In all sincerity, I'd take Botts back in a heartbeat. I think it's fair to say he was an asset for the Penguins. Plus, we just lost Billy G.
- madmike71

Only thing is i think Karmanos took the head Lieutenant spot so I’m not sure there’s a place for Botts here anymore. I think it’s interesting to look at who was the #2 while the Penguins were doing what. Fitzgerald was #2 under Shero while the Pens where in the midst of their doldrums and was a holdover into the first year of Rutherford. Pens picked a very specific direction to go with skill and speed after Fitzgerald got usurped by Botts at the Phil Kessel trade draft and left the organization. Won two cups and then took a left turn into #gritness when Botts went to Buffalo and Billy G stepped into the right hand spot next to Rutherford. Billy G leaves and we go back to skill and speed under Karmanos who’s been a stats guy since Carolina under Rutherford.

Obviously I don’t know anything about the how the power structure works in the Penguins’ org, but I think there’s enough there to speculate that Rutherford delegates A LOT of responsibility to his first lieutenant and the position is important to team construction vision.

Only thing is i think Karmanos took the head Lieutenant spot so I’m not sure there’s a place for Botts here anymore. I think it’s interesting to look at who was the #2 while the Penguins were doing what. Fitzgerald was #2 under Shero while the Pens where in the midst of their doldrums and was a holdover into the first year of Rutherford. Pens picked a very specific direction to go with skill and speed after Fitzgerald got usurped by Botts at the Phil Kessel trade draft and left the organization. Won two cups and then took a left turn into #gritness when Botts went to Buffalo and Billy G stepped into the right hand spot next to Rutherford. Billy G leaves and we go back to skill and speed under Karmanos who’s been a stats guy since Carolina under Rutherford.

Obviously I don’t know anything about the how the power structure works in the Penguins’ org, but I think there’s enough there to speculate that Rutherford delegates A LOT of responsibility to his first lieutenant and the position is important to team construction vision.
- Victoro311

Good analysis and it seems like it could be pretty accurate.

I want to know who was so gung ho about JJ and to a lesser extent Tanev.

Not sure if anyone read Nesbitt's article in the Athletic ranking the ten worst free agent signings in the Pittsburgh sports history, but it was definitely interesting. I don't know enough about Pittsburgh sports as a whole to judge, but I think he's way off on the Penguins.

3) Rob Scuderi
5) Zigmund Palffy
8) Jack Johnson

The Palffy one doesn't belong there at all. He rationale was also flawed. He focused on the fact he left to go back home and retired early. His contract didn't hurt the Pens. It was disappointing for him to go, but it was not a bad signing and definitely shouldn't be higher than Johnson.

I also think Johnson's is worse than Scuderi. Scuderi was definitely a blight on this team and the cap space, but at least they were able to pawn him off. Right now the best-case scenario for the league is the cap staying the same, but there's a chance it goes down. In either of those scenarios there's zero chance a team will take him which will absolutely impact the Pens' ability to re-sign key FAs.

Not sure if anyone read Nesbitt's article in the Athletic ranking the ten worst free agent signings in the Pittsburgh sports history, but it was definitely interesting. I don't know enough about Pittsburgh sports as a whole to judge, but I think he's way off on the Penguins.

3) Rob Scuderi
5) Zigmund Palffy
8) Jack Johnson

The Palffy one doesn't belong there at all. He rationale was also flawed. He focused on the fact he left to go back home and retired early. His contract didn't hurt the Pens. It was disappointing for him to go, but it was not a bad signing and definitely shouldn't be higher than Johnson.

I also think Johnson's is worse than Scuderi. Scuderi was definitely a blight on this team and the cap space, but at least they were able to pawn him off. Right now the best-case scenario for the league is the cap staying the same, but there's a chance it goes down. In either of those scenarios there's zero chance a team will take him which will absolutely impact the Pens' ability to re-sign key FAs.
- Rinosaur

Well, we're only in year 2 and most of the media felt JJ rebounded. He actually was fine.....playing 3rd pair with Marino. And they largely excuse him for being too far up the line-up with Letang, which to an extent is fair.

(And before someone thinks I'm defending JJ, I'm not, just how media perceives him.)

But yeah, I see that signing climbing the list the longer he stays.

Derek Bell had to be number 1 though, that was embarrassing what he did to the Pirates.

Not sure if anyone read Nesbitt's article in the Athletic ranking the ten worst free agent signings in the Pittsburgh sports history, but it was definitely interesting. I don't know enough about Pittsburgh sports as a whole to judge, but I think he's way off on the Penguins.

3) Rob Scuderi
5) Zigmund Palffy
8) Jack Johnson

The Palffy one doesn't belong there at all. He rationale was also flawed. He focused on the fact he left to go back home and retired early. His contract didn't hurt the Pens. It was disappointing for him to go, but it was not a bad signing and definitely shouldn't be higher than Johnson.

I also think Johnson's is worse than Scuderi. Scuderi was definitely a blight on this team and the cap space, but at least they were able to pawn him off. Right now the best-case scenario for the league is the cap staying the same, but there's a chance it goes down. In either of those scenarios there's zero chance a team will take him which will absolutely impact the Pens' ability to re-sign key FAs.
- Rinosaur

I feel as though Matt Hunwick deserves a spot over Scuderi and JJ as worst FA signing.

Not sure if anyone read Nesbitt's article in the Athletic ranking the ten worst free agent signings in the Pittsburgh sports history, but it was definitely interesting. I don't know enough about Pittsburgh sports as a whole to judge, but I think he's way off on the Penguins.

3) Rob Scuderi
5) Zigmund Palffy
8) Jack Johnson

The Palffy one doesn't belong there at all. He rationale was also flawed. He focused on the fact he left to go back home and retired early. His contract didn't hurt the Pens. It was disappointing for him to go, but it was not a bad signing and definitely shouldn't be higher than Johnson.

I also think Johnson's is worse than Scuderi. Scuderi was definitely a blight on this team and the cap space, but at least they were able to pawn him off. Right now the best-case scenario for the league is the cap staying the same, but there's a chance it goes down. In either of those scenarios there's zero chance a team will take him which will absolutely impact the Pens' ability to re-sign key FAs.
- Rinosaur

Damn. I get Ladarious Green was a busy for us, but is a contract with $5 mil AAV in the NFL where the cap is huge, money is rarely guaranteed, and dead cap is easy to bury, worth the number 2 all time worst contract in Pittsburgh Sports history?

Not sure if anyone read Nesbitt's article in the Athletic ranking the ten worst free agent signings in the Pittsburgh sports history, but it was definitely interesting. I don't know enough about Pittsburgh sports as a whole to judge, but I think he's way off on the Penguins.

3) Rob Scuderi
5) Zigmund Palffy
8) Jack Johnson

The Palffy one doesn't belong there at all. He rationale was also flawed. He focused on the fact he left to go back home and retired early. His contract didn't hurt the Pens. It was disappointing for him to go, but it was not a bad signing and definitely shouldn't be higher than Johnson.

I also think Johnson's is worse than Scuderi. Scuderi was definitely a blight on this team and the cap space, but at least they were able to pawn him off. Right now the best-case scenario for the league is the cap staying the same, but there's a chance it goes down. In either of those scenarios there's zero chance a team will take him which will absolutely impact the Pens' ability to re-sign key FAs.
- Rinosaur

At the time the Palffy signing was solid. Hell he had 42 points in 42 games but he retired because the Pens were a dumpster fire of an organization that year lol

I feel as though Matt Hunwick deserves a spot over Scuderi and JJ as worst FA signing.
- 123Kid

Meh - his contract was relatively small, relatively short, and I don't think it had any trade restrictions. Didn't we also play him on his off-side? Or did it just look that way because he looked so lost all the time?

Meh - his contract was relatively small, relatively short, and I don't think it had any trade restrictions. Didn't we also play him on his off-side? Or did it just look that way because he looked so lost all the time?
- Hockey66

Not to mention Hunwick is a better hockey player than Jack Johnson.

Not to mention Hunwick is a better hockey player than Jack Johnson.
- j.boyd919

Let's not get crazy now...

At the time the Palffy signing was solid. Hell he had 42 points in 42 games but he retired because the Pens were a dumpster fire of an organization that year lol
- j.boyd919

The piece made note that some of these were good in theory. It only judged them based on how they turned out. Otherwise, Greene wouldn’t have made the list. That was a very savvy signing at the time for Colbert.

I feel as though Matt Hunwick deserves a spot over Scuderi and JJ as worst FA signing.
- 123Kid

He made honorable mention. Hunwick was strange in that he was never really relevant enough to get that type of contract.

Pittsburgh has 3 pro teams that don't make a lot of splashy moves so it wasn't going to be a great list for or against.

He made honorable mention. Hunwick was strange in that he was never really relevant enough to get that type of contract.

Pittsburgh has 3 pro teams that don't make a lot of splashy moves so it wasn't going to be a great list for or against.
- Tojo.

Classic JR. He goes bargain bin shopping looking for an "overlooked" diamond-in-the-rough, but then way overpays, totally negating the goal of bargain bin shopping. So far, very few have turned into diamonds; most have just been rocks with blindingly shiny contracts.

Only thing is i think Karmanos took the head Lieutenant spot so I’m not sure there’s a place for Botts here anymore. I think it’s interesting to look at who was the #2 while the Penguins were doing what. Fitzgerald was #2 under Shero while the Pens where in the midst of their doldrums and was a holdover into the first year of Rutherford. Pens picked a very specific direction to go with skill and speed after Fitzgerald got usurped by Botts at the Phil Kessel trade draft and left the organization. Won two cups and then took a left turn into #gritness when Botts went to Buffalo and Billy G stepped into the right hand spot next to Rutherford. Billy G leaves and we go back to skill and speed under Karmanos who’s been a stats guy since Carolina under Rutherford.

Obviously I don’t know anything about the how the power structure works in the Penguins’ org, but I think there’s enough there to speculate that Rutherford delegates A LOT of responsibility to his first lieutenant and the position is important to team construction vision.
- Victoro311

I don't really believe there's a true line of succession with the Pens. Especially since Rutherford doesn't seem to be going anywhere. If they believe Botts can be a good asset in the talent evaluation department, they should bring him back. JMO.

I don't really believe there's a true line of succession with the Pens. Especially since Rutherford doesn't seem to be going anywhere. If they believe Botts can be a good asset in the talent evaluation department, they should bring him back. JMO.
- madmike71

My point was more so that the position Botts is qualified for is filled by Karmanos and he’d have to take a lesser role to come back to the org. I guess we could invent a new position for him and make it equal to Karmanos, but that could ruffle feathers.

Let's not get crazy now...
- Hockey66

I would 100% rather have Hunwick in the lineup than JJ, 100% of the time. JJ is legitimately one of the worst dmen in the league.

I think the best way to judge the Scuderi and JJ signings it to consider how good they were just before the deals were made.

Scuderi had recently played on an LA team that won the Cup. While he was definitely over the hill he was not terrible yet. After his foot got injured his play nosedived. While it was a bad signing, particularly due to its length, it was at least a little understandable at the time.

JJ had just been benched for multiple playoff games (if I remember correctly) by Torts. In the spat that happened between Torts and Rutherford Rutherford implied that it was a personality conflict. No coach is insane and stupid enough to bench an effective player in the playoffs over a personality conflict, not even Torts. JJ was horrible on a one and done playoff team before his contract with the Pens was even drafted. The JJ contract was the worst in Penguins history, without question. If the cap goes down it will have a crippling effect on the team.