And you can throw fire services on that pile, too.

They've never faced any scrutiny of their budgets, ever.
- Atomic Wedgie

why stop there. teachers unions too.

hell, almost every government agency/department is bloated.

why stop there. teachers unions too.

hell, almost every government agency/department is bloated.
- Tumbleweed

Now were talking. This is the politicsbuzz discussions I can get behind.

did you see an increase in education levels? I assume you did. what do you think are some of the biggest reasons kids do finish school / improvements made to get more kids to finish school?
- Tumbleweed

Well I retired before the first cohort of early learners graduated but the evidence is pretty strong internationally. But I am pretty sure this will have been one of the best things we could have done. It was expensive as poop though.

One of the biggest explanations of successful outcomes is simply family circumstances. Kids growing up in with parents that go to post-secondary are way more likely tom go themselves.

Parental involvement, and setting expectations even when the parents haven't gone on themselves is important.

School principals are really important. A good principal can really do a lot to improve outcomes in their schools.

All in all, Canada/Ontario does really well and has the best or one of the best post secondary attainment rates in the world.

Nothing I do
Nothing I say
I tell them go get (frank)ed
They put me away

Understand we're fighting a war
We can't win
They hate us, we hate them
We can't win
No way

in honor of some guy who posted this gif on a regular basis - this thread asks for it...


- MaximusAurelius

to much Sangria eh!

Sangria (virtually nobody drinks it, except for the tourists):



https://www.pizcadesabor.com/como-hacer-sangria/
- MaximusAurelius

I dislike that drink.

Well I retired before the first cohort of early learners graduated but the evidence is pretty strong internationally. But I am pretty sure this will have been one of the best things we could have done. It was expensive as poop though.

One of the biggest explanations of successful outcomes is simply family circumstances. Kids growing up in with parents that go to post-secondary are way more likely tom go themselves.

Parental involvement, and setting expectations even when the parents haven't gone on themselves is important.

School principals are really important. A good principal can really do a lot to improve outcomes in their schools.

All in all, Canada/Ontario does really well and has the best or one of the best post secondary attainment rates in the world.
- Canada Cup

Quebec's total on-time graduation rate stands at about 69%, and that's considering that their high school ends at the equivalent of grade 11.

why stop there. teachers unions too.

hell, almost every government agency/department is bloated.
- Tumbleweed

I've worked in government and private sector and there is lots of waste in both. For provincial governments the vast majority of spending is on education, health and social services.

Every election parties make promises that they can't really afford because they refuse to come clean with the real cost of those promises.

When Ministries develop proposals they are constantly told to go back and re-work them with "more realistic" financial options which just means bring me something I can sell.

The public wants stuff roads, services, etc, but doesn't want to pay the taxes needed to fund that stuff and wants government just to punt the cost down the road to everybody's kids.

Quebec's total on-time graduation rate stands at about 69%, and that's considering that their high school ends at the equivalent of grade 11.
- TheMussel

Yeah, as I remember on-time graduation stats get a little funky. I know my kid and all his buddies stayed and did their victory lap year cause they were all on the hockey team and they won the regional championships.

Try working that into the stats.

Look at policing as a business and treat it as such.

Police budgets (the majority of them) increase year after year, yet we keep hearing how crime is so bad and getting worse. So.........if increasing their budget is not accomplishing anything much, then what would a business do? You'd start firing, re-hiring, re-training, and re-budgeting.

I wish I could suck at my job and keep getting paid.

The police and politicians can't have it both ways. Either money produces results, or stop pumping money into a broken system that isn't working. To further the business-speak analogy - all of this investment is producing poor returns for the shareholders.

Nobody is saying get rid of the police entirely, except for some far-left anarchists and far-right boogaloo types - neither represent the majority of their end of the spectrum. The minute somebody says to abolish the police entirely is the moment you stop taking them seriously.

#DefundThePolice is a catchy hashtag and that is all it is. It sounds better than #ModeratelyCutTheBudgetOfThePoliceAndInvestThatMoneyIntoSocialServices, although I am sure the right-wing types would have a problem with it either way you put it. Some people just like the taste of boots and pumping money into failed enterprises.

My wife's side of the family has several police officers in it, including an internal affairs investigator, a sex crimes detective, a retired chief of police, and a SWAT officer. I hear all the "boys in blue" stuff on a regular basis. And frankly. most of them are good guys who work hard and are sorely underpaid for what they do - where is all that police budget money going if it's not going into cops' paychecks? It's going into armored vehicles, waste of time training seminars that yield no positive results, and bureaucratic waste.

Whoever came up with "defund the police" as a slogan should be slapped. It's giving the right-wingers ammunition to scare older folks into thinking anyone left of forcing starving widows to work is an anarchist who wants to completely abolish the police and let gangs of MS-13 and Antifa shocktroops take over the streets. It's stupid.

Maybe we train cops better, pay them better, and make them more accountable for their screw-ups. The rest will fall in line.

You know who else got killed by cops more frequently than other people?

(frank)ing criminals
- MaximusAurelius

And thats a problem as well
Just because you commit a crime doesn't give some power hungry cop the right to beat or kill you.

Be better

Look at policing as a business and treat it as such.

Police budgets (the majority of them) increase year after year, yet we keep hearing how crime is so bad and getting worse. So.........if increasing their budget is not accomplishing anything much, then what would a business do? You'd start firing, re-hiring, re-training, and re-budgeting.

I wish I could suck at my job and keep getting paid.

The police and politicians can't have it both ways. Either money produces results, or stop pumping money into a broken system that isn't working. To further the business-speak analogy - all of this investment is producing poor returns for the shareholders.

Nobody is saying get rid of the police entirely, except for some far-left anarchists and far-right boogaloo types - neither represent the majority of their end of the spectrum. The minute somebody says to abolish the police entirely is the moment you stop taking them seriously.

#DefundThePolice is a catchy hashtag and that is all it is. It sounds better than #ModeratelyCutTheBudgetOfThePoliceAndInvestThatMoneyIntoSocialServices, although I am sure the right-wing types would have a problem with it either way you put it. Some people just like the taste of boots and pumping money into failed enterprises.

My wife's side of the family has several police officers in it, including an internal affairs investigator, a sex crimes detective, a retired chief of police, and a SWAT officer. I hear all the "boys in blue" stuff on a regular basis. And frankly. most of them are good guys who work hard and are sorely underpaid for what they do - where is all that police budget money going if it's not going into cops' paychecks? It's going into armored vehicles, waste of time training seminars that yield no positive results, and bureaucratic waste.

Whoever came up with "defund the police" as a slogan should be slapped. It's giving the right-wingers ammunition to scare older folks into thinking anyone left of forcing starving widows to work is an anarchist who wants to completely abolish the police and let gangs of MS-13 and Antifa shocktroops take over the streets. It's stupid.

Maybe we train cops better, pay them better, and make them more accountable for their screw-ups. The rest will fall in line.
- GalacticStone

Thank you. You write stuff more better than me.

I read about a town with population of 10,000 in W. Virginia that was all excited showing off its armoured personnel carrier it had just acquired. It got nit for free from some federal program and I'm sure the folks of that town sleep better knowing that somebody its rolling down the streets trying to figure out how to make it work.

why stop there. teachers unions too.

hell, almost every government agency/department is bloated.
- Tumbleweed

Fack the teachers unions.

Look at policing as a business and treat it as such.

Police budgets (the majority of them) increase year after year, yet we keep hearing how crime is so bad and getting worse. So.........if increasing their budget is not accomplishing anything much, then what would a business do? You'd start firing, re-hiring, re-training, and re-budgeting.

I wish I could suck at my job and keep getting paid.

The police and politicians can't have it both ways. Either money produces results, or stop pumping money into a broken system that isn't working. To further the business-speak analogy - all of this investment is producing poor returns for the shareholders.

Nobody is saying get rid of the police entirely, except for some far-left anarchists and far-right boogaloo types - neither represent the majority of their end of the spectrum. The minute somebody says to abolish the police entirely is the moment you stop taking them seriously.

#DefundThePolice is a catchy hashtag and that is all it is. It sounds better than #ModeratelyCutTheBudgetOfThePoliceAndInvestThatMoneyIntoSocialServices, although I am sure the right-wing types would have a problem with it either way you put it. Some people just like the taste of boots and pumping money into failed enterprises.

My wife's side of the family has several police officers in it, including an internal affairs investigator, a sex crimes detective, a retired chief of police, and a SWAT officer. I hear all the "boys in blue" stuff on a regular basis. And frankly. most of them are good guys who work hard and are sorely underpaid for what they do - where is all that police budget money going if it's not going into cops' paychecks? It's going into armored vehicles, waste of time training seminars that yield no positive results, and bureaucratic waste.
I
Whoever came up with "defund the police" as a slogan should be slapped. It's giving the right-wingers ammunition to scare older folks into thinking anyone left of forcing starving widows to work is an anarchist who wants to completely abolish the police and let gangs of MS-13 and Antifa shocktroops take over the streets. It's stupid.

Maybe we train cops better, pay them better, and make them more accountable for their screw-ups. The rest will fall in line.
- GalacticStone

Totally agree about the slogan Defund The Police. The far left are as much a bunch of (frank)ing stupid balloonheads as their alt right counterparts. There's never been a better time to be in the centre.

One thing that rarely comes up in these debates is that crime has been going down for decades.

Now if only we could say the same about financial crimes.

And thats a problem as well
Just because you commit a crime doesn't give some power hungry cop the right to beat or kill you.

Be better
- Fakepartofme

how many cops were shot in the line of duty?

Look at policing as a business and treat it as such.

Police budgets (the majority of them) increase year after year, yet we keep hearing how crime is so bad and getting worse. So.........if increasing their budget is not accomplishing anything much, then what would a business do? You'd start firing, re-hiring, re-training, and re-budgeting.

I wish I could suck at my job and keep getting paid.

The police and politicians can't have it both ways. Either money produces results, or stop pumping money into a broken system that isn't working. To further the business-speak analogy - all of this investment is producing poor returns for the shareholders.

Nobody is saying get rid of the police entirely, except for some far-left anarchists and far-right boogaloo types - neither represent the majority of their end of the spectrum. The minute somebody says to abolish the police entirely is the moment you stop taking them seriously.

#DefundThePolice is a catchy hashtag and that is all it is. It sounds better than #ModeratelyCutTheBudgetOfThePoliceAndInvestThatMoneyIntoSocialServices, although I am sure the right-wing types would have a problem with it either way you put it. Some people just like the taste of boots and pumping money into failed enterprises.

My wife's side of the family has several police officers in it, including an internal affairs investigator, a sex crimes detective, a retired chief of police, and a SWAT officer. I hear all the "boys in blue" stuff on a regular basis. And frankly. most of them are good guys who work hard and are sorely underpaid for what they do - where is all that police budget money going if it's not going into cops' paychecks? It's going into armored vehicles, waste of time training seminars that yield no positive results, and bureaucratic waste.

Whoever came up with "defund the police" as a slogan should be slapped. It's giving the right-wingers ammunition to scare older folks into thinking anyone left of forcing starving widows to work is an anarchist who wants to completely abolish the police and let gangs of MS-13 and Antifa shocktroops take over the streets. It's stupid.

Maybe we train cops better, pay them better, and make them more accountable for their screw-ups. The rest will fall in line.
- GalacticStone

Training is key. Cops in the us get barely any training

We'll strap you to a pipe
Electrodes
On your balls
C'mon scream
C'mon writhe
Face down
In a pool of piss

C'mon bleed
C'mon bleed
C'mon bleed
Bleed for me

why stop there. teachers unions too.

hell, almost every government agency/department is bloated.
- Tumbleweed

My unpopular opinion is pretty simple. We give cops a tonne of responsibility and power but we give/ask very little of them in terms of training and experience. And then we pay them like poop.

You want to motivate a better cross section of society to become police officers then regulate better education, training and pay them better.

Better laws (decrim drugs) and better cops mean less cops needed. It pays for itself down the road. .....as long as it doesn't get abused like every other public $$.

how many cops were shot in the line of duty?
- drexel

Has nothing to do with the convo.

If someome shoots at a cop, they are allowed to reply with force.

Look at policing as a business and treat it as such.

Police budgets (the majority of them) increase year after year, yet we keep hearing how crime is so bad and getting worse. So.........if increasing their budget is not accomplishing anything much, then what would a business do? You'd start firing, re-hiring, re-training, and re-budgeting.

I wish I could suck at my job and keep getting paid.

The police and politicians can't have it both ways. Either money produces results, or stop pumping money into a broken system that isn't working. To further the business-speak analogy - all of this investment is producing poor returns for the shareholders.

Nobody is saying get rid of the police entirely, except for some far-left anarchists and far-right boogaloo types - neither represent the majority of their end of the spectrum. The minute somebody says to abolish the police entirely is the moment you stop taking them seriously.

#DefundThePolice is a catchy hashtag and that is all it is. It sounds better than #ModeratelyCutTheBudgetOfThePoliceAndInvestThatMoneyIntoSocialServices, although I am sure the right-wing types would have a problem with it either way you put it. Some people just like the taste of boots and pumping money into failed enterprises.

My wife's side of the family has several police officers in it, including an internal affairs investigator, a sex crimes detective, a retired chief of police, and a SWAT officer. I hear all the "boys in blue" stuff on a regular basis. And frankly. most of them are good guys who work hard and are sorely underpaid for what they do - where is all that police budget money going if it's not going into cops' paychecks? It's going into armored vehicles, waste of time training seminars that yield no positive results, and bureaucratic waste.

Whoever came up with "defund the police" as a slogan should be slapped. It's giving the right-wingers ammunition to scare older folks into thinking anyone left of forcing starving widows to work is an anarchist who wants to completely abolish the police and let gangs of MS-13 and Antifa shocktroops take over the streets. It's stupid.

Maybe we train cops better, pay them better, and make them more accountable for their screw-ups. The rest will fall in line.
- GalacticStone

the problem is low punishments for violent crimes (in particular for teens 14-18) and not so much the effectiveness of police. other crimes that should be punished way way more harsh are corporate crimes (in other words, make sure that top management is held personally responsible in court for criminal activities of the company. we can start with banks other financial industry organizations)

Totally agree about the slogan Defund The Police. The far left are as much a bunch of (frank)ing stupid balloonheads as their alt right counterparts. There's never been a better time to be in the centre.

One thing that rarely comes up in these debates is that crime has been going down for decades.

Now if only we could say the same about financial crimes.
- Zezel

Just because some people write signs for protests and not for presidential campaigns is no reason to go all moderate Zezel. Moderate (by American standards) is what has been (frank)ing people over and what has helped elect Trump. Time for a positive change.

Also, I think demographics might be a factor in violent crime going down as the percentage off young males has dropped.

July 28, Habs vs Leafs pre pre playoffs game (friendly) , that's the roomer

Training is key. Cops in the us get barely any training
- Fakepartofme

Chauvin was a training cop. US cops are trained in Killeology (shoot first). It may be true that they don't get enough training but the whole focus of policing is wrong.

July 28, Habs vs Leafs pre pre playoffs game (friendly) , that's the roomer
- Symba007

Keep those virus tainted Habs away from our pristine Leafs

Keep those virus tainted Habs away from our pristine Leafs
- Canada Cup

but that's the only game I hope the Habs win this summer