise of "fighting racism". By doing so they become racists themselves with inflated over generalizations of percesution and victimhood. Then create a scapegoat class, to perpetuate that racism they seemingly are against. Mass media and establishment social media and tech companies sponsored by China and left wing governments and billionaire financiers like George Soros fund this propaganda through universities and all spectrums.
No longer is sports sports, sports is now an Avenue to form opinion on social issues through propaganda and indoctrination. It's not about a debate, it's about tell you what to think, and shaming you if you dont agree.
- Puck Possession

It is politics, Conservatives see it as disrespectful. Liberals hate the US and tradition to its core and institutions and disrespect the flag. Systemic racism is a myth created by the social engineers to perpetuate further chaos and division. Goal, Communism. Divide,then conquere. Useful idiots will be swayed by tribalism and division under the guise of "fighting racism". By doing so they become racists themselves with inflated over generalizations of percesution and victimhood. Then create a scapegoat class, to perpetuate that racism they seemingly are against. Mass media and establishment social media and tech companies sponsored by China and left wing governments and billionaire financiers like George Soros fund this propaganda through universities and all spectrums.
No longer is sports sports, sports is now an Avenue to form opinion on social issues through propaganda and indoctrination. It's not about a debate, it's about tell you what to think, and shaming you if you dont agree.
- Puck Possession

And your tribe unites with nationalism and pretend-time-nostalgia about a time in this country that never existed for all of its citizens. You see how this works? It seems the leaders of our country benefit by dividing its worker bees and management class and making them fight over scraps. You scream about George Soros, and the left screams about John Calhoun statues. The reality? You don't have jack sh*t and neither do I compared with those that pull the levers of power. We're the same, but I'd rather fight you then the guy with the boot on both our necks. Weird conundrum we find ourselves in, no?

My apologies for IJ77, I neglected the more pertinent part of your post (I get long winded obviously). I'm all in on trying to find ways to improve the living conditions and education environment for those in poor neighborhoods. I don't personally believe racism is the reason for the continued problems. I believe most of it is either minimal benefit to improving the results (from a governmental/state point of view), or regulations that don't allow certain collected funds to be distributed to those areas. I think there can be an equitable compromise to fix these things, but I don't see how pitting one group of people against another helps the situation.
- Chunk

Racism exists and is certainly an issue but I agree that racism is not the main reason for the issues. We have a class and education issue in the US.

And your tribe unites with nationalism and pretend-time-nostalgia about a time in this country that never existed for all of its citizens. You see how this works? It seems the leaders of our country benefit by dividing its worker bees and management class and making them fight over scraps. You scream about George Soros, and the left screams about John Calhoun statues. The reality? You don't have jack sh*t and neither do I compared with those that pull the levers of power. We're the same, but I'd rather fight you then the guy with the boot on both our necks. Weird conundrum we find ourselves in, no?
- Only_A_Ladd

Now this we are in agreement on.

Please, lets not get sidetracked into evading the issue.

You made a spectacularly astounding claim. According to you, there is enormous mis-classification of patients as Covid when they are not actually infected.

Take a Jane Doe. She comes to the hospital with suspected Covid. There are specific protocols, specific tests, specific treatments, specific diagnostics. In particular, the lung scans, as you know, are of tremendous significance as is the monitoring of hypoxia. Kidney function would be the second most likely organ to be tested.

Each of these tests will be a matter of accessible records. The patient can claim them at any time. If a patient does not have Covid but is classified as such, then an entire battery of tests and scans would have to be faked. And not just one patient, hundreds of thousand across the country, by multiple hospitals.

So, tell me in detail, at which stage this happens, and how. Please be specific.
- PT21

“Lung scans”? I’m assuming you mean a chest CT or CTA? Lung scan? That’s a new one never heard that one before. Do you think there aren’t other viruses, symptoms, that present exactly the same as covid 19? Most of them do. Most patients that died from covid 19 died from respiratory failure bought on by fluid in the lungs by the patients hyper active immune response. Patients have similar symptoms from the common flu, viral pneumonia, various traumatic events even, god knows thousands of other ailments. That’s the point and you’re missing it because you clearly have absolutely no understanding of what we’re discussing right now that has become abundantly clear with this post.

The only way to clearly differentiate a covid 19 patient from any other patient and let me remind you I’m saying clearly with true validation since we’re really starting to split hairs is with a specific test for covid 19. A swab. To be clear. Not Chest CT or CTA or “lung scan” as you call it. There’s no need to “fake” a scan patients experience these same exact symptoms for multiple ailments. It is not a true validation of covid 19 infection.

The one differentiator was thrombogenic events that younger patients experienced but oddly that seems to be isolated to NY which some are saying is a mutation but clearly that would not be a true, 100% diagnosis’s of a covid 19 patient. With that said you should know all of this... I’m not sidetracked. Not at all...

Do you have any kind of medical degree? Are there any other type of medical conditions that can effect the lung and kidneys? Here are the simple facts. The CDC has guidelines for reporting Covid deaths. It states that Coronavirus Disease 2019 or COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death. It's also well documented that there have been many mistakes found in the reporting of infections. A patient comes in with a positive Covid-19 infection and also has a heart condition. While hospitalized, the patient has a heart attack and dies. That's listed as a Civid-19 death. Was anything faked? No, but what did the patient really die from?
- MJL

Most people that die from AIDS don't actually die from AIDS......... Pneumonia is a common one. Denying that AIDS is a primary factor would be irresponsible wouldn't it?

I also have a medical degree from the university of youtube.

Like how a team like the Oilers have a player who is black, Asian, and East Indian. But the banner says we skate for BLACK LIVES. Yeah, that's a great step towards equality and justice.
- Kooleus

This comment pretty much says it all.

This movement is an unoriginal idea that made its way into the nhl without thought, input or discussion.

The police kill more white people every year yet for some reason no one can name 5 of them.

Most people that die from AIDS don't actually die from AIDS......... Pneumonia is a common one. Denying that AIDS is a primary factor would be irresponsible wouldn't it?

I also have a medical degree from the university of youtube.
- golfingsince

Correct. How many other viruses do you think have the same symptoms as covid 19?

Most people that die from AIDS don't actually die from AIDS......... Pneumonia is a common one. Denying that AIDS is a primary factor would be irresponsible wouldn't it?

I also have a medical degree from the university of youtube.
- golfingsince

Pneumonia is a complication of AIDS. In the example I offered, the heart disease is not a complication of Covid-19.

“Lung scans”? I’m assuming you mean a chest CT or CTA? Lung scan? That’s a new one never heard that one before. Do you think there aren’t other viruses, symptoms, that present exactly the same as covid 19? Most of them do. Most patients that died from covid 19 died from respiratory failure bought on by fluid in the lungs by the patients hyper active immune response. Patients have similar symptoms from the common flu, viral pneumonia, various traumatic events even, god knows thousands of other ailments. That’s the point and you’re missing it because you clearly have absolutely no understanding of what we’re discussing right now that has become abundantly clear with this post.

The only way to clearly differentiate a covid 19 patient from any other patient and let me remind you I’m saying clearly with true validation since we’re really starting to split hairs is with a specific test for covid 19. A swab. To be clear. Not Chest CT or CTA or “lung scan” as you call it. There’s no need to “fake” a scan patients experience these same exact symptoms for multiple ailments. It is not a true validation of covid 19 infection.

The one differentiator was thrombogenic events that younger patients experienced but oddly that seems to be isolated to NY which some are saying is a mutation but clearly that would not be a true, 100% diagnosis’s of a covid 19 patient. With that said you should know all of this... I’m not sidetracked. Not at all...
- Cptmjl

He's trying to fake having some medical expertise when it is clear that he has none.

Correct. How many other viruses do you think have the same symptoms as covid 19?
- Cptmjl

Plenty do.

That said, I don't think there's really a need to downplay the severity of Covid19. What it has accomplished in it's first 7 months of activity is remarkable.

The US failed on it's response, that's pretty clear. The largest issue IMO was a disconnect between leadership and the medical community. You put good people in important positions for a reason, to do their job. If you start micromanaging that without proper knowledge it's a recipe for disaster in any field.

Are the numbers legit? It's hard to say, and won't likely be fully known for another year. In the meantime, best to hedge your bets.

Pneumonia is a complication of AIDS. In the example I offered, the heart disease is not a complication of Covid-19.
- MJL

Actually there is plenty of evidence to suggest that coronavirus does attack organs.

Also, pneumonia is one complication of AIDS. It stems from lack of immune response.

He's trying to fake having some medical expertise when it is clear that he has none.
- MJL

Any patient experiencing symptoms of the common flu, syncope, digestive discomfort, Christ a headache were put in isolation if it was available during the peak to protect the staff and other patients. None of these symptoms were clear, defining, diagnosis of being covid 19 positive but they were treated as such until they got better or didn’t... Everyone seems to forget we didn’t have the testing capabilities initially. Same, exact, situation, with h1n1.

“Lung scans”? I’m assuming you mean a chest CT or CTA? Lung scan? That’s a new one never heard that one before. Do you think there aren’t other viruses, symptoms, that present exactly the same as covid 19? Most of them do. Most patients that died from covid 19 died from respiratory failure bought on by fluid in the lungs by the patients hyper active immune response. Patients have similar symptoms from the common flu, viral pneumonia, various traumatic events even, god knows thousands of other ailments. That’s the point and you’re missing it because you clearly have absolutely no understanding of what we’re discussing right now that has become abundantly clear with this post.

The only way to clearly differentiate a covid 19 patient from any other patient and let me remind you I’m saying clearly with true validation since we’re really starting to split hairs is with a specific test for covid 19. A swab. To be clear. Not Chest CT or CTA or “lung scan” as you call it. There’s no need to “fake” a scan patients experience these same exact symptoms for multiple ailments. It is not a true validation of covid 19 infection.

The one differentiator was thrombogenic events that younger patients experienced but oddly that seems to be isolated to NY which some are saying is a mutation but clearly that would not be a true, 100% diagnosis’s of a covid 19 patient. With that said you should know all of this... I’m not sidetracked. Not at all...
- Cptmjl

Scans/imaging are a common collective term used to describe CT/MRI/X-ray. As you know, very often, the lungs of Covid patients have some very distinctive lesions, which are often described as "glass-like." In the same spirit, those thrombogenic events you describe (correct about the kids in NY being affected) were hardly restricted to kids. It is actually a very common cause of Covid death in the young.

But lets not get diverted into digressions.

Here is a way we can easily solve this issue.

Take a patient with Covid, use median age of death which is early 70s in the US, male and black/hispanic and describe the typical trajectory of treatment, and then tell me the exact nature of mis-classification.

Unfortunately, the costs for Obamacare were not figured properly. The program itself cost a lot more than the proposal, and most of the people I spoke to that had to use it said that their insurance cost more than it had before implementation.

Unfortunately, I don't have a true frame of reference for everyone, as most of the people I spoke to either owned a small business, or worked for one. I'm sure it did help a lot of people at or below the poverty line, but I don't have much info to back that up.
- Chunk

Trump called our Medicare in Canada socialist. That idiot is a capitalist of course he doesn’t want it.

How is it we can afford it but a so called wealthy nation doesn’t want to pay for it?

We can walk into the hospital or clinic or the doctor & not be refused. It’s not if you are fortunate to afford it.

Now this we are in agreement on.
- MJL

You just agreed with a Marxist argument.

The outcome of that conundrum is where the human proclivity for mischief, evil, and the abuse of power comes in. None of us trust the other side because we project our worst fears on to them, and we know that those in the other tribe have the capacity to inflict great pain. It has happened for eons when there is a rotation in the seat of power.

The right is petrified right now because the left is nearing the ascendency.

Plenty do.

That said, I don't think there's really a need to downplay the severity of Covid19. What it has accomplished in it's first 7 months of activity is remarkable.

The US failed on it's response, that's pretty clear. The largest issue IMO was a disconnect between leadership and the medical community. You put good people in important positions for a reason, to do their job. If you start micromanaging that without proper knowledge it's a recipe for disaster in any field.

Are the numbers legit? It's hard to say, and won't likely be fully known for another year. In the meantime, best to hedge your bets.
- golfingsince

No where in any of my posts did I downplay the severity of covid 19. I stated the numbers in a mortality rate sense are absolutely inflated which they are. Birx has even admitted to it and was soon after condemned for saying it. It is a highly contagious virus with a mortality rate that’s probably going to wind up around .60%. That’s significant as compared to most viruses we’ve dealt with in the last 100 years. I say this having lost friends from this virus. I’m not downplaying it.

Scans/imaging are a common collective term used to describe CT/MRI/X-ray. As you know, very often, the lungs of Covid patients have some very distinctive lesions, which are often described as "glass-like." In the same spirit, those thrombogenic events you describe (correct about the kids in NY being affected) were hardly restricted to kids. It is actually a very common cause of Covid death in the young.

But lets not get diverted into digressions.

Here is a way we can easily solve this issue.

Take a patient with Covid, use median age of death which is early 70s in the US, male and black/hispanic and describe the typical trajectory of treatment, and then tell me the exact nature of mis-classification.
- PT21

Nobody in any country calls a CT a lung scan so let’s stop with the well it’s a scan mantra. You just went into nano world to try and validate your point which has changed multiple times. Thromobigenic events in the young was primarily isolated to NY you saying it is “very common” is not factual. In fact most of these patients were treated with tPA and responded nicely. I stated you can’t truly diagnose a covid 19 patient without a specific covid 19 test. That is a fact. You can suspect a covid infection with CT, any symptoms which can be multiple other viruses not just covid 19, etc. That’s the point. It’s not a clear diagnosis but you should understand that no? Me going over the process of diagnosis, isolation, treatment for a minority patient in their 70’s accomplishes what exactly? As you said let’s not digress. Wowza.

No where in any of my posts did I downplay the severity of covid 19. I stated the numbers in a mortality rate sense are absolutely inflated which they are. Birx has even admitted to it and was soon after condemned for saying it. It is a highly contagious virus with a mortality rate that’s probably going to wind up around .60%. That’s significant as compared to most viruses we’ve dealt with in the last 100 years. I say this having lost friends from this virus. I’m not downplaying it.
- Cptmjl

I don't really buy it, not until i've seen more data. I've seen data from other countries on year over year deaths that says the opposite.

Sorry for the loss of your friends, I wasn't trying to insult you. I just see a laissez-faire attitude from so many people regarding this virus including my friends and coworkers and at times my own wife when it inconveniences them. It drives me crazy. Eradication is possible, it's been proven in areas.

How do Americans judge Trump on his handling of this mess?

2nd term worthy?

How do Americans judge Trump on his handling of this mess?

2nd term worthy?
- Nighthawk

That's really not our problem.

Elephant and the mouse.

That's really not our problem.

Elephant and the mouse.
- golfingsince

Lol

Well the voters who toe the party line should look in the mirror.

I don't really buy it, not until i've seen more data. I've seen data from other countries on year over year deaths that says the opposite.

Sorry for the loss of your friends, I wasn't trying to insult you. I just see a laissez-faire attitude from so many people regarding this virus including my friends and coworkers and at times my own wife when it inconveniences them. It drives me crazy. Eradication is possible, it's been proven in areas.
- golfingsince

Yeah I’m not someone who has a casual approach when it comes to protecting myself from this virus. Quite the opposite actually. Wasn’t trying to give that impression. Everyone has their own opinions which is fine and who knows if we’ll all hear ALL of the truth. Most likely not.

How do Americans judge Trump on his handling of this mess?

2nd term worthy?
- Nighthawk

That’s a whole other discussion and I’ve put way to much time and energy into hockeybuzz for one evening.