i don't see anything wrong with celebrating the conquest of North America with team names, mascots, parades, monuments, parks, statues, etc etc...

It was a great thing for the world and humanity.
- kaptaan

Oh ffs.

i agree. i also don't think we should bin all the history that got us here like its something to be ashamed of...
- kaptaan

Most of it is to be ashamed of.

If you give 4 guys all the money then you can’t afford mike richards jeff carter and justin williams.

Face it...your team is F’ed.

I’m done...leaf fans are delusional.

Enjoy a playoffs with 0 chance of winning the cup!
- bruceflyers

its true that the Leafs wont be able to add players who signed 11, and12 year deals...to lower the cap hits.

some teams were able to catch lighting in a bottle and take advantage at the right time when they allowed those deals.

is there anyone that signed the 11+ year deals that actually finished them?

Respectfully, the broad brush removal of all Native mascots and and team names seems to be a bit an overplay. Don't you think it would be more prudent to decide this on a case-by-case basis?

Having said that, I'd like to know what Illinois-based Native groups feel about the Blackhawks name and logo. I honestly have very little insight into what the current view of the team is but I wonder if National organizations should necessarily trump (sorry!) local sentiment... maybe? I dunno. Kind of flailing here...

Agreed on the cancel culture irony. Talk about an all-time misfire.
- mjones242

Agreed

its true that the Leafs wont be able to add players who signed 11, and12 year deals...to lower the cap hits.

some teams were able to catch lighting in a bottle and take advantage at the right time when they allowed those deals.

is there anyone that signed the 11+ year deals that actually finished them?
- senstroll

Backstorm finished 10

OV looks to be on pace

Very hot take.

Marner probably returns a stud d-man if it's 1-1.

However, I'm always weary of trading stars because of the old adage that the winner of the trade is the one who gets the best player. I'd rather do Nylander+ for a d-man than Marner for a d-man+
- TheMussel

Even hotter take...and i know it won't happen but.

Trade JT 3 years from now for a dman.
Use the remaining cap space for a decent center

Keep the young superstars.

Ugh, i feel dirty

Even hotter take...and i know it won't happen but.

Trade JT 3 years from now for a dman.
Use the remaining cap space for a decent center

Keep the young superstars.

Ugh, i feel dirty
- Fakepartofme

Potentially declining JT with huge cap hit and NMC.

I mean... I don't disagree with you. I just don't think it could happen. He's a Leaf for the rest of his contract unless the laffs need to blow it up.

Even hotter take...and i know it won't happen but.

Trade JT 3 years from now for a dman.
Use the remaining cap space for a decent center

Keep the young superstars.

Ugh, i feel dirty
- Fakepartofme

JT is in the same boat as Stamkos.

Both would yield a top-pair elite D man right now.

In three years, not so much. Both are still in their primes, but the clock is ticking before they start regressing. Their value is not going to go up as they continue to age.

In 3 years, JT or Stamkos would get you Ristolainen. LOL.

Potentially declining JT with huge cap hit and NMC.

I mean... I don't disagree with you. I just don't think it could happen. He's a Leaf for the rest of his contract unless the laffs need to blow it up.
- TheMussel

Oh it wont happen.
I was just tossing words together.
I hate the idea of moving young superstars.
Also hate the idea of moving jt.
Ugh...leafs are f'd.
Maybe.

Yes. There is a difference between the Redskins and the Blackhawks. The difference isn't the logo - it's about the (frank)ing name. One is a racial epithet while the other is tangentially related to a Sauk leader. To spell it out for you: the Redskins name is akin to calling a team "Negroes" (or worse).

Ask yourself this question: would changing the logo of the Blackhawks to the Native designed version I posted back a few posts cause you to pivot your opinion at all?

Also, I never suggested that political activism was necessarily "nefarious". I'm suggesting that I wouldn't throw my hat in with organizations until I knew exactly what is driving their agenda and who they necessarily represent (are they an actual authority supported by the majority of Native Americans?!).

Whenever I hear about sweeping, all-encompassing propositions my skeptic alarm bells go into overdrive. They may have legitimate reasons for demanding some logos and team names to be changed... but ALL of them? Really?

The last point here isn't whether these teams will be handled on a case-by-case basis, it's whether you feel they should or they shouldn't. You seem to be supporting the notion that ALL teams should change their names and logos because some groups have suggested it.

That's your hill and you seem willing to die on it. So be it.
- mjones242

Again, it’s not my hill. The National Council of American Indians is the largest and most representative native organization in the country. It is not one of the more “radical” groups like AIM. They are the ones saying this about ALL teams, not me. They are the ones, not me that opposed to a case-by-case approach because they believe using Indian names is harmful.

If the major national organization and the one local group that had been working with the Hawks are opposed, what is your case by case argument in favour of keeping the name?

The Cleveland Indians don’t use the dreaded R word but they’re reviewing their name. But none of this is good enough for you because of your radar?

JT is in the same boat as Stamkos.

Both would yield a top-pair elite D man right now.

In three years, not so much. Both are still in their primes, but the clock is ticking before they start regressing. Their value is not going to go up as they continue to age.

In 3 years, JT or Stamkos would get you Ristolainen. LOL.
- GalacticStone

Umm no.
Sure their stock is going down.
Risto isnt great now, in 3years it may not be pretty at all.
Theyd get a risto and 2nd at least
:p

Backstorm finished 10

OV looks to be on pace
- TheMussel

both of those were signed when they are 22 or so...kinda like AM/MM/WN
and I dont think designed to be cap cheating deals like the ones that went until players were 35-43


OV deal was 18.96% of the cap in 2008

a few other points to make, its not like they didnt pay Toews/Kane, they got 11% of the cap on their second contracts. MM and JT are 13%

Also, the Hawks were able to sign Keith to a 13 year deal, making the cap hit much lower.
- senstroll

Chirelli also screwed every team when he signed mcdavid to a 100 million dollar deal. Not that he doesn’t deserve it but it accelerated all the other talented rfas.

Not all native organizations feel that way.
Some dont care about logos and mascots and have dedicated their energy on higher priority items (in their view).
So ive read

Although most would prefer to remove some of the team logos
- Fakepartofme

Of course they work on other issues. Poverty, lack of house, health care are all huge problems. I haven’t seen any organization say this issue doesn’t matter though. To me it simple. If they say it’s offensive and they do, it should be changed

Chirelli also screwed every team when he signed mcdavid to a 100 million dollar deal. Not that he doesn’t deserve it but it accelerated all the other talented rfas.
- bryant

I remember people laughing and poking fun at the Dryzsydlyl one also

JT is in the same boat as Stamkos.

Both would yield a top-pair elite D man right now.

In three years, not so much. Both are still in their primes, but the clock is ticking before they start regressing. Their value is not going to go up as they continue to age.

In 3 years, JT or Stamkos would get you Ristolainen. LOL.
- GalacticStone

Hey what are your thoughts of how the possibility of covid being a long term problem in the states might affect UFAs thinking about signing in Canada?

its true that the Leafs wont be able to add players who signed 11, and12 year deals...to lower the cap hits.

some teams were able to catch lighting in a bottle and take advantage at the right time when they allowed those deals.

is there anyone that signed the 11+ year deals that actually finished them?
- senstroll

I really thought Luongo could have done it..

Of course they work on other issues. Poverty, lack of house, health care are all huge problems. I haven’t seen any organization say this issue doesn’t matter though. To me it simple. If they say it’s offensive and they do, it should be changed
- Canada Cup

give them a casino and it's all ok.

we should really get rid of the 'longest toes wins' world.

Most of it is to be ashamed of.
- Fakepartofme

Maybe Trudeau should start with stopping selling weapons to Saudi Arabia.
I'd be more offended by that than over a sports team name if I were you.

Maybe Trudeau should start with stopping selling weapons to Saudi Arabia.
I'd be more offended by that than over a sports team name if I were you.
- MaximusAurelius

Yes. Ever since Fake was a child, the children ridiculed him because Trudeau was selling arms to Saudi Arabia. As a teenager, the police targeted him only because Trudeau was selling arms to Saudi Arabia, giving him a criminal record for possessing a trivial amount of weed. Trudeau selling arms to Saudi Arabia is really the reason that Fake is stuck in an vicious cycle of poverty and discrimination.

Your ignorant whining is getting really annoying.
I suggest you start focusing on some real world problems instead.
(Another casino will be gifted to the so called offended, and all will be fine )
- MaximusAurelius

we are not here to tackle and solved world problems. we come here to escape them.

Yes. Ever since Fake was a child, the children ridiculed him because Trudeau was selling arms to Saudi Arabia. As a teenager, the police targeted him only because Trudeau was selling arms to Saudi Arabia, giving him a criminal record for possessing a trivial amount of weed. Trudeau selling arms to Saudi Arabia is really the reason that Fake is stuck in an vicious cycle of poverty and discrimination.
- TheMussel

MLSE is looking for a VP Inclusivity & Diversity (true btw). Maybe Fake can apply.

Again, it’s not my hill. The National Council of American Indians is the largest and most representative native organization in the country. It is not one of the more “radical” groups like AIM. They are the ones saying this about ALL teams, not me. They are the ones, not me that opposed to a case-by-case approach because they believe using Indian names is harmful.

If the major national organization and the one local group that had been working with the Hawks are opposed, what is your case by case argument in favour of keeping the name?

The Cleveland Indians don’t use the dreaded R word but they’re reviewing their name. But none of this is good enough for you because of your radar?
- Canada Cup

I'm not saying that I would categorically reject their argument but I would have to see what they presented to support the removal of the Blackhawks name and/or logo.

What isn't "good enough" for me are strident, sweeping calls to remove names and mascots of ALL teams that have Native American associations. I've been arguing for case-by-case arguments to be presented. I think that's a rational and fair position to have and I don't think it's beyond reproach to call into question any organization that is calling for said sweeping changes.

Covid cap world will hurt most teams with very few other teams around to capitalize on it all. Lots of pain to share is to come.

Interesting to see which teams can navigate best through this mess.

Seattle must be licking its chops lol
- Nighthawk

Not really, Seattle couglhed up $650US to own an NHL franchise. There are currently 11 teams in the NHL (according to Forbes) worth more than $650 Million, (Pittsburgh barely quailifies at $665 Million)

And to add a little salt to that wound is the fact that revenues will be far from expectations for several years.

I would wager that Philly's GM would love to have TO's cap issues.

LA and Chicago have Cups (deserved), but they are on the decline with a roster full of geezers. Both will be in full rebuilds soon. Toronto's "cap hell" stars are in their prime or just entering their primes. TO has many years ahead to win Cups before they find themselves in LA or Chicago's shoes. Same could be said for Tampa.

If cap-hell means having 4 or 5 elite players locked down, then send me to hell.
- GalacticStone

this will be your jailer while in hell