the only player who should be in the hall of fame is Sami Kapanen's son.
- BINGO!

Fixed and then agreed.

Fixed and then agreed.
- Atomic Wedgie

cheeks klapanen

If Mogilny ain’t in, Alfredsson shouldn’t be either

that's already what it is...….Guy Carbonneau is there because he was good defensively and was the captain of the Habs
- sensarmy_11

But two wrongs don't make a right? Let's start saying that, please? :-)

oh, I totally agree that he was important to that team.....but nobody ever looked at him and thought he was the best player on that team.....hell, he wasn't even in the top 3.

cups should never be a criteria for HHOF induction, same as superbowls or world series titles. the only sport where titles should count is basketball because it's the only major NA sports league where one great player can singlehandedly make his team win....see Cleveland Cavaliers
- sensarmy_11

... I thought Hossa was the best forward and maybe the best player on the team.

Curtis Joseph is #7 ALL TIME in NHL wins.

See what I did there?
- Atomic Wedgie

except that a player scoring goals is a pretty good indication that the player is a great goal scorer, a goalie's win totals is a pretty good indication he's on a great team...….it's like comparing apples to motor oil

except that a player scoring goals is a pretty good indication that the player is a great goal scorer, a goalie's win totals is a pretty good indication he's on a great team...….it's like comparing apples to motor oil
- sensarmy_11

Nobody is suggesting that Travis Green should be elected to the HHOF based upon his hair.

... I thought Hossa was the best forward and maybe the best player on the team.
- farooge

you thought that Hossa was the best player/forward on the team at the same time as Toews was almost unanimously thought of as the 2nd best player in the world behind Crosby, and those who didn't have him at 2 had him in their top 5. come on man, Hossa was 3rd among forwards, behind both Kane and Toews, and Keith was probably a higher ranked player overall as well (with the 2 Norris trophies he won in that time frame).

I love Hossa, was my favorite player when he was in Ottawa, he isn't CLEARLY better than alfredsson. if he is better, which is absolutely debatable, it isn't by much.

Nobody is suggesting that Travis Green should be elected to the HHOF based upon his hair.
- Atomic Wedgie

James Tanner might, he did play for the leafs and probably had spectacular corsi

you thought that Hossa was the best player/forward on the team at the same time as Toews was almost unanimously thought of as the 2nd best player in the world behind Crosby, and those who didn't have him at 2 had him in their top 5. come on man, Hossa was 3rd among forwards, behind both Kane and Toews, and Keith was probably a higher ranked player overall as well (with the 2 Norris trophies he won in that time frame).

I love Hossa, was my favorite player when he was in Ottawa, he isn't CLEARLY better than alfredsson. if he is better, which is absolutely debatable, it isn't by much.
- sensarmy_11

Two very different players. My bias has Alfie > Hossa but not by much. I am not sure why some people have Hossa > Alfie by a significant margin.

Hossa was more of a pure goal scorer and key complimentary player on some great teams and Atlanta. 500+ goals is sexy to have.

Alfie had more of a playmaker style and obviously captained a team from garbage to respectability during his tenure. Like Hossa, benefited from playing with gifted players, but he actually only played with those players in key situations and was primarily used to spread out the teams depth. Something that always impressed me about Alfredsson. He made other centres better.

If Mats Sundin is a 1st ballot inductee, then Alfredsson should be there also.

their PPG is very close (sundin right at ppg, alfredsson JUST below), Alfi has individual awards, sundin has none, alfredsson has brought his team to conf finals multiple times and cup finals once, sundin never did, alfredsson was the more productive players for Sweden internationally. their playoff production was almost identical, etc.

i'm not saying Alfredsson is better than sundin, but they're close enough that if one is a 1st ballot guy, the other should absolutely be there too.

I use Sundn as a comparison because their per game stats are close, they both played in the same era, they both captained teams in Ontario, they both played internationally for the same country at the same time, etc
- sensarmy_11

Sundn has better numbers and he did bring the Leafs to the conf finals twice.

And BTW, their PPG isn't as close as you're claiming. Alfy is 90 points under being PPG, Sundin is over PPG in more games. Sundin also has 564 goals and over 1300 points. Alfu hit 400 goals, 1100 points but still a big difference.

except that a player scoring goals is a pretty good indication that the player is a great goal scorer, a goalie's win totals is a pretty good indication he's on a great team...….it's like comparing apples to motor oil
- sensarmy_11

CUJO really did not play on great teams though. Blues had 1 great year with him and then for some reason ripped apart the team and got worse. Oilers were a low budget team fighting for the final playoff spot. Leafs were good, but that's because of him. They were bad before he arrived. Coyotees were bad. Leafs 2nd trip team was horrible. Detroit was very good, but it was brief.

Mike Gartner.

Was a good player for a very long time.

Was never a superstar, ever.
- Atomic Wedgie

Come on, Gartner is easily better than Charbonneau.

CHarbonneau's 3 cups and Gartner's 0 mean nothing to me at all.

except that a player scoring goals is a pretty good indication that the player is a great goal scorer, a goalie's win totals is a pretty good indication he's on a great team...….it's like comparing apples to motor oil
- sensarmy_11

Giggy would like to have a word ...

CUJO really did not play on great teams though. Blues had 1 great year with him and then for some reason ripped apart the team and got worse. Oilers were a low budget team fighting for the final playoff spot. Leafs were good, but that's because of him. They were bad before he arrived. Coyotees were bad. Leafs 2nd trip team was horrible. Detroit was very good, but it was brief.
- RogerRoeper

i'm not debating whether or not CUJO was great (I loved CUJO, except when he was a leaf), i'm simply stating that goals are a much better indication of how good a skater is, than wins are an indication of how good a goalie is.

Come on, Gartner is easily better than Charbonneau.

CHarbonneau's 3 cups and Gartner's 0 mean nothing to me at all.
- RogerRoeper

I think a lot of players probably made it in because they played on "big market" teams, where sports media is probably over-represented, or sometimes where they came from.

ie. Carbonneau because he played for the habs, had he played his career in St. Louis or New Jersey, he's not even looked at.

I think Sundin would have eventually gotten in, but I think he was a 1st ballot guy because he played for the leafs, where there is a dis-proportional amount of voters.

i think mike modano is there because he was the first big American "star player".....but his career numbers are very similar to alfredsson (more points, but more games)

based on the precedent that has been set, and the current players in the HHOF, Alfredsson absolutely deserves to be there.

I think a lot of players probably made it in because they played on "big market" teams, where sports media is probably over-represented, or sometimes where they came from.

ie. Carbonneau because he played for the habs, had he played his career in St. Louis or New Jersey, he's not even looked at.

I think Sundin would have eventually gotten in, but I think he was a 1st ballot guy because he played for the leafs, where there is a dis-proportional amount of voters.

i think mike modano is there because he was the first big American "star player".....but his career numbers are very similar to alfredsson (more points, but more games)

based on the precedent that has been set, and the current players in the HHOF, Alfredsson absolutely deserves to be there.
- sensarmy_11

I remember being surprised that Sundin was a first ballot HOFer yet Shanahan wasn't. They both should've been first ballot IMO. Shanny went in the following year.

I remember being surprised that Sundin was a first ballot HOFer yet Shanahan wasn't. They both should've been first ballot IMO. Shanny went in the following year.
- gergeswillems

Look at the guys voting. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a run on late 80's-early 2000's guys for awhile.

I remember being surprised that Sundin was a first ballot HOFer yet Shanahan wasn't. They both should've been first ballot IMO. Shanny went in the following year.
- gergeswillems

i would have thought Shanahan was a 1st ballot guy over sundin. point totals were similar, but shanahan had that production while also amassing 2500 PIMs....guy was the ultimate power forward

Who will be the better center in 2022? --- Colin White or Josh Norris

If you had to trade 1 for 2020 low 1st?--- Logan Brown or Erik Brannstrom

Highest + lowest pick you would take? --- Yaroslav Askarov

the guy should not be in hhof

I think a lot of players probably made it in because they played on "big market" teams, where sports media is probably over-represented, or sometimes where they came from.

ie. Carbonneau because he played for the habs, had he played his career in St. Louis or New Jersey, he's not even looked at.

I think Sundin would have eventually gotten in, but I think he was a 1st ballot guy because he played for the leafs, where there is a dis-proportional amount of voters.

i think mike modano is there because he was the first big American "star player".....but his career numbers are very similar to alfredsson (more points, but more games)

based on the precedent that has been set, and the current players in the HHOF, Alfredsson absolutely deserves to be there.
- sensarmy_11

Sundin did what he did in his career without having anyone on the team even remotely close to him in talent. I love Mogilny and he's one of my all time favourite players (who should 100% be in the Hall of Fame already) but he was a shell of his former self when he was a Leaf and he's probably, arguably, the best player Sundin played with.

I think it's the opposite of what you said. If Sundin played somewhere else, other than the Leafs, more people (fans) wouldn't be confused at, and opposed to, him being a 1st ballot Hall of Famer, that he rightly and correctly is.

Sundin did what he did in his career without having anyone on the team even remotely close to him in talent. I love Mogilny and he's one of my all time favourite players (who should 100% be in the Hall of Fame already) but he was a shell of his former self when he was a Leaf and he's probably, arguably, the best player Sundin played with.

I think it's the opposite of what you said. If Sundin played somewhere else, other than the Leafs, more people (fans) wouldn't be confused at, and opposed to, him being a 1st ballot Hall of Famer, that he rightly and correctly is.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Antropov, Pocahontas, Hoglund and Modin. Just to name a few. Poor Mats. Wings and Leafs had a trade worked out in 2008 but he wouldn't waive his NTC.

Antropov, Pocahontas, Hoglund and Modin. Just to name a few. Poor Mats. Wings and Leafs had a trade worked out in 2008 but he wouldn't waive his NTC.
- gergeswillems

Photo of them on Sundin's wings-

Photo of them on Sundin's wings-





- GreatGigInTheSky

Pretty much. Ol' Pat Quinn loved to roll his 4 lines no matter what. Mix up the strawberry shortcake with the doggy bag.