For me, the hall should be about greatness over longevity. Alfie was quite good for a long time, and very durable, but he was never a top five (ten?) player in the league. He doesn’t belong.

Especially when guys like Mogilny and Turgeon still aren’t in.

It’s a shame that the committee suffers from temporary insanity, and allows guys like Carbonneau, Gillies and Federko in. Carbonneau is maybe the weakest selection of all time. Except for the refs. Don’t even get me started on the fact that we have effing REFS in the hall. What an insult to the players

Absolutely, these guys were ultimate hockey players. Sometimes these HOF voters need to get away from the flash and get to the heart and soul of the game.

Steve Larmer before ending ending up in NY was skating RAT hockey in Chicago suburbs. A great guy a every day hockey guy.
- Tee56

That's what I mean by "subjective." Any Isles fan who watched those dynasty teams of the 80s knows just how valuable both Gillies and Tonelli were to those Cup winning teams. But to most non Isles fans it's like "Why is Gillies in the HHOF?"

Hawks fans love Steve Larmer. He was a heart and soul leader for Chicago and he finally won his Cup with the Rangers. I understand you can't put every very good player in the HHOF.

But I still don't understand the criteria in choosing which ones make it and which ones don't. Mogilny not being in the HHOF pi$$es me off because he was better than many of the players who are in there now.

I also believe stats aren't everything. They're important but they don't tell the whole story.

it's not a bias.....every sens fan who says he should be there is throwing up statistics and facts to show why he's equal to or better than a lot of people already in there......everyone who says he shouldn't is simply saying "he's not good enough".....so if anything, the bias is being shown by people who say he shouldn't
- sensarmy_11

When a great player spends most of their career on a team like Ottawa people never acknowledge their accomplishments as much as players on more established franchises. If Alfie had played in Toronto everyone would be lining up to eat the corn out of his poop. Not a knock on Toronto. Just saying.

This is why stats support Alfie being in the HOF but you hear all these excuses to dismiss it.

For me, the hall should be about greatness over longevity. Alfie was quite good for a long time, and very durable, but he was never a top five (ten?) player in the league. He doesn’t belong.

Especially when guys like Mogilny and Turgeon still aren’t in.

It’s a shame that the committee suffers from temporary insanity, and allows guys like Carbonneau, Gillies and Federko in. Carbonneau is maybe the weakest selection of all time. Except for the refs. Don’t even get me started on the fact that we have effing REFS in the hall. What an insult to the players
- AxlRose91

I agree with you. But that's just it. The bar has been lowered by letting players in who weren't great. The criteria has changed. We can't go back now. The horse is out of the barn.

That's what I mean by "subjective." Any Isles fan who watched those dynasty teams of the 80s knows just how valuable both Gillies and Tonelli were to those Cup winning teams. But to most non Isles fans it's like "Why is Gillies in the HHOF?"

Hawks fans love Steve Larmer. He was a heart and soul leader for Chicago and he finally won his Cup with the Rangers. I understand you can't put every very good player in the HHOF.

But I still don't understand the criteria in choosing which ones make it and which ones don't. Mogilny not being in the HHOF pi$$es me off because he was better than many of the players who are in there now.

I also believe stats aren't everything. They're important but they don't tell the whole story.
- gergeswillems

The manufactured exclusivity of the whole thing is just dumb. If they belong then let em in. Why the nonsense of a limited number per year?

The manufactured exclusivity of the whole thing is just dumb. If they belong then let em in. Why the nonsense of a limited number per year?

- mgriffen

Popularity contest.

Popularity contest.
- gergeswillems

Yeah so doesn't that degrade the meaning behind being inducted? Fans know who was great.

Well Alf was on an absolutely stacked Ottawa team for quite some time, so I don't think that's completely fair to use against Hossa.

Regardless, Alf belongs in the HHOF. He wasn't usually the best player on that team but he was an excellent leader and player for many years. He was the face of the org for like a decade. Whatever else was going on with Yashin, Heater, Redden, or Spezza, Alf was the Ottawa Senators. The guy deserves the nod.
- mgriffen

i'm not using it against him, i'm saying that you can't just say "he won cups" as the reason he's a lock. and the Ottawa teams weren't nearly as stacked as the hawks teams, come on man.

Yeah so doesn't that degrade the meaning behind being inducted? Fans know who was great.
- mgriffen

Yes.

Yeah so doesn't that degrade the meaning behind being inducted? Fans know who was great.
- mgriffen

The fans do know, they live and breath every game in there home towns.

How many jerseys Of NHL players hang from the rafters that are NOT in the HOF??

Think about it.

i'm not using it against him, i'm saying that you can't just say "he won cups" as the reason he's a lock. and the Ottawa teams weren't nearly as stacked as the hawks teams, come on man.
- sensarmy_11

Hawks didn't start winning Cups until Hossa came. But yes, he was fortunate to join a young Hawks team with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook in their primes. Hossa was VERY important to those 3 Hawks Cup wins.

But I agree that number of Cups won can't be your sole criteria when judging greatness. Otherwise Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby and Darren McCarty would be greater hockey players than Marcel Dionne, Dale Hawerchuk and Gilbert Perrault were.12 Cups to Zero.

For me, the hall should be about greatness over longevity. Alfie was quite good for a long time, and very durable, but he was never a top five (ten?) player in the league. He doesn’t belong.

Especially when guys like Mogilny and Turgeon still aren’t in.

It’s a shame that the committee suffers from temporary insanity, and allows guys like Carbonneau, Gillies and Federko in. Carbonneau is maybe the weakest selection of all time. Except for the refs. Don’t even get me started on the fact that we have effing REFS in the hall. What an insult to the players
- AxlRose91

was andrechuk ever a top 5-10 player in the league, was carbonneau, was dino Ciccarelli, sundin, kariya, recchi, etc, etc, etc...…

if the criteria is "must have been a top 5-10 player in the league", then you can literally take out half the players who are in there.

I don't think there is a single player eligible right now, other than Iggy, who would have been considered a top 5-10 player in the league

The fans do know, they live and breath every game in there home towns.

How many jerseys Of NHL players hang from the rafters that are NOT in the HOF??

Think about it.
- Tee56

There's also players in the HHOF who don't have their jerseys retired. Like Sergei Fedorov. But that's another story (travesty).

The fans do know, they live and breath every game in there home towns.

How many jerseys Of NHL players hang from the rafters that are NOT in the HOF??

Think about it.
- Tee56

there are a few...…..Phillips jersey is retired in Ottawa, he'll obviously never be in the HHOF. some players numbers are retired because of what they meant to the team, not necessarily their production.....on and off the ice stuff.

to be fair though, there was a lot of debate among Ottawa fans as to whether or not his number should have been retired (I didn't think it should have been, but not overly bothered that it was)

Alfredsson has very good, maybe great, numbers. Had a lot of success internationally (96 World Cup Triple OT vs. Canada was the best game I ever saw live). And while I cant really explain, he just lacks "it." I'm not sure what "it" is, but there's just something about him that seems lacking.

If he gets in, I wouldn't be upset, but I think that he's one step below HHOF worthy. Just my 2 cents.
- jmatchett383

Friends got married that night. It was at a downtown restaurant - WITH NO TV!!!

We kept running down the street to watch a bit, then come back. Finally said "frank it" - told the groom what we were doing. He told us to come back as soon as it was over so he would know the score.

I will point out that it was the best game Sundin ever played - he was terrifying every time he stepped on the ice.

Alfie should be in.

HHOF has a weird fetish for longevity. The fact that he played 99% of his career for one team is also a big factor - no idea why, but it is.

And the thingy with throwing the stick pushes him over the edge.

Maybe not this year, but Alfie did enough to get into the HHOF.

For me, the hall should be about greatness over longevity. Alfie was quite good for a long time, and very durable, but he was never a top five (ten?) player in the league. He doesn’t belong.

Especially when guys like Mogilny and Turgeon still aren’t in.

It’s a shame that the committee suffers from temporary insanity, and allows guys like Carbonneau, Gillies and Federko in. Carbonneau is maybe the weakest selection of all time. Except for the refs. Don’t even get me started on the fact that we have effing REFS in the hall. What an insult to the players
- AxlRose91

Mike Gartner.

Was a good player for a very long time.

Was never a superstar, ever.

Hawks didn't start winning Cups until Hossa came. But yes, he was fortunate to join a young Hawks team with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook in their primes. Hossa was VERY important to those 3 Hawks Cup wins.

But I agree that number of Cups won can't be your sole criteria when judging greatness. Otherwise Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby and Darren McCarty would be greater hockey players than Marcel Dionne, Dale Hawerchuk and Gilbert Perrault were.12 Cups to Zero.
- gergeswillems

oh, I totally agree that he was important to that team.....but nobody ever looked at him and thought he was the best player on that team.....hell, he wasn't even in the top 3.

cups should never be a criteria for HHOF induction, same as superbowls or world series titles. the only sport where titles should count is basketball because it's the only major NA sports league where one great player can singlehandedly make his team win....see Cleveland Cavaliers

Mike Gartner.

Was a good player for a very long time.

Was never a superstar, ever.
- Atomic Wedgie

Agreed. But he scored 708 goals. That's why he's in. If I didn't know he scored that many goals, I wouldn't say he's a hall of famer. He was consistently good and he stayed healthy. But I never viewed him as a great player. Great skater though. Boy was he fast.

Mike Gartner.

Was a good player for a very long time.

Was never a superstar, ever.
- Atomic Wedgie

I mean, the guy is #7 ALL TIME in NHL goals...….kind of hard to say he shouldn't be there.

oh, I totally agree that he was important to that team.....but nobody ever looked at him and thought he was the best player on that team.....hell, he wasn't even in the top 3.

cups should never be a criteria for HHOF induction, same as superbowls or world series titles. the only sport where titles should count is basketball because it's the only major NA sports league where one great player can singlehandedly make his team win....see Cleveland Cavaliers
- sensarmy_11

I always had this football debate with my dad. Dan Marino is my all Time favourite QB and I'm not even a Dolphins fan. I just loved watching him play. He never won a Super Bowl and my Dad would always hold it against him. He never won the big one.

He knows full well that Marino never had a stud running back or a top defense. Or even a decent defense. But hey Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien won Super Bowls.

I support Alfredsson making the HOF but I also probably wouldn't put him in my top four eligibles this year (if I had a ballot).

Looking at just NHL players, he's got tough competition from Iginla, Mogilny, Joseph, Hossa, Doug Wilson, and arguably a few others.

There's also some long-neglected international players who deserve strong consideration. Firsov, Mikhailov, Holocek.

I always had this football debate with my dad. Dan Marino is my all Time favourite QB and I'm not even a Dolphins fan. I just loved watching him play. He never won a Super Bowl and my Dad would always hold it against him. He never won the big one.

He knows full well that Marino never had a stud running back or a top defense. Or even a decent defense. But hey Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler and Mark Rypien won Super Bowls.
- gergeswillems

same....I have a buddy who's a steelers fan, and he always argues that rothlesberger is a better QB than Peyton Manning (who's my favorite all-time) because he has more sb'S

same....I have a buddy who's a steelers fan, and he always argues that rothlesberger is a better QB than Peyton Manning (who's my favorite all-time) because he has more sb'S
- sensarmy_11

Now that's funny.

I mean, the guy is #7 ALL TIME in NHL goals...….kind of hard to say he shouldn't be there.
- sensarmy_11

Curtis Joseph is #7 ALL TIME in NHL wins.

See what I did there?

the only player who should be in the hall of fame is Sami Kapanen