Ok chunk I'll except part of your response , however JC record last year putting all excuses aside did not warrant a extension. Generally when a head coach is fired and a interim head coach is installed it's his chance to audition and earn a opportunity. His losing record alone should make everyone wonder why stan gave him a contract.

Just to further elaborate on my point , the teams rashinnoning was JC needed a off season , plus training camp and a few moves to provide a better team ok I'll except that , however his record this year is awful .

I'm all for promoting someone to the position but I think we can all agree we expect positive winning results.

But I respect your point
- Taylorst1

Water under the bridge now but I too would have preferred an interim head coach first to replace Q.

Even if it was still Colliton as the interim, it would have given administration the option to have him return to Rockford as head coach where he was doing pretty well.

On one hand, if Colliton was who Hawks brass wanted the whole time as permanent head coach, then they stayed committed to that pre-determined decision (love it or loathe it).

But on the other hand, being thrust in without an interm period was a pressure cooker for Colliton on many levels.

Following the footsteps of a legendary coach and coaching players who are his contemporaries (same age or even older), just to name a few.

With all that said, I remain patient with Collition and company to help be a part of the solution to elevate the team back to contender status again.

This isn't to say my patience isn't tried and runs short at times!

The Hammer since 2017 is showing the wear and tear of the other defenseman of the 3 cup era. He looked slower than slow in that Nashville sweep. He is not worth $5 mil. today which his current salary is. I wouldn't be surprised to see Jammer hang it up after this season and his contract is up. As far as Murphy, I see him as a top 4 defender. You are right he does not stand out, but he definitely can play against top 6 forwards.
- LAHawk

I would have to agree with your perspective on Murphy. When both are healthy, Murphy and de Haan form a pretty good shutdown pair.

Could they rival the Hjalmarsson-Oduya duo? Potentially, but again health is a major obstacle that may prevent this from happening.

Or how about keeping Leddy, Tuevo, Panarin, Danault. That is $22.5 million in AAV salary. Where does that money come from? Remember you need to at least dress 20 for a game.
- LAHawk

Thank you.

I'm not enamored by StanBo by any means but, if you look around the league every GM has had his misfires.

Poile in Nash? Didn't do to well with Hartman deal and he better hope that Shea Weber doesn't decide to retire early.

Sweeny in Boston? He signed David Backes as a FA and got 1 full season before he broke down.

Jarmo Kekäläinen in Columbus? I understand going for it but, he left himself with what, 2 draft picks in 2019 then couldn't re-sign any of his FAs.

Every GM is going to miss on something. You just hope they don't miss a lot.

Or how about keeping Leddy, Tuevo, Panarin, Danault. That is $22.5 million in AAV salary. Where does that money come from? Remember you need to at least dress 20 for a game.
- LAHawk

well if you extend PAN long term after year 2 im guessing its more like a 8 mil AAV. so were do you find 18.5 how about Seabrook SAAD and don't trade for MAtta and shaw?

I would have to agree with your perspective on Murphy. When both are healthy, Murphy and de Haan form a pretty good shutdown pair.

Could they rival the Hjalmarsson-Oduya duo? Potentially, but again health is a major obstacle that may prevent this from happening.
- AEL_Fox

You also have to look at what Hjalmarsson is right now vs what you have in Murphy. I love what Hjalmarsson brought as much as the next person, but he and Murphy give you about the same thing right now (with Murphy adding slightly more offense).

Sentimentality is great when you don't apply it to today.

I would have to agree with your perspective on Murphy. When both are healthy, Murphy and de Haan form a pretty good shutdown pair.

Could they rival the Hjalmarsson-Oduya duo? Potentially, but again health is a major obstacle that may prevent this from happening.
- AEL_Fox

Not even close.
Best that Murphy-deHaan would have been during the Cup years is 3rd pair.

You also have to look at what Hjalmarsson is right now vs what you have in Murphy. I love what Hjalmarsson brought as much as the next person, but he and Murphy give you about the same thing right now (with Murphy adding slightly more offense).

Sentimentality is great when you don't apply it to today.
- Chunk

Exactly. Very excellent point.

Great line about sentimentality, by the way!

MLB can play in AZ or FLA in the winter. Not to be a smart aleck but why do you say there is an expiration day on the NHL? (NBA already expired, in my last 20 years of sporadic viewing attempts)
- just69sayin

MLB would be insane to try to take on the NFL during the winter. There would be zero point zero people under 70 years old watching.

well if you extend PAN long term after year 2 im guessing its more like a 8 mil AAV. so were do you find 18.5 how about Seabrook SAAD and don't trade for MAtta and shaw?
- kmw4631

Saad was not on that team. Seabrook had a NTC. You still had Hossa playing. Matta and Shaw came 3 years hence. So now where do you find $18.5 mil?

I think some of the challenges are certain state governors who have imposed draconian rules and not followed the data but moved the goal post.

We should all remember lockdowns are unconstitutional, we take risks every day .
- Taylorst1

It s against my constitutional right the cry of the truly desperate ,it a 200 year old proclamation .Somewhat outdated I would say . Sure we take risk every day there are also many rules to try and mitigate those risk such as seatbelts speed limits not smoking gun laws in most civilized countries warning labels you know don't drink bleach . things you cannot take on a plane drunk driving laws not passing a stopped school bus should I go on .Being free is one thing being stupid is another .The U.S is failing miserably at controlling this virus and it starts at the top with Dumb and dumber and the fools and yes men that follow them .Put on a mask wash your hands and shut your pie hole for awhile .
You reap what you sew

Not even close.
Best that Murphy-deHaan would have been during the Cup years is 3rd pair.
- scottak

With equal ice time as Oduya and Jammer. Believe me, what the 4 defeseman did in that last Cup run was epic, you can argue it also ruined all 4 of them, that they never were the same.

Not even close.
Best that Murphy-deHaan would have been during the Cup years is 3rd pair.
- scottak

Agree, in the Cup years, Murphy-de Haan would be 3rd pair after Keith-Seabrook and Hjalmarsson-Oduya. Still, that would be a deep blueline.

It is a tall order for Murphy and de Haan to live up to what Hjalmarsson and Oduya were to the Cup versions of the Hawks 2nd D pair.

At the same time, they were not without flaws either. Hjalmarsson sometimes struggled moving the puck out consistently. Oduya was frustrating at times serving up pizzas.

I would be fine if the Hawks had a shutdown unit in the 2nd pair regardless of who that is comprised of and regardless of whether they match or eclipse Hjalmarsson and Oduya.

Not even close.
Best that Murphy-deHaan would have been during the Cup years is 3rd pair.
- scottak

I'm not debating the end result or the accolades, but I think the comparison is closer than you are alluding to. Murphy/de Haan may very well have been (likely would be) third pair during the cup years, but I don't think the difference in play/results would have been all that different than 4/27. None of these guys put up any noteworthy numbers, but de Haan and Murphy average slightly more. Defensively, they are both very strong as well (the Hawks defensive play suffered notably when either of these two were out in the past two years.).

It s against my constitutional right the cry of the truly desperate ,it a 200 year old proclamation .Somewhat outdated I would say . Sure we take risk every day there are also many rules to try and mitigate those risk such as seatbelts speed limits not smoking gun laws in most civilized countries warning labels you know don't drink bleach . things you cannot take on a plane drunk driving laws not passing a stopped school bus should I go on .Being free is one thing being stupid is another .The U.S is failing miserably at controlling this virus and it starts at the top with Dumb and dumber and the fools and yes men that follow them .Put on a mask wash your hands and shut your pie hole for awhile .
You reap what you sew
- oldduffman

Aw man. We were all doing so well ignoring that post...

Stan sucks, should of kept the builder Tallon who's teams haven't made the playoffs 8 out of the last 10 years, and just like the Hawks are in the play in round this year. He never would hamstring his team with big dollar long term contracts!!.SMH.

Aw man. We were all doing so well ignoring that post...
- Chunk

sorry ..

sorry ..
- oldduffman

No need to apologize. It's just that those things tend to die quick when everyone just ignores it. I'm guilty of the same thing. I just try to let things like that go and talk about hockey here. We actually have a cool topic to discuss thanks to Theo and some recent news. It's nice to keep that going. Cheers Duff!

With equal ice time as Oduya and Jammer. Believe me, what the 4 defeseman did in that last Cup run was epic, you can argue it also ruined all 4 of them, that they never were the same.
- LAHawk

I know Oduya played the last 3 games with an elbow tear and you're right, none were ever the same after that.

Saad was not on that team. Seabrook had a NTC. You still had Hossa playing. Matta and Shaw came 3 years hence. So now where do you find $18.5 mil?
- LAHawk

you do not give Seabs an ETC and you keep Leddy that 1.5 savings goes to PAN and you do not trade PAN for SAAD and you extend PAN 8 X 8. danult just starting making money now. TT contract is pretty reasonable you buyout Bickell and extend TT. you could have made it work the key would have been prioritizing PAN over SEAbs on the extension.

Jordan Hendry was mentioned on here a few blogs ago. Coincidentally there is a recent Athletic article about him describing his time on the 2010 Hawks. After tearing his ACL the following season he hung around on various North Ametican and Euro teams for a few seasons and has been retired for 5 years.

you do not give Seabs an ETC and you keep Leddy that 1.5 savings goes to PAN and you do not trade PAN for SAAD and you extend PAN 8 X 8. danult just starting making money now. TT contract is pretty reasonable you buyout Bickell and extend TT. you could have made it work the key would have been prioritizing PAN over SEAbs on the extension.
- kmw4631

They signed Seabrook to his extension before Panarin played his first game with Chicago. You can complain about the dollar amount, the term, etc. but to say to not sign Seabs to prioritize Panarin 2 years down the line when his original contract was up is kinda reaching I would say. Also what would buying out Bickell do? His salary equalled his cap hit, so you would still have to carry his $4.5 mil. salary on the books. $2.25 mil. for twice the remaining length of the contract so 4 years.

you do not give Seabs an ETC and you keep Leddy that 1.5 savings goes to PAN and you do not trade PAN for SAAD and you extend PAN 8 X 8. danult just starting making money now. TT contract is pretty reasonable you buyout Bickell and extend TT. you could have made it work the key would have been prioritizing PAN over SEAbs on the extension.
- kmw4631

Easy Peasy.

Here is a link to the 2016-17 roster. The one that got spanked by the Preds. Take a look and let us know who you move to pay Panarin 8 x 8.

https://www.hockeydb.com/...ons/teams/0000352017.html

Be sure to use cap friendly to do the math too.

Oh and also, did any one of us hockey genuises think at that time that Panarin could carry his own line or he was he more a product of Kane?

Easy Peasy.

Here is a link to the 2016-17 roster. The one that got spanked by the Preds. Take a look and let us know who you move to pay Panarin 8 x 8.

https://www.hockeydb.com/...ons/teams/0000352017.html

Be sure to use cap friendly to do the math too.

Oh and also, did any one of us hockey genuises think at that time that Panarin could carry his own line or he was he more a product of Kane?
- Rota's Rooter

C'mon Rota, it is Stan's fault. He should never have convinced Panarin to sign with the Hawks in the first place.

C'mon Rota, it is Stan's fault. He should never have convinced Panarin to sign with the Hawks in the first place.

- LAHawk

Yea you're right. Damn it Stanley! Blow up that Euro scouting staff if the best you can do is Panarin, Kahun, Kubalik, Kempny, Ruuta.

Sorry guys. I can usually endure the simplistic, revisionist theories here but, the slow walk out of stay-at-home is getting to me.

I saw someone said they're playing rec hockey again in Indiana. I'm hoping that we'll still start up our Friday Night Rat games at some point. I gotta let off some steam.

Water under the bridge now but I too would have preferred an interim head coach first to replace Q.

Even if it was still Colliton as the interim, it would have given administration the option to have him return to Rockford as head coach where he was doing pretty well.

On one hand, if Colliton was who Hawks brass wanted the whole time as permanent head coach, then they stayed committed to that pre-determined decision (love it or loathe it).

But on the other hand, being thrust in without an interm period was a pressure cooker for Colliton on many levels.

Following the footsteps of a legendary coach and coaching players who are his contemporaries (same age or even older), just to name a few.

With all that said, I remain patient with Collition and company to help be a part of the solution to elevate the team back to contender status again.

This isn't to say my patience isn't tried and runs short at times!
- AEL_Fox

I hear everyone's point and we all have our strong feelings about them and I completely understand and respect .

You summed up my point here. I m.j didn't know beaudin was called up lol my fault on that .
I agree we will never know fully if JC was always stand guy or if he is a place holder.

I agree JC would serve the organization better by going back to Rockford and developing these young kids .

My biggest gripe is coach q deserved a much better handling of his firing, stan should have let him go the summer prior , if he was on this ice. I still believe if he had as much talent as the team has no their record would be better.