Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
Jul 8 @ 5:07 PM ET
Societal norms are fluid.
Up until 10-15 years ago no one cared about that stuff. But also no one cared about casual racism. Most Gen Xers are casually racist. So I’d bet that the majority of people >45 are annoyed by these changes, because it doesn’t make them uncomfortable. But they’re inconvenienced by subtle changes, and they’ll bïtch and moan about it until the day they die.
I’m not trying to shame older generations, it’s just how society was. But the pissing and whining toward younger people trying to make the world a better place is so cringe. - Arctic_AARDVARK
Not buying your argument.
The great leaps forward in human rights in the last 20 years have been largely due to the attitude shifts by and from Gen X.
When I grew up, there was no way you would come out in high school.
My daughter goes to high school with plenty of out kids.
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Jul 8 @ 5:11 PM ET
Societal norms are fluid.
Up until 10-15 years ago no one cared about that stuff. But also no one cared about casual racism. Most Gen Xers are casually racist. So I’d bet that the majority of people >45 are annoyed by these changes, because it doesn’t make them uncomfortable. But they’re inconvenienced by subtle changes, and they’ll bïtch and moan about it until the day they die.
I’m not trying to shame older generations, it’s just how society was. But the pissing and whining toward younger people trying to make the world a better place is so cringe. - Arctic_AARDVARK
Location: Split rock, Nipigon River., ON Joined: 07.24.2011
Jul 8 @ 5:17 PM ET
Not buying your argument.
The great leaps forward in human rights in the last 20 years have been largely due to the attitude shifts by and from Gen X.
When I grew up, there was no way you would come out in high school.
My daughter goes to high school with plenty of out kids.
Gen X deserves a large thanks for that shift. - Atomic Wedgie
80% Millennials
20% Gen X
Most of my aunts and uncles are genX. They don’t understand they’re saying racist poop, and when someone is being blatantly racist they never call it out.
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 8 @ 5:20 PM ET
I've made my mind up? I've made it very clear that I'm open to dialogue about the Blackhawks name. I'm open to every Native-based team name/logo across the board being challenged but they must be given fair trials on a case-by-case basis.
If you want to extend the notion of "images" to team logos, fine. I don't think that is the context by which they are referring to "images" but whatever. I've already submitted my thoughts on logos multiple times to you: change the logos and imagery to something that respects Native heritage but doesn't caricature it.
If those Native groups can provide compelling arguments as to why "Blackhawks" is derogatory, offensive, or problematic I'm open to hearing those arguments. But you have to (frank)ing provide legitimate arguments that provide evidence beyond vague notions of "cultural appropriation".
The Redskins are a slam dunk. The Blackhawks? Not so much. - mjones242
I don't think you want to hang this on logos aren't really images. When the psychological association talks about the negative impact of images, I'm going to guess that the images of natives on jerseys are included.
And I'm sorry that the American Psychological Association didn't mention the Blackhawks specifically, they just said Indian mascots, images, etc. I guess they didn't realize they needed to be listed.
Finally, and I'm going to end here, I've never used the term cultural appropriation. If you want evidence ands arguments, here are all the Whereas's in the APAs resolution before they call for the retirement of all Indian mascots, images, etc.
WHEREAS the American Psychological Association has recognized that racism and racial discrimination are attitudes and behavior that are learned and that threaten human development (American Psychological Association, June 2001);
WHEREAS the American Psychological Association has resolved to denounce racism in all its forms and to call upon all psychologists to speak out against racism, and take proactive steps to prevent the occurrence of intolerant or racist acts (American Psychological Association, June 2001);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities undermines the educational experiences of members of all communities-especially those who have had little or no contact with Indigenous peoples (Connolly, 2000; U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; Webester, Loudbear, Corn, & Vigue, 1971);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities establishes an unwelcome and often times hostile learning environment for American Indian students that affirms negative images/stereotypes that are promoted in mainstream society (Clark & Witko, in press; Fryberg, 2003; Fryberg & Markus, 2003; Fryberg, 2004a; Munson, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; Staurowsky, 1999);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities by school systems appears to have a negative impact on the self-esteem of American Indian children (Chamberlin, 1999; Eagle and Condor Indigenous People’s Alliance, 2003; Fryberg, 2004b; Fryberg & Markus, 2003; Maryland Commission on Indian Affairs, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; The Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes, 2001; Vanderford, 1996);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities undermines the ability of American Indian Nations to portray accurate and respectful images of their culture, spirituality, and traditions (Clark & Witko, in press; Davis, 1993; Gone, 2002; Rodriquez, 1998; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities presents stereotypical images of American Indian communities, that may be a violation of the civil rights of American Indian people (Dolley, 2003; King, 2001; King & Springwood, 2001; Pewewardy, 1991; Springwood & King, 2000; U. S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is a form of discrimination against Indigenous Nations that can lead to negative relations between groups (Cook-Lynn, 2001; Coombe, 1999; U. S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian symbols, mascots, images, and personalities is a detrimental manner of illustrating the cultural identity of American Indian people through negative displays and/or interpretations of spiritual and traditional practices (Adams, 1995; Banks, 1993; Nuessel; 1994; Staurowsky, 1999; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is disrespectful of the spiritual beliefs and values of American Indian nations (Churchill, 1994; Gone, 2002; Sheppard, 2004; Staurowsky, 1998);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is an offensive and intolerable practice to American Indian Nations that must be eradicated (U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities has a negative impact on other communities by allowing for the perpetuation of stereotypes and
stigmatization of another cultural group (Fryberg, 2004b; Gone, 2002; Staurowsky, 1999; U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001);
T
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 8 @ 5:21 PM ET
80% Millennials
20% Gen X
Most of my aunts and uncles are genX. They don’t understand they’re saying racist poop, and when someone is being blatantly racist they never call it out.
Zoomers will be even more progressive. - Arctic_AARDVARK
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Jul 8 @ 5:30 PM ET
I don't think you want to hang this on logos aren't really images. When the psychological association talks about the negative impact of images, I'm going to guess that the images of natives on jerseys are included.
And I'm sorry that the American Psychological Association didn't mention the Blackhawks specifically, they just said Indian mascots, images, etc. I guess they didn't realize they needed to be listed.
Finally, and I'm going to end here, I've never used the term cultural appropriation. If you want evidence ands arguments, here are all the Whereas's in the APAs resolution before they call for the retirement of all Indian mascots, images, etc.
WHEREAS the American Psychological Association has recognized that racism and racial discrimination are attitudes and behavior that are learned and that threaten human development (American Psychological Association, June 2001);
WHEREAS the American Psychological Association has resolved to denounce racism in all its forms and to call upon all psychologists to speak out against racism, and take proactive steps to prevent the occurrence of intolerant or racist acts (American Psychological Association, June 2001);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities undermines the educational experiences of members of all communities-especially those who have had little or no contact with Indigenous peoples (Connolly, 2000; U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; Webester, Loudbear, Corn, & Vigue, 1971);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities establishes an unwelcome and often times hostile learning environment for American Indian students that affirms negative images/stereotypes that are promoted in mainstream society (Clark & Witko, in press; Fryberg, 2003; Fryberg & Markus, 2003; Fryberg, 2004a; Munson, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; Staurowsky, 1999);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities by school systems appears to have a negative impact on the self-esteem of American Indian children (Chamberlin, 1999; Eagle and Condor Indigenous People’s Alliance, 2003; Fryberg, 2004b; Fryberg & Markus, 2003; Maryland Commission on Indian Affairs, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; The Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes, 2001; Vanderford, 1996);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities undermines the ability of American Indian Nations to portray accurate and respectful images of their culture, spirituality, and traditions (Clark & Witko, in press; Davis, 1993; Gone, 2002; Rodriquez, 1998; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities presents stereotypical images of American Indian communities, that may be a violation of the civil rights of American Indian people (Dolley, 2003; King, 2001; King & Springwood, 2001; Pewewardy, 1991; Springwood & King, 2000; U. S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is a form of discrimination against Indigenous Nations that can lead to negative relations between groups (Cook-Lynn, 2001; Coombe, 1999; U. S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian symbols, mascots, images, and personalities is a detrimental manner of illustrating the cultural identity of American Indian people through negative displays and/or interpretations of spiritual and traditional practices (Adams, 1995; Banks, 1993; Nuessel; 1994; Staurowsky, 1999; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is disrespectful of the spiritual beliefs and values of American Indian nations (Churchill, 1994; Gone, 2002; Sheppard, 2004; Staurowsky, 1998);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is an offensive and intolerable practice to American Indian Nations that must be eradicated (U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities has a negative impact on other communities by allowing for the perpetuation of stereotypes and
stigmatization of another cultural group (Fryberg, 2004b; Gone, 2002; Staurowsky, 1999; U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001);
T - Canada Cup
Location: Split rock, Nipigon River., ON Joined: 07.24.2011
Jul 8 @ 5:40 PM ET
I don't think you want to hang this on logos aren't really images. When the psychological association talks about the negative impact of images, I'm going to guess that the images of natives on jerseys are included.
And I'm sorry that the American Psychological Association didn't mention the Blackhawks specifically, they just said Indian mascots, images, etc. I guess they didn't realize they needed to be listed.
Finally, and I'm going to end here, I've never used the term cultural appropriation. If you want evidence ands arguments, here are all the Whereas's in the APAs resolution before they call for the retirement of all Indian mascots, images, etc.
WHEREAS the American Psychological Association has recognized that racism and racial discrimination are attitudes and behavior that are learned and that threaten human development (American Psychological Association, June 2001);
WHEREAS the American Psychological Association has resolved to denounce racism in all its forms and to call upon all psychologists to speak out against racism, and take proactive steps to prevent the occurrence of intolerant or racist acts (American Psychological Association, June 2001);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities undermines the educational experiences of members of all communities-especially those who have had little or no contact with Indigenous peoples (Connolly, 2000; U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; Webester, Loudbear, Corn, & Vigue, 1971);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities establishes an unwelcome and often times hostile learning environment for American Indian students that affirms negative images/stereotypes that are promoted in mainstream society (Clark & Witko, in press; Fryberg, 2003; Fryberg & Markus, 2003; Fryberg, 2004a; Munson, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; Staurowsky, 1999);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities by school systems appears to have a negative impact on the self-esteem of American Indian children (Chamberlin, 1999; Eagle and Condor Indigenous People’s Alliance, 2003; Fryberg, 2004b; Fryberg & Markus, 2003; Maryland Commission on Indian Affairs, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999; The Inter-Tribal Council of the Five Civilized Tribes, 2001; Vanderford, 1996);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities undermines the ability of American Indian Nations to portray accurate and respectful images of their culture, spirituality, and traditions (Clark & Witko, in press; Davis, 1993; Gone, 2002; Rodriquez, 1998; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities presents stereotypical images of American Indian communities, that may be a violation of the civil rights of American Indian people (Dolley, 2003; King, 2001; King & Springwood, 2001; Pewewardy, 1991; Springwood & King, 2000; U. S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is a form of discrimination against Indigenous Nations that can lead to negative relations between groups (Cook-Lynn, 2001; Coombe, 1999; U. S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian symbols, mascots, images, and personalities is a detrimental manner of illustrating the cultural identity of American Indian people through negative displays and/or interpretations of spiritual and traditional practices (Adams, 1995; Banks, 1993; Nuessel; 1994; Staurowsky, 1999; Witko, 2005);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is disrespectful of the spiritual beliefs and values of American Indian nations (Churchill, 1994; Gone, 2002; Sheppard, 2004; Staurowsky, 1998);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities is an offensive and intolerable practice to American Indian Nations that must be eradicated (U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001; Society of Indian Psychologists, 1999);
WHEREAS the continued use of American Indian mascots, symbols, images, and personalities has a negative impact on other communities by allowing for the perpetuation of stereotypes and
stigmatization of another cultural group (Fryberg, 2004b; Gone, 2002; Staurowsky, 1999; U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, 2001);
T - Canada Cup
Sorry, not gonna read all that.
But first and foremost, white people should cease using the word “Indian” unless specifically speaking about people from India.
Like wtf lol..
Indigenous
First Nations
Native
Aboriginal
And I saw 2001 in there somewhere, it’s too outdated.
Most of my aunts and uncles are genX. They don’t understand they’re saying racist poop, and when someone is being blatantly racist they never call it out.
Zoomers will be even more progressive. - Arctic_AARDVARK
You've got a (frank)ed up family. Doesn't mean all families are like that
Location: Split rock, Nipigon River., ON Joined: 07.24.2011
Jul 8 @ 5:55 PM ET
You've got a (frank)ed up family. Doesn't mean all families are like that - MaximusAurelius
Mine is very typical for Canada.
They don’t say hardcore racist poop, it’s just normal to hear casually racist things. It actually sucks for me because I’m literally the only person who speaks up. To be fair, they aren’t very,, uhh,, cultured?
My Dad’s side is all educated, except for Bill. He’s a racist. 1/9 ain’t too bad.
Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
Jul 8 @ 5:58 PM ET
Mine is very typical for Canada.
They don’t say hardcore racist poop, it’s just normal to hear casually racist things. It actually sucks for me because I’m literally the only person who speaks up. To be fair, they aren’t very,, uhh,, cultured?
My Dad’s side is all educated, except for Bill. He’s a racist. 1/9 ain’t too bad. - Arctic_AARDVARK
Is it typical for Canada? Gen Xers in my family are generally not casually racist. Boomers? Yeah, there's some problematic (poop) here and there but they're mostly harmless.
Sometimes I think we need to afford older generations a bit of slack. If you compare where they are now to where they were 40 years ago, usually it's night and day.
Location: This world is just a veil and the face you wear is not your own., ON Joined: 07.06.2007
Jul 8 @ 6:16 PM ET
Sorry, not gonna read all that.
But first and foremost, white people should cease using the word “Indian” unless specifically speaking about people from India.
Like wtf lol..
Indigenous
First Nations
Native
Aboriginal
And I saw 2001 in there somewhere, it’s too outdated. - Arctic_AARDVARK
Lol
How should I refer to the National Congress of American Indians then?
American Psychological Association told the country that using these symbols was harmful 15 years ago (that's when the resolution was passed) people are still on here today arguing that there's nothing wrong with the Blackhawks logo because it doesn't have the bad Redskins name.
Sorry about the bad copy and paste. I was at a critical point in cooking but Jones was asking for evidence ands all those Whereas's is the APA argues is the harm in using those images.
