Read the following and tell me how good socialism is. In 2017 the average Venezuelan lost 24lbs while Maduro and Chavez are/were fat fuks. 90% live in poverty. Socialism is a peach. Go find out for yourself. Half of North America is obese, so yeah...Socialism is wonderful.

https://www.reuters.com/a...ezuela-food-idUSKCN1G52HA
- madmike71

Well when the most powerful nation in the USA, threatens other nations with sanctions if they trade with Venezuela, it's kind of hard to sell your oil.

Not many countries have the ability to fight wars with the USA.

FREE to leave anytime?
Underground railway go read about it.
- Nighthawk

The underground railroad literally came through my town (suburb of Pittsburgh). We have houses less than a mile from where I grew up that white abolitionists hid escaping slaves. They have hidden rooms and tunnels connecting them to other houses.

Are we going to talk about 2020 or 1820?

You cannot be seriously asking me this. But since you did. We all have racial biases that have been instilled in us, by family members, schooling, media and what now. Understanding these biases is important for us to move past our racist ideas.

It took lots of meditation and reading to recognize myself as a progressive person was holding onto some of these ideals. BLM has liberated me and I am much more quick to recognize a racial thoughs and feelings.
- TheUltimateJet

This theory is trash. As a human being that treats everyone equally unless given a reason not to do so I don’t need to be lectured that I must crusade against perceived rascism and that’s it’s everywhere.
Oh wait that’s just my white privilege.
- bird_dog_pa

I am glad you are recognizing your privileged position in society.

I agree. Guess it hurts some peoples feelings when you state the obvious and they still don’t agree with common sense.
- Cptmjl

Truth should always be the highest priority.

Just make sure that what you consider truth is not affected by your political ideology and you are getting your truth from as many sources of as high a quality as possible.

Venezuela is socialist. You guys do know there’s a difference between Marxism and Socialism, right?
- neem55

Socialism, in the simplest terms, is the sharing of wealth in society.

Marxism is "the dream of communism", or the assumed Utopia that can be achieved through socialistic means.

Communism is basically an extremist version of socialism where everyone has equal "income".

Socialist policies aren't bad by nature, in fact they are responsible for a lot of good. The problem comes when they are either abused by those using or corrupted by those running the program. Unfortunately, in the US there is so much power to be had in controlling how much and where money goes that it really isn't feasible. Not to mention the fact that the way our government is set up is extremely slow and wasteful/inefficient.

Allow me to correct you and explain about the contrast.

Here is a quote from the CDC:

"From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus."

This means there were about 1000 deaths a month.

The first Covid 19 death in the US happened in Feb 29. That's a little over 5 months ago. We have had over 153k deaths so far.

That's about 1000 deaths a day.

You see the difference?
- PT21

Where does the CDC get their numbers from? That’s a serious question. Read my post above about government reimbursement. Google it. Coding and reimbursement for covid 19 patients. Doesn’t your side like to say research?

Socialism, in the simplest terms, is the sharing of wealth in society.

Marxism is "the dream of communism", or the assumed Utopia that can be achieved through socialistic means.

Communism is basically an extremist version of socialism where everyone has equal "income".

Socialist policies aren't bad by nature, in fact they are responsible for a lot of good. The problem comes when they are either abused by those using or corrupted by those running the program. Unfortunately, in the US there is so much power to be had in controlling how much and where money goes that it really isn't feasible. Not to mention the fact that the way our government is set up is extremely slow and wasteful/inefficient.
- Chunk

Great point!

Where does the CDC get their numbers from? That’s a serious question. Read my post above about government reimbursement. Google it. Coding and reimbursement for covid 19 patients. Doesn’t your side like to say research?
- Cptmjl

So, if I understand correctly, you are claiming there is a financial incentive to claim a patient has died from Covid 19 for hospitals, right? I have heard that claim many times before.

So, if I understand correctly, you are claiming there is a financial incentive to claim a patient has died from Covid 19 for hospitals, right? I have heard that claim many times before.
- PT21

This sounds like a conspiracy theory!

Truth should always be the highest priority.

Just make sure that what you consider truth is not affected by your political ideology and you are getting your truth from as many sources of as high a quality as possible.
- PT21

Of course. My political opinions have no basis on whether I deem something factual or not. Saying the virus isn’t being transmitted during protests is doing exactly that. Whoever actually believes that drivel either does so because of their opinion or they’re a complete idiot.

So, if I understand correctly, you are claiming there is a financial incentive to claim a patient has died from Covid 19 for hospitals, right? I have heard that claim many times before.
- PT21

It’s not a claim. It’s a fact. Google it. There is a financial gain for every procedure, what medication a doctor prescribes, whether they use a particular machine, device during said procedure. For everything. There’s was no government reimbursement for swine flu till the last couple weeks of it.

Hospitals weren’t permitted to do elective procedures in some instances for months. That is the only real way hospitals make money. You think I’m lying? Look up what I just stated.

Socialism, in the simplest terms, is the sharing of wealth in society.

Marxism is "the dream of communism", or the assumed Utopia that can be achieved through socialistic means.

Communism is basically an extremist version of socialism where everyone has equal "income".

Socialist policies aren't bad by nature, in fact they are responsible for a lot of good. The problem comes when they are either abused by those using or corrupted by those running the program. Unfortunately, in the US there is so much power to be had in controlling how much and where money goes that it really isn't feasible. Not to mention the fact that the way our government is set up is extremely slow and wasteful/inefficient.
- Chunk

Socialism will never be scalable. Never. You always end up with more people in the cart than pulling the cart.

1 in 5 marriages in the USA last year were inter-racial. While there are absolutely some bad apples that need to be dealt with swiftly and vigorously, there is no "systemic" racism in the USA.

The question in the 80s was "how would you feel if your son or daughter brought home a (black, asian, arabic, jewish, fill in your own blank) boyfriend or girlfriend?"

To me this question is laughable in 2020, it's absurd, and I think most people would agree. It's laughable because it really doesn't matter. WHO CARES what their color is, where they came from, etc.

I will tell you what parents DO care about however, they care about whether their kid brings home a loser. No motivation, no values, no goals, no drive, no dreams, no work ethic, no self worth....you know...like a liberal. (hehe)

Socialism will never be scalable. Never. You always end up with more people in the cart than pulling the cart.
- madmike71

Neither is capitalism. Only with big government has capitalism been successful.

Great point!
- TheUltimateJet

I'm fine with social programs, but they end up eating the host if too widespread and not properly managed. In general, Capitalism is still the most powerful means of pulling people out of poverty, but it cannot be "strict" Capitalism, otherwise you get corruption and too much concentrated power as well.

I would love to see what a negative income tax could do, but I doubt it would ever even make it to a vote here.

So now we’re saying Christianity is bad and must be expunged from the earth?
- Cptmjl

Oh not just Christianity, id be cool with all religion seen as it is: a business. They should be taxed and held accountable just like any other corporation.

Oh not just Christianity, id be cool with all religion seen as it is: a business. They should be taxed and held accountable just like any other corporation.
- neem55

Oh ok you took away my next point.

Socialism, in the simplest terms, is the sharing of wealth in society.

Marxism is "the dream of communism", or the assumed Utopia that can be achieved through socialistic means.

Communism is basically an extremist version of socialism where everyone has equal "income".

Socialist policies aren't bad by nature, in fact they are responsible for a lot of good. The problem comes when they are either abused by those using or corrupted by those running the program. Unfortunately, in the US there is so much power to be had in controlling how much and where money goes that it really isn't feasible. Not to mention the fact that the way our government is set up is extremely slow and wasteful/inefficient.
- Chunk

I agree. That’s where i see a lot of social democracy working out in the world, where socialism itself failed. While communism is less likely to have a reboot, it was useful to learn about and see where it brike down or in Chinas case is currently breaking down.

Socialism, in the simplest terms, is the sharing of wealth in society.

Marxism is "the dream of communism", or the assumed Utopia that can be achieved through socialistic means.

Communism is basically an extremist version of socialism where everyone has equal "income".

Socialist policies aren't bad by nature, in fact they are responsible for a lot of good. The problem comes when they are either abused by those using or corrupted by those running the program. Unfortunately, in the US there is so much power to be had in controlling how much and where money goes that it really isn't feasible. Not to mention the fact that the way our government is set up is extremely slow and wasteful/inefficient.
- Chunk

I agree. That’s where i see a lot of social democracy working out in the world, where socialism itself failed. While communism is less likely to have a reboot, it was useful to learn about and see where it brike down or in Chinas case is currently breaking down.

It’s not a claim. It’s a fact. Google it. There is a financial gain for every procedure, what medication a doctor prescribes, whether they use a particular machine, device during said procedure. For everything. There’s was no government reimbursement for swine flu till the last couple weeks of it.

Hospitals weren’t permitted to do elective procedures in some instances for months. That is the only real way hospitals make money. You think I’m lying? Look up what I just stated.
- Cptmjl

Just fyi, I am a faculty member (part time) in a Public Policy School in an university. Nowadays, much of my job consists of reading research, talking to infectious specialist doctors, talking to researchers, talking to state administrators and in general being steeped in essentially every element of Covid. We are currently preparing a large document for a hospital chain in the east.

What you are describing is a conspiracy/financial malpractice of the sort that simply cannot occur on a significant scale. The scale of the deception would be too large, and the stakes of it being discovered would be too heinous.

1. First, most patients who are admitted to hospital are already diagnosed with Covid, by a lab that is independent of the hospital. In general, until a patient has severe symptoms, especially respiratory, they will not be admitted. These tests take several days to come by. Its not like going to a hospital and getting a CT scan.

2. Second, the protocol for treatment is often very expensive and detailed.

3. All the social contacts of the infected have to be quarantined. The hospital has to inform the state.

I am very aware of the inflated billing practices of hospitals for treatment, of Tylenol pills being billed at $45 a pill and so on. But there is a huge difference between inflating bills and misdiagnosing. That is a criminal offense. The government will prosecute, the hospital would lose its accreditation, the insurers would prosecute, and the patient and their loved ones would prosecute.

In other words, use your common sense, and stop seeing a conspiracy about everything.

16,800. Do you think those are factual numbers? There was no government reimbursement for swine flu. Do you understand what that means?

Do you have any idea how much a hospital gets paid for every covid admitted patient?

Covid patient that’s intubated?

Covid patient that dies on site?

Look it up. It’s public information.

After you look that up I’ll ask you if the covid mortality rate is factual in the US? Before you answer that multiple epidemiologist and physicians have already said that it’s 25-50% less then what you’re seeing. Birx stated it as well recently.
- Cptmjl

Yes it is a lot! Good news for provate healthcare. I live in Canada, so the conspiracy is less believable for sure. Also we dont have a leader that started by denying the validity of the threat. He’s not perfect, but he’s done well woth covid.
Also, 19,000 is a drop in the bucket in comparison to 160k. Obviously with such a low mortality rate in comparison (19k/68mil to what 160k/2mil) is significantly more threatening.

So, if I understand correctly, you are claiming there is a financial incentive to claim a patient has died from Covid 19 for hospitals, right? I have heard that claim many times before.
- PT21

In the US, this is a fact. It’s almost like they could really use some socialized healthcare... perhaps name it after a president.... some kind of “Obamacare” for example.

Because police brutality and discrimination doesn’t have a monetary value. It’s a systemic issue where how policing is done needs to change.
- neem55

Not true. Numbers and arrest reports don't support that narrative. Holy Crap...keep eating the fodder.

Viewing a few videos in TV doesn't exactly show the truth either. Just watched newly released Floyd full video. Cop was still wrong and deserving of prosecution, but it shows what the cops were dealing with beforehand

I am glad you are recognizing your privileged position in society.
- TheUltimateJet

This is where the mistakes are being made. Actually thinking that this changes anything. That we actually need to recognize it for real change to happen. That's horsepoop and I'm glad it makes some people feel better. The real discussion needs to revolve around why do certain people have a "privileged position" and how to do help those who don't.

In the US, this is a fact. It’s almost like they could really use some socialized healthcare... perhaps name it after a president.... some kind of “Obamacare” for example.
- neem55

There is a financial incentive because of the money being thrown around. But there are tremendous repercussions. Remember, in the US we are also a land of litigation.

What he was saying actually did happen in a country. That is Belgium, not the US. Anyone who had any disease remotely like Covid, especially in a nursing home, was classified as such, even without a Covid test.

https://www.npr.org/secti...-suspected-covid-19-cases